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Dog or Coyote?

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  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    Tarponator wrote: »
    The same way you build any pen. Just different materials and costs.

    But bullets are cheaper and rednecks love to kill stuff, so here we are.

    Bigot much?
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    After all wildlife on earth is extinct? Wow, you are a drama queen. And next time you sit down to a nice meal, give a little thanks to the "redneck" that grew the fresh produce or raised the cut of meat that you and your family enjoys.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Bigot much?

    Not really, just responding in-kind to "pavement pounders".

    I didn't start it, but I'll play that game if you want.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    12bhunting wrote: »
    After all wildlife on earth is extinct? Wow, you are a drama queen. And next time you sit down to a nice meal, give a little thanks to the "redneck" that grew the fresh produce or raised the cut of meat that you and your family enjoys.

    Drama queen or just informed?

    PopExtGraph.jpg

    And by that logic the next time you turn on a personal computer you can thank me. But really, you don't need to because you paid for it. Just like I paid for that produce or meat.

    You're welcome.
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Drama queen or just informed?

    PopExtGraph.jpg

    And by that logic the next time you turn on a personal computer you can thank me. But really, you don't need to because you paid for it. Just like I paid for that produce or meat.

    You're welcome.

    Just like the people who paid for their land and wish to keep coyote from killing their animals they paid for?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Not like that at all, actually, except perhaps to explain the parallel trending in the graph I posted.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    there is a reason God made men with rifles
    169304.GIF
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Not like that at all, actually, except perhaps to explain the parallel trending in the graph I posted.

    So killing nuisance coyote will lead to their extinction? Killing nuisance hogs does not seem to lower the population any, but I guess coyote is different? I guess using your logic the graphs showing the red snapper are close to extinction is correct as well? At first I thought you were just trolling. But it is apparent you are truly ignorant on this subject.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    In the order you raised them....

    Did I say it would lead to their extinction? Of course not, but that is kind of how man-made extinctions work...by killing them until there are no more to kill.

    What I did do is ask a question, which you didn't answer, I might add, and I'm sorry if you're too shortsighted to see the trend in that graph and where it will almost certainly lead unless those trends become less exponential. You know, like not killing off animals and species because they are a nuisance or a drain on profits or simply live on land that we find more useful for development or agriculture.

    Nobody except you said anything about red snapper, and applying my logic to the snapper question is ridiculous.

    I'm hardly trolling nor ignorant, but the fact that you are unable to answer any of my questions is very telling.

    You see, killing animals is much easier than having to defend your shortsighted position from more intelligent and informed ones.

    Funny how that works, isn't it?
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    In the order you raised them....

    Did I say it would lead to their extinction? Of course not. I asked a question, which you didn't answer, I might add, and I'm sorry if you're too shortsighted to see the trend in that graph and where it will almost certainly lead unless those trends become less exponential. You know, like not killing off animals and species because they are a nuisance or a drain on profits.

    Nobody except you said anything about red snapper, and applying my logic to the snapper question is ridiculous.

    I'm hardly trolling, but the fact that you are unable to answer any of my questions is very telling.

    You see, killing animals is much easier than having to defend your shortsighted position from more intelligent and informed ones.

    Funny how that works, isn't it?

    Killing animals is easier? Apparently you have never shot a coyote while the nasty **** is running. I promise you it's not easy. But if you lead him just right with the crosshairs you can make them roll a good 10 feet.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Yes, it's far easier, but not as quite easy as making you change the topic when faced with some facts.

    Run along now and kill some more deer. They need their population thinned, or so I'm told. Why is that? Because we killed off their natural predators.

    Funny how that works, isn't it?

    The lesson is right there for you to learn it, if you'd only open your eyes.

    But I know, it's hard. For some. Particularly those who enjoy hunting and killing.

    Know anyone like that?
  • lbudlbud Posts: 1,014 Officer
    Hard to believe a simple question spawned all this bull****!!!
    Live while You're breathing! It's Your only chance.....:grin
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Yes, it's far easier, but not as quite easy as making you change the topic when faced with some facts.

    Run along now and kill some more deer. They need their population thinned, or so I'm told. Why is that? Because we killed off their natural predators.

    Funny how that works, isn't it?

    The lesson is right there for you to learn it, if you'd only open your eyes.

    But I know, it's hard. For some. Particularly those who enjoy hunting and killing.

    Know anyone like that?

    For those that enjoy hunting and killing? That pretty much describes me.
    I raise hogs, turkeys, chickens, rabbits and goats. I also hunt and kill about 12 deer every year. This provides my family with meat that is not pumped up with steroids and other junk that doesn't belong in animals. I also can veggies from the garden twice a month so my family can enjoy their meals without any worry of pesticides. I used what the Lord has supplied me with. If that bothers you so be it.

    As far as "the facts", you posted a graph that was not related to coyote at all lol. The rest of your posts were drama queen b.s. mixed in with pathetic jabs at rednecks. I guess you have the right to be an attention ****. So by all means keep posting your fairytales. You know, the ones where meat comes from the grocery store and peaches grow in the can.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Yes, I know it describes you. That's why I wrote it that way in my rhetorical question

    And the only reason I used that language was in response to the "pathetic jab" at "pavement pounders". You see, I never take off the gloves first, but I'm certainly not afraid to throw punches once their off. It's only fair, right?

    Moving on.... I'm not an attention ****, not even close, but I do enjoy pointing out the folly of man, particularly when it is personified in this forum...and unlike some, I don't duck questions even if they are difficult. To the contrary, I will continue to take on all comers and answer all your silly little questions while pointing out all the holes in your shortsighted logic. So please do keep them coming.

    Lastly, the only one with the fairy tale is the one who ignores facts like the graph I posted....or changes the topic when faced with them.

    Do you know the story of the grey wolf?

    HINT: It's a trap and you'd be better of ignoring that question too.

    Have a nice day....Mike
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    The graph you posted shows what information on coyote? Coyote is not rare or endangered. And like wild hogs they are reproducing at an unbelievable rate. They are also expanding there territories. You really want to get into facts?




    Not a graph, just info I googled like yourself.

    Leg-hold traps are not only cruel and inhumane for coyotes, but may also injure other wildlife, pets, or even children. **** Randall
    For more than a century, human beings have waged a war on coyotes, killing them with poison, traps, guns, hunting dogs, and a variety of other cruel coyote killing methods.

    Nonetheless, the wary nature of coyotes and their remarkable adaptability has allowed them to quadruple their range throughout North America.

    As a result, communities across the country are encountering coyotes and experiencing conflicts that they have never had to face before. The presence of coyotes in a community can be alarming to those who are not used to living with them.

    Occasional attacks by coyotes on pets and coyote aggression toward people (although rare) can trigger alarm from people who fear for the safety of their pets and children. To allay this, communities may feel they need to initiate wide scale programs to trap and kill coyotes.

    These killing programs don't work and are inhumane. Better solutions exist.

    What does work: Techniques to solve coyote conflicts »

    Why don't coyote-killing programs work?
    They are ineffective.
    It is extremely difficult to ensure that the problem-causing coyote(s) will be the one(s) located and killed

    Coyotes removed from an area will quickly be replaced by others. Coyote pairs hold territories, which leaves single coyotes ("floaters") constantly looking for new places to call home.
    If attractants in a neighborhood are not removed (e.g., pet food, garbage, etc.) new coyotes in an area can quickly become "nuisance" coyotes.
    They won't reduce coyote populations.
    Research suggests that when aggressively controlled, coyotes can increase their reproductive rate by breeding at an earlier age and having larger litters, with a higher survival rate among young. This allows coyote populations to quickly bounce back, even when as much as 70 percent of their numbers are removed.
    It is nearly impossible to completely eradicate coyotes from an area. Despite bounties and large-scale efforts to kill coyotes over the last 100 years, coyotes have in fact expanded their range throughout the U.S. and Canada tremendously. One study even found that killing 75 percent of a coyote population every year for 50 years would still not exterminate the population.
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    No how about you run along and makes us some sandwiches.
  • Baits OutBaits Out Posts: 12,331 AG
    Moving target practice IMHO.

    A southeast Florida laid back beach bum and volunteer bikini assessor who lives on island time. 
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,623 Admiral
    12bhunting wrote: »
    The graph you posted shows what information on coyote? Coyote is not rare or endangered. And like wild hogs they are reproducing at an unbelievable rate. They are also expanding there territories. You really want to get into facts?




    ​Not a graph, just info I googled like yourself.

    Leg-hold traps are not only cruel and inhumane for coyotes, but may also injure other wildlife, pets, or even children. **** Randall
    For more than a century, human beings have waged a war on coyotes, killing them with poison, traps, guns, hunting dogs, and a variety of other cruel coyote killing methods.

    Nonetheless, the wary nature of coyotes and their remarkable adaptability has allowed them to quadruple their range throughout North America.

    As a result, communities across the country are encountering coyotes and experiencing conflicts that they have never had to face before. The presence of coyotes in a community can be alarming to those who are not used to living with them.

    Occasional attacks by coyotes on pets and coyote aggression toward people (although rare) can trigger alarm from people who fear for the safety of their pets and children. To allay this, communities may feel they need to initiate wide scale programs to trap and kill coyotes.

    These killing programs don't work and are inhumane. Better solutions exist.

    What does work: Techniques to solve coyote conflicts »

    Why don't coyote-killing programs work?
    They are ineffective.
    It is extremely difficult to ensure that the problem-causing coyote(s) will be the one(s) located and killed

    Coyotes removed from an area will quickly be replaced by others. Coyote pairs hold territories, which leaves single coyotes ("floaters") constantly looking for new places to call home.
    If attractants in a neighborhood are not removed (e.g., pet food, garbage, etc.) new coyotes in an area can quickly become "nuisance" coyotes.
    They won't reduce coyote populations.
    Research suggests that when aggressively controlled, coyotes can increase their reproductive rate by breeding at an earlier age and having larger litters, with a higher survival rate among young. This allows coyote populations to quickly bounce back, even when as much as 70 percent of their numbers are removed.
    It is nearly impossible to completely eradicate coyotes from an area. Despite bounties and large-scale efforts to kill coyotes over the last 100 years, coyotes have in fact expanded their range throughout the U.S. and Canada tremendously. One study even found that killing 75 percent of a coyote population every year for 50 years would still not exterminate the population.


    Melania is that you, or did you write Wild Neighbors?
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Google foo. **** near every site said the same. This one made it easy to copy and paste.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    12bhunting wrote: »
    The graph you posted shows what information on coyote? Coyote is not rare or endangered. And like wild hogs they are reproducing at an unbelievable rate. They are also expanding there territories. You really want to get into facts?

    No, of course it doesn't. Are you dense?

    And, yes, let's get into some facts, shall we?

    12bhunting wrote:
    Not a graph, just info I googled like yourself.

    Leg-hold traps are not only cruel and inhumane for coyotes, but may also injure other wildlife, pets, or even children. **** Randall
    For more than a century, human beings have waged a war on coyotes, killing them with poison, traps, guns, hunting dogs, and a variety of other cruel coyote killing methods.

    Nonetheless, the wary nature of coyotes and their remarkable adaptability has allowed them to quadruple their range throughout North America.

    As a result, communities across the country are encountering coyotes and experiencing conflicts that they have never had to face before. The presence of coyotes in a community can be alarming to those who are not used to living with them.

    Occasional attacks by coyotes on pets and coyote aggression toward people (although rare) can trigger alarm from people who fear for the safety of their pets and children. To allay this, communities may feel they need to initiate wide scale programs to trap and kill coyotes.

    These killing programs don't work and are inhumane. Better solutions exist.

    What does work: Techniques to solve coyote conflicts »

    Why don't coyote-killing programs work?
    They are ineffective.
    It is extremely difficult to ensure that the problem-causing coyote(s) will be the one(s) located and killed

    Coyotes removed from an area will quickly be replaced by others. Coyote pairs hold territories, which leaves single coyotes ("floaters") constantly looking for new places to call home.
    If attractants in a neighborhood are not removed (e.g., pet food, garbage, etc.) new coyotes in an area can quickly become "nuisance" coyotes.
    They won't reduce coyote populations.
    Research suggests that when aggressively controlled, coyotes can increase their reproductive rate by breeding at an earlier age and having larger litters, with a higher survival rate among young. This allows coyote populations to quickly bounce back, even when as much as 70 percent of their numbers are removed.
    It is nearly impossible to completely eradicate coyotes from an area. Despite bounties and large-scale efforts to kill coyotes over the last 100 years, coyotes have in fact expanded their range throughout the U.S. and Canada tremendously. One study even found that killing 75 percent of a coyote population every year for 50 years would still not exterminate the population.

    I'm sure they said the same thing about the grey wolf....you know, one of the natural predators of the coyote. Do you know that story, or do you wish to ignore that question again?

    And here's the zinger: If killing them is so ineffective, why do so many "hunters" kill them for nothing other than to satisfy their blood lust, apparently?

    And, lastly, if killing them is so ineffective, then why don't we simply look for other solutions to the problem, like building fences to keep them out?

    Could it be that rednecks simply like killing stuff, despite "facts" that say their efforts are ineffective?
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Clearly, you have a problem with things being killed. So does the rancher whose calf is being used for a tug-o- war game by a couple of coyotes. Not too hard to identify the problem animal and take care of it when you see that. Simple and effective.

    Since you brought it up, when was the last time a wild grey wolf lived in FL?
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    No, of course it doesn't. Are you dense?

    And, yes, let's get into some facts, shall we?




    I'm sure they said the same thing about the grey wolf....you know, one of the natural predators of the coyote. Do you know that story, or do you wish to ignore that question again?

    And here's the zinger: If killing them is so ineffective, why do so many "hunters" kill them for nothing other than to satisfy their blood lust, apparently?

    And, lastly, if killing them is so ineffective, then why don't we simply look for other solutions to the problem, like building fences to keep them out?

    Could it be that rednecks simply like killing stuff, despite "facts" that say their efforts are ineffective?

    You still running off with more of your b.s.? Where are my sandwiches?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    You still avoiding the tough questions?

    If not, please allow me to restate them:

    I'm sure they said the same thing about the grey wolf....you know, one of the natural predators of the coyote. Do you know that story, or do you wish to ignore that question again?

    And here's the zinger: If killing them is so ineffective, why do so many "hunters" kill them for nothing other than to satisfy their blood lust, apparently?

    And, lastly, if killing them is so ineffective, then why don't we simply look for other solutions to the problem, like building fences to keep them out?

    Could it be that rednecks simply like killing stuff, despite "facts" that say their efforts are ineffective?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    Clearly, you have a problem with things being killed. So does the rancher whose calf is being used for a tug-o- war game by a couple of coyotes. Not too hard to identify the problem animal and take care of it when you see that. Simple and effective.

    Since you brought it up, when was the last time a wild grey wolf lived in FL?


    We're not talking about killing coyotes who are involved in a tug of war. Of course, I can understand killing the coyote in that circumstance. But that's not what anyone is talking about, except you, apparently.

    I have no idea when the last time a grey wolf lived in Florida. So what?

    And yes, I do have a problem with killing wildlife for the sake of killing it. Don't you?
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    You still avoiding the tough questions?

    If not, please allow me to restate them:

    I'm sure they said the same thing about the grey wolf....you know, one of the natural predators of the coyote. Do you know that story, or do you wish to ignore that question again?

    And here's the zinger: If killing them is so ineffective, why do so many "hunters" kill them for nothing other than to satisfy their blood lust, apparently?

    And, lastly, if killing them is so ineffective, then why don't we simply look for other solutions to the problem, like building fences to keep them out?

    Could it be that rednecks simply like killing stuff, despite "facts" that say their efforts are ineffective?

    Avoiding the tough questions? Wow you are grasping for straws here. Now we are going from coyote to grey wolves? You seem to be having a hard time keeping the thread on tract. You know this one, the one where we were discussing coyotes. You seem to be really having a hard time keeping up here. You started out trolling half *** decent, but then you just went downhill and are looking very foolish. You ask questions yet no answers would satisfy you because you believe we should let them do as they wish, and a man's livelihood or the future of NATIVE animals be damned. But hey you just keep on trolling, I do enjoy your foolish entertainment.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Yes, we are going from coyotes to grey wolves. Please try and keep up. Since you seem to want to continue to ignore it, let me ask and answer the question and teach you a little lesson...

    The reason I brought up the grey wolf is twofold. First, it's an example of a very similar predator that was hunted to near extinction, and, second, the result of that is a "problem" that's very near to any deer hunter's heart -- it's the precise reason there are so many deer and they are considered a nuisance by many, and, to bring us full circle, not unlike the coyote in that regard.

    You see, man has a long history of imposing our will on nature only to have unintended consequences, including but not limited to the coyote problem which was the subject of this thread.

    So at what point do we realize that we should stop destroying nature and taking the easy way out, and instead look for less damaging solutions (not unlike the one that I suggested)?

    Do you get it yet...or do I need to break out the crayolas and speak in single syllable words so even an uneducated redneck could understand?

    And I think you meant "track" not "tract"...and I overestimated your ability to look beyond the front sight of your rifle.
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    I'm not ignoring it at all. I have posted all the info a man needs on coyote populations. Yet you seem to be in your own fairy tale about how man is bad, and animals should be considered above us. Then you switch to a different animal and continue your foolishness. So if I go with your way of thinking, we should embrace the wild hogs population, carp in the waterways as well as the pythons in the everglades? Where does your PETA fantasy end? Hehe an uneducated redneck has more common sense than you, that's gotta hurt a little..
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Who said man is bad, except for you? I'm simply suggesting we should try to do better or suffer the consequences.

    And nobody is suggesting we embrace any of those things you suggest or put them above man. I'm only suggesting we don't kill things for the sake of killing things.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

    Because, of course, you enjoy killing things. Either that or you never graduated high school. Maybe both.

    Which is cool, I guess. Your right to be a bloodthirsty redneck is protected by law, for now. But let's just be honest about it, shall we?

    Moving past that, you might consider going back to your normal pastime, that is to say killing the local wildlife. Because shooting a defenseless animal seems to be much more your speed than intelligently discussing topics like this.

    Lastly, my 9 year old nephew has more common sense than you do, and he also knows to capitalize Everglades and to use one period to end a sentence. I know, elementary school was tough, but please try harder.

    Thanks.
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 10,808 AG
    We kill trillions of mosquitoes every year.

    I don't hear anyone crying about them.

    Are y'all bigoted against insects?

    Why is one species considered OK to murder but another is sacred?

    Now excuse me. It's lunch time. I'm gotta wok my neighbor's dog.
    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • 12bhunting12bhunting Posts: 291 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Who said man is bad, except for you? I'm simply suggesting we should try to do better or suffer the consequences.

    And nobody is suggesting we embrace any of those things you suggest or put them above man. I'm only suggesting we don't kill things for the sake of killing things.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

    Because, of course, you enjoy killing things. Either that or you never graduated high school. Maybe both.

    Which is cool, I guess. Your right to be a bloodthirsty redneck is protected by law, for now. But let's just be honest about it, shall we?

    Moving past that, you might consider going back to your normal pastime, that is to say killing the local wildlife. Because shooting a defenseless animal seems to be much more your speed than intelligently discussing topics like this.

    Lastly, my 9 year old nephew has more common sense than you do, and he also knows to capitalize Everglades and to use one period to end a sentence. I know, elementary school was tough, but please try harder.

    Thanks.


    You keep trying to insult me, but it just makes you look like a fool. Then you resort to grammar, which really shows your grasping for a lifeline. Now why don't you skip all this foolishness and make sandwiches like you were told to do?

    Tell you what, if you are anywhere around Tallahassee I will shut down my current project and we can meet in person. I would love to buy you lunch and finish the discussion.
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