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Luv2Yak
Posts: 944 Officer
FWC Red Drum "Survey Says..."
Luv2Yak
Posts: 944 Officer
If you’re tired of complaints about FWC reducing the redfish daily bag limit in Florida’s Northwest Red Drum Management Zone then you may well stop reading here.
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Attached to this post is FWC’s summary of its 2016 Red Drum Stakeholder Engagement Survey in its entirety. Much of that which is revealed by these survey results directly contradicts FWC’s rationale for lowering the redfish bag limit.
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In my opinion, FWC made a bad decision. “Bad” because, throughout the process, FWC never had/never used any recent scientific data, findings, etc. to support its’ decision. “Bad” because, based on recent personal experience, as well as those of others, conventional wisdom has been saying, “the Red Drum fishery in the NW Management Zone (other than perhaps the Apalachicola Bay) is okay.”
[Note: given the environmental plight of Apalachicola Bay (collapse of the oyster industry as an indicator), it came as no surprise to me that some in that area began expressing concerns about redfish specifically in that area.]
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Information as provided by/from FWC:
Total survey respondents 8,311
NW Mgmt. Zone respondents 3,148 (the highest number of all mgmt. zones)
For this survey, the NW Mgmt. Zone was sub-divided as follows:
• Panhandle (Escambia through Ochlockonee Bay in Wakulla) 1,660
• Big Bend (Apalachee Bay in Wakulla through Pasco) 1,488
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Where to begin? Perhaps at the end…
“In the past year, stakeholders have expressed concerns that red drum populations have declined in parts of the Panhandle since 2013, the final year of data included in the most recent stock assessment.”
- from FWC news release 9/8/2016
“Which of the following have you noticed in your area in the past two (2) years?”
Survey (Panhandle segment) says,…
• Fewer small red drum 7% Fewer large red drum 8% Fewer red drum 21%
• More small red drum 26% More large red drum 30% More red drum 35%
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“…stakeholders have asked the Commission to modify the management of this fishery.”
- from Memorandum, “Draft Rule – Red Drum”, J. McCawley to FWC Commissioners, 6/23/16
“Commissioner Roberts commented that all of the stakeholders he talked to are in agreement on the reduction in the bag limit.”
- from Minutes, FWC Commission Meeting June 2016 Eastpoint, FL p.14
"all of the stakeholders"? Evidently Commissioner Roberts didn't bother to read the results of FWC's own stakeholder survey:
Survey says…
• 33% (a minority of 1/3) of Panhandle anglers would support lowering the bag limit in the Panhandle
• 27% (a minority of slightly more than 1/4) of Big Bend anglers would support lowering the bag limit in the Big Bend
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Also from the Survey:
• Big Bend more small red drum 42% more large red drum 18% more red drum 34%
“How do you feel about the status of the red drum fishing in your area over the past year?”
• Panhandle: “It’s doing great” 47% “It’s okay” 26% “It’s doing poorly” 11%
• Big Bend: “It’s doing great” 46% It’s okay” 29% “It’s doing poorly” 6%
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Guide vs. Recreational Angler
In a separate email communication from FWC 10/17/16 (verification available upon request via PM), here’s a breakdown of respondents to FWC’s 2016 Red Drum Stakeholder Engagement Survey:
• Panhandle: 103 guides/charter captains, 6.2% of 1,660 respondents
• Big Bend: 55 guides/charter captains, 3.8% of 1,448 respondents
• NW Red Drum Management Zone (Panhandle+Big Bend) 158 guides/charter captains, 5.1% of 3,108 respondents.
• Guides/charter captains comprised a very low percentage of total survey respondents.
“How do you feel about the status of the red drum fishing in your area over the past year?”
• “It’s doing great”: Panhandle Guides 22% Panhandle Rec Anglers 49% Big Bend Guides 38% Big Bend Rec Anglers 46%
• “It’s okay”: Panhandle Guides 11% Panhandle Rec Anglers 27% Big Bend Guides 15% Big Bend Rec Anglers 30%
• “It’s doing poorly: Panhandle Guides 46% Panhandle Rec Anglers 9% Big Bend Guides 19% Big Bend Rec Anglers 6%
Significant disparities exist between guides/charter captains vs. rec anglers.
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SUMMARY: “The Whole Enchilada”, “The Full Monty”
In the absence of good science and current scientific data, FWC relied exclusively on anecdotal reports, heavily biased toward a small number of guides/charter captains operating in the Apalachicola/Panama City area, when deciding to reduce the daily bag limit of redfish in its NW Management Zone.
A careful review of results from FWC’s 2016 Red Drum Stakeholder Engagement Survey clearly shows FWC gave far more consideration to the 5% single-digit minority survey respondents’ guides/charter captains than to the 90%+ overwhelming majority survey respondents’ recreational anglers.
FWC Commissioners look foolish making such a decision, which reeks of catering to the special interest group of guides/charter captains. FWC Staff (including its’ researchers and scientists) look ashamedly like “puppets” engaged in job preservation and politics rather than sound fisheries management grounded in sound research and results.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Attached to this post is FWC’s summary of its 2016 Red Drum Stakeholder Engagement Survey in its entirety. Much of that which is revealed by these survey results directly contradicts FWC’s rationale for lowering the redfish bag limit.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In my opinion, FWC made a bad decision. “Bad” because, throughout the process, FWC never had/never used any recent scientific data, findings, etc. to support its’ decision. “Bad” because, based on recent personal experience, as well as those of others, conventional wisdom has been saying, “the Red Drum fishery in the NW Management Zone (other than perhaps the Apalachicola Bay) is okay.”
[Note: given the environmental plight of Apalachicola Bay (collapse of the oyster industry as an indicator), it came as no surprise to me that some in that area began expressing concerns about redfish specifically in that area.]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Information as provided by/from FWC:
Total survey respondents 8,311
NW Mgmt. Zone respondents 3,148 (the highest number of all mgmt. zones)
For this survey, the NW Mgmt. Zone was sub-divided as follows:
• Panhandle (Escambia through Ochlockonee Bay in Wakulla) 1,660
• Big Bend (Apalachee Bay in Wakulla through Pasco) 1,488
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - -
Where to begin? Perhaps at the end…
“In the past year, stakeholders have expressed concerns that red drum populations have declined in parts of the Panhandle since 2013, the final year of data included in the most recent stock assessment.”
- from FWC news release 9/8/2016
“Which of the following have you noticed in your area in the past two (2) years?”
Survey (Panhandle segment) says,…
• Fewer small red drum 7% Fewer large red drum 8% Fewer red drum 21%
• More small red drum 26% More large red drum 30% More red drum 35%
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“…stakeholders have asked the Commission to modify the management of this fishery.”
- from Memorandum, “Draft Rule – Red Drum”, J. McCawley to FWC Commissioners, 6/23/16
“Commissioner Roberts commented that all of the stakeholders he talked to are in agreement on the reduction in the bag limit.”
- from Minutes, FWC Commission Meeting June 2016 Eastpoint, FL p.14
"all of the stakeholders"? Evidently Commissioner Roberts didn't bother to read the results of FWC's own stakeholder survey:
Survey says…
• 33% (a minority of 1/3) of Panhandle anglers would support lowering the bag limit in the Panhandle
• 27% (a minority of slightly more than 1/4) of Big Bend anglers would support lowering the bag limit in the Big Bend
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Also from the Survey:
• Big Bend more small red drum 42% more large red drum 18% more red drum 34%
“How do you feel about the status of the red drum fishing in your area over the past year?”
• Panhandle: “It’s doing great” 47% “It’s okay” 26% “It’s doing poorly” 11%
• Big Bend: “It’s doing great” 46% It’s okay” 29% “It’s doing poorly” 6%
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Guide vs. Recreational Angler
In a separate email communication from FWC 10/17/16 (verification available upon request via PM), here’s a breakdown of respondents to FWC’s 2016 Red Drum Stakeholder Engagement Survey:
• Panhandle: 103 guides/charter captains, 6.2% of 1,660 respondents
• Big Bend: 55 guides/charter captains, 3.8% of 1,448 respondents
• NW Red Drum Management Zone (Panhandle+Big Bend) 158 guides/charter captains, 5.1% of 3,108 respondents.
• Guides/charter captains comprised a very low percentage of total survey respondents.
“How do you feel about the status of the red drum fishing in your area over the past year?”
• “It’s doing great”: Panhandle Guides 22% Panhandle Rec Anglers 49% Big Bend Guides 38% Big Bend Rec Anglers 46%
• “It’s okay”: Panhandle Guides 11% Panhandle Rec Anglers 27% Big Bend Guides 15% Big Bend Rec Anglers 30%
• “It’s doing poorly: Panhandle Guides 46% Panhandle Rec Anglers 9% Big Bend Guides 19% Big Bend Rec Anglers 6%
Significant disparities exist between guides/charter captains vs. rec anglers.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
SUMMARY: “The Whole Enchilada”, “The Full Monty”
In the absence of good science and current scientific data, FWC relied exclusively on anecdotal reports, heavily biased toward a small number of guides/charter captains operating in the Apalachicola/Panama City area, when deciding to reduce the daily bag limit of redfish in its NW Management Zone.
A careful review of results from FWC’s 2016 Red Drum Stakeholder Engagement Survey clearly shows FWC gave far more consideration to the 5% single-digit minority survey respondents’ guides/charter captains than to the 90%+ overwhelming majority survey respondents’ recreational anglers.
FWC Commissioners look foolish making such a decision, which reeks of catering to the special interest group of guides/charter captains. FWC Staff (including its’ researchers and scientists) look ashamedly like “puppets” engaged in job preservation and politics rather than sound fisheries management grounded in sound research and results.
Replies
Gut hooked one the other day. Luckily someone at the ramp wanted the nasty thing. Probably used it as crab bait.
I caught about 60-70 reds Thursday-Saturday.
Still say the population is down...
Still waiting on an answer to the above question I posted on this thread, but all I've heard from you is crickets:
http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?232728-Dixie-Co-creek-Spec-10-09-16&p=2895538#post2895538
That's a great weekend. We got over 2 dozen with 3 over slot fish on Saturday. I'm with you, to me population seems down. Should have been 3 dozen
You're welcome! Personally, I find it VERY interesting - and alarming. Facts of the matter are these: decision-making FWC Commissioners are appointed, not necessarily vetted to have sound backgrounds in fisheries or wildlife management or sciences.
Why these appointed, not necessarily qualified Commissioners drive FWC policy is beyond me.
The recent reduction of the redfish daily bag throughout FWC's entire Red Drum NW Management Zone, despite an extensive effort to survey stakeholders which, by the way, FWC Commissioners encouraged and supported and the results of which didn't support the need for a reduction, is a classic example.
Fall on the Nature Coast
Posted on 10/31 by Captain Dan Clymer in region Florida Fishing Reports Northwest
http://www.theonlinefisherman.com/fishing-reports/florida-fishing-reports/northwest-florida/fall-on-the-nature-coast
“Captain Grant Wilson tells us that there is a good redfish bite …”.
Steinhatchee Inshore and Nearshore
Posted on 11/03 by Captain Grant Wilson in region Florida Fishing Reports Northwest
http://www.theonlinefisherman.com/fishing-reports/florida-fishing-reports/northwest-florida/fall-on-the-nature-coast
“Fall is in the air and it has the trout and redfish bite on fire…with the big bull reds moving in any day now.”
Fall Inshore Bite On Fire
Posted on 11/04 by Captain Scott Luke in region Florida Fishing Reports Panhandle
http://www.theonlinefisherman.com/fishing-reports/florida-fishing-reports/panhandle/fall-inshore-bite-on-fire
“…redfish are schooling, from lower slot to overslot schools roaming just offshore…limited out both days on…redfish…we came across…25 inch redfish…”.
Sea **** October Report
http://seahag.com/october-2016-fishing-report-and-november-forecast/
“In the Redfish competition, John Byatt was claimed first place with a 6.77-pound fish. Chic Hinton’s 5.20-pounder was the second-best red, and Tim Pederson’s 4.03 red earned him third place…Near a hydra-like creek system known aptly as Eleven Prong, the father-and-son cast shrimp set under floats to a mangrove edge. During a feeding spurt early in the falling tide, they caught 20 ‘keeper’ redfish, and harvested a pair of 22-inchers.”
Fish-Catching and Mind-Clearing
Posted on November 3, 2016
http://www.garystacklebox.com/blog/
Lose your login.
I highly recommend the ignore feature. I wish I knew about it sooner. If you don't quote him , we won't see him. Stop feeding the troll and he will go away. I wonder what the Veterinary board would think about a Veterinarian giving that advice on a public forum? Well, I really don't have to wonder.
From: Sea **** Marina <[email protected]>
Subject: Cooler weather FINALLY with great fishing!
This Week 11-10-16 at Sea **** Marina
They're near extinction.
#redfishlivesmatter
Now THAT'S funny!
Awaiting DNA results from FWC regarding the wound on it's back. Word on the street is it's a red snapper bite.
Alabama: 3/daily 16"-26" 1 longer than 26"
Mississippi: 3/daily 18"-30"
Louisiana: 5/daily 16" minimum 1 exceeding 27"
Florida NW Red Drum Management Zone: 1/daily 18"-27"? Why?
Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?234325-St-Mark-Reds-10-30#ixzz4Q05CwWha
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Doesn't sound to me like the Redfish population in the NW Red Drum Management Zone is declining or in jeopardy.
Someone needs to learn the art of frying fish. :grin
We are talking about slot size red drum, not overslot, not oversized black drum like the one I caught Saturday. This one was so big it had a remora attached. Back over the side it went after a quick picture.
Fishing has been great. No shortage of reds period, trout has been pretty good as well. With the warm weather still holding out fish have been scattered...........but they have been everywhere, some on the flats, some on the bars, some in the creeks. Even a pontoon boat can catch them, no different than the last few years. We need a fishing politics section, the FWC won't answer questions in Confron about what the appointed commissioners dealt out.:banghead
Some results from the weekend below including boneless, skinless fillets.
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Redfish 10/13
Postby FishingPadre » October 17th, 2016, 9:15 pm
Hey friends,
Fished a lot last week due to being off work. Best day was Thursday 10/13, pulled up to the spot and adjusted...third or fourth cast and BAM, big fight.....Nice 25in THICK...he actually told me played linebacker on the Redfish football team. He fought me like a champ and went into the cooler. Ended up with seven more nice slot reds over the next hour or so. Lucky enough to be joined with my yellow kayak buddy Luceror (sp?) and he picked up several as well. Beautiful day beautiful weather.
Also, on Tuesday 10/11, saw a boat pull up a huge Red, they guessed it was around 40in...and this was in some pretty shallow water,
Re: Redfish 10/13
Postby FishingPadre » October 19th, 2016, 4:13 pm
I almost always go out of rock landing. Went out yesterday evening again with a couple of friends and they were still there. I think we totaled nine. Three were short.
Re: Redfish 10/13
Postby ertauber » October 20th, 2016, 1:43 am
Must have been this guys spot because I launched out of Panacea and headed to my favorite spot. Very shallow water low incoming tide cut pinfish is all they would hit AND holy Cow we were off to the races-in one hour 18, 18, 20, 23, 24, 26 and it was time to go home.
Re: Redfish 10/13
Postby stonewall » October 21st, 2016, 3:13 pm
I was fortunate to have the same experience this week as well at Econfina, pulled up to a spot by an oyster bar that I have never fished before and within a few seconds of my first cast, a 24" Red hit and the fight was on. We stayed in that same spot for over an hour and brought 8 slot reds in the boat.
http://www.bigbendfishing.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40239
Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?235289-Suwannee-reports#ixzz4QAiVfGIB
FWC reduced the daily bag limit from 2 to 1 in the Big Bend area and throughout the NW Red Drum Management Zone, saying it wanted to "streamline" the state's redfish regulations (meanwhile the daily bag limit of redfish for Florida's NE Red Drum Management Zone remains at 2 - so much for "streamlining" regulations, eh?).
Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana currently allow 3 redfish/day. Georgia allows 5 redfish/day.
November 15, 2016 Fort Walton Beach, Florida
November 15, 2016 Gulf Breeze, Florida
November 13, 2016 Homosassa, Florida
November 13, 2016 Homosassa, Florida
November 1, 2016 Fort Walton Beach, Florida
October 2, 2016 Pensacola, Florida
October 2, 2016 Ochlockonee Bay, Florida
LIM-IT-OUT CHARTERS MAKES PENSACOLA HEAD LINES
http://www.pnj.com/story/sports/2016...dark/92418998/
Here are a few pics from last month! I had many days of catching countless specks, reds and flounder in a 4hr period. But dont take my word for it look me up on facebook #Joshua Lim and watch my clients speak on behalf of their trip or watch them bow up and fight fish!!! I have many videos up on facebook. With client reviews and in 85% of all my videos I always ask how many fish did they catch the usual answer is, " i lost count" or " 100"
If you want to catch Specks, Reds and Flounder then Im the Captain for you!!!!!
Tight Lines and Good Fishin
http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f81/october-killer-771921/
Posted 11-14-2016
Tally for the Night: - Total of 14 Bulls
Alex: 33.5'' & 36.5'' bulls
Bryce: Met the skunk
Tim: 35'', 36.5'', 36'', 37'', & 37.5'' bulls
Me: 35'', 37'', 36.5'' & 35.5'' bulls
Mitch: 34'', 37'', & 37'' bulls
http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f29/11-11-%5Bredfish-rampage-%5D-774065/
“Went out in the bay Sunday the 13th. What a great day. My buddies were around the corner hooking into the 30-40 inch reds every second and we spent half the time doing that and the other half hooking into slot reds in the grass beds.”
“No doubt! We boated and released over 30 over slots on Saturday in just a few hours.”
http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f29/reds-thicker-than-oprah-winfree-774993/
Limit in LA is 5 also.
St. George Island
The fall fishing is on fire, Captain Paul Polous says if you don't have a redfish on, you're out of bait. The reds are on the flats, in the Bob Sykes Cut and off the beach. Live bait is the best thing for the cut, Gulp!s and DOAs on the flats. Off the beach no self-respecting redfish can pass up a nice piece of fresh mullet.
Apalachee Bay
The oyster bars in the mouths of the St. Marks River and the western creeks are holding good numbers of trout and reds.
Keaton Beach
We had 14 reds (kept 4) and threw back the balance, including two over 34 inches long Monday…
Steinhatchee
Richard McDavid at Sea **** Marina in Steinhatchee (352-498-3008) sent photos of anglers with some very large redfish…
http://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/outdoors/2016/11/17/outdoors-whiting-biting/94035336/
You are correct - thanks.
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 1:54 PM
From: Sea **** Marina <[email protected]>
To:
Subject: The fishing is FINE!
Written by CCA Florida Published: 06 May 2016
The long-awaited red drum stock assessment was presented to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) this week, and the initial results show cause for concern.
The Spawning Potential Ratio (SPR) for both the southern portion of the stock (Florida, Georgia and South Carolina) and the northern portion (North Carolina and points north) should be at least 30 percent. This means the spawning stock for red drum must be at least 30 percent that of an unfished stock. The estimates revealed this week indicate an SPR of 17 percent for the southern portion and just 9.1 percent for the northern portion. Recreational anglers in several states along the Atlantic Coast have voiced concerns about the status of the red drum population, but these estimates, if correct, are alarming. They indicate stocks could be slipping below a level needed to maintain a healthy stock.
“The assessment, combined with the concerns of local anglers, raises a troubling red flag,” said Richen Brame, regional fisheries director for Coastal Conservation Association. “If the results of the assessment are close to accurate, then red drum conservation measures are called for immediately.
http://www.ccaflorida.org/typgraphy/press-releases/321-atlantic-red-drum-assessment-cause-for-concern.html
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FWC lowered the daily bag limit from 2 to 1 in the NW Red Drum Management Zone - without any supportive scientific assessment - yet has left intact a daily bag limit of 2 in the NE Red Drum Management Zone? Go figure...:huh