10 Wt fly rod for sinking lines

ricochet46

I have just returned from a summer fishing primarily for striped bass with heavy (350 grain) sinking lines. I have been using an older Echo rod which is more of a meat stick than a rod. It has great lifting power but does not load well. By the end of the summer my shoulder was telling me to look for a new rod. I would appreciate any suggestions, mid point price range topping out at about $300. I have several TFO rods and feel they are a good product for a price point. I am open to used rods as well if anyone has one to sell

darnhardheads

TFO Mangrove?

Ol'DirtyCaster

I have an old sage RP 10wt that I like for DC lines. The old Biscayne 1pc were deep loaders too. I won't lie, these days I prefer my sage ones, but if your looking for something smootg, that's a little more parabolic than what's available today, those are good options that won't cost you a mortgage payment.

Permit Rat

Where are you bass fishing? I've heard the stripers have made a full comeback, at least in the Cape Cod area, where I used to fish them. Unfortunately, my Summers on the Cape and Vineyard, was during the peak of their decline, back in the 60's and early 70's. We usually caught one for the table when wanted, but releasing any number of bass, was out of the question.

Carl Blackledge

ricochet46 wrote: »

I have just returned from a summer fishing primarily for striped bass with heavy (350 grain) sinking lines. I have been using an older Echo rod which is more of a meat stick than a rod. It has great lifting power but does not load well. By the end of the summer my shoulder was telling me to look for a new rod. I would appreciate any suggestions, mid point price range topping out at about $300. I have several TFO rods and feel they are a good product for a price point. I am open to used rods as well if anyone has one to sell

Perhaps switch to a shooting head ?

Most of us Salmon-Steelhead fisherman here on the west cost and most of the striper fisherman use sinking shooting heads for repetitive casting such as you are doing. Most of us use 10 wt heads on our 9 wt rods. when retrieving your line in, we make a roll cast to bring the sinking line up off the bottom, then make one back cast and a double haul and a snap of the wrist and you just sent your fly 90-100 feet....pretty simple for long repetitive casting.

My 2 cents

Carl Blackledge

sparse grey

Carl, If you would please--What do you use for running line & how do you put up with the tangles, if any.

Carl Blackledge

Sparse Grey,

You might have to just get acquainted with using a shooting head, the more you use it the easier it gets.

Maybe 30 years ago I started using shooting heads with green amnesia #20 test as the running line, The biggest trick at that time was to stretch the hell out of it and keep it damp. I fished every morning so my running line (amnesia) stayed damp and stretched out and I could "put up" with it easily. Now after that being said remember I am fishing here on the California coast in the winter and it's colder then hell and I am using using frozen fingers. Now at this later date I use the same shooting heads however I have changed to 50 pound RIO sharp shooter and your probably saying to yourself #50 pound? Yes 50 pound doesn't kink, it stays stiff and glides thru your guides with no effort amazing stuff and it's worth the ridiculous price they charge for it.

I don't use shooting heads in Mexico, or any other warmer climates like you have in Florida, However I would think the warmer weather just might even cast further with less effort to a certain degree.

My 2 cents

Carl Blackledge

sparse grey

Thanks Carl, I first used shooting heads in the late 70's & went all in. However, it didn't take long for the frustrations of tangled running line to make me quit & I've never gone back. Might have to reconsider. Thanks again & glad it is working for you.

Carl Blackledge

I guess I was lucky to first be introduced to the shooting head concept while it was still warm (actually hot) in the summer fishing for our Shad in the local Russian River here on the west coast. Later on in the winter when fishing the same spots for Steelhead I was in better shape and had a better wherewithal to cast all day in the Ice cold weather with frozen fingers. I quickly learned that the continuous roll casting will put twists in your running line if your not paying attention and you always need to use a skinny leader when using 20 pound running line, you can easily snag the bottom and if your not careful when trying jerk your fly loose, you can break the 20 pound running line and lose your shooting head. Another trick we learned was to put all 200 feet of amnesia on the reel, during the day as your fishing if you get a kink or a nick in the running line it real simple to just cut 20-30 feet off the end as opposed to changing the whole shooting match. I hope some of this makes sence.

Carl Blackledge

RobA

I've gone striper fishing once in California and what Carl described is how we did it.

Ol'DirtyCaster

I started with amnesia too (red), then flat beam mono, all horrible stuff, but necessary. Used Berkley big game 40lb for a while, then braided mono from gudebrod/cortland, and later Airflo. Keep in mind that what works for a guy on the deck of a boat, might be completely useless to a guy standing in the surf with a stripping basket. Carl's slickshooter is definitely the most cost effective, and even the 50lb is pretty manageable. Rio came out with the gripshooter running line a few years ago, and it's a lot easier to handle. I use braid, mostly because of it's lack of memory and the fact that I can splice it, creating a seamless connection that's stronger than the line itself. I've tried the Airflo ridge/Rio/cortland/SA mono core running lines and to me they're prohibitively heavy. They fish ok, but they cost me some distance and I'll never get used to the drag coefficient of those lines. They just feel bulky. The way they perform you might as well be using an integrated line anyway, but they do make intermediate running lines and I'm sure that's useful for someone, somewhere. Right now I'm using a braided PE line that SA came out with about 3 years ago. Splicing it is miserable stuff. I use a piece of #2 wire to run a length of 6lb spectra to pull the loop inside itself. I've spiced 7-8 of them and I usually have to rinse blood off of them when I'm done. The weave is really tight on this stuff. It's what makes it great to fish with, but so miserable to rig up. My way is just my way, and I'm not suggesting that's the only way to do it. I need to put a 10" fly on a dinner plate at 120', and I have to be quick about it. I have to mend the break, and be able to set a hook into bone at a distance. If it knots up occasionally so be it.

Carl Blackledge

Ol'DirtyCaster wrote: »

I started with amnesia too (red), then flat beam mono, all horrible stuff, but necessary. Used Berkley big game 40lb for a while, then braided mono from gudebrod/cortland, and later Airflo. Keep in mind that what works for a guy on the deck of a boat, might be completely useless to a guy standing in the surf with a stripping basket. Carl's slickshooter is definitely the most cost effective, and even the 50lb is pretty manageable. Rio came out with the gripshooter running line a few years ago, and it's a lot easier to handle. I use braid, mostly because of it's lack of memory and the fact that I can splice it, creating a seamless connection that's stronger than the line itself. I've tried the Airflo ridge/Rio/cortland/SA mono core running lines and to me they're prohibitively heavy. They fish ok, but they cost me some distance and I'll never get used to the drag coefficient of those lines. They just feel bulky. The way they perform you might as well be using an integrated line anyway, but they do make intermediate running lines and I'm sure that's useful for someone, somewhere. Right now I'm using a braided PE line that SA came out with about 3 years ago. Splicing it is miserable stuff. I use a piece of #2 wire to run a length of 6lb spectra to pull the loop inside itself. I've spiced 7-8 of them and I usually have to rinse blood off of them when I'm done. The weave is really tight on this stuff. It's what makes it great to fish with, but so miserable to rig up. My way is just my way, and I'm not suggesting that's the only way to do it. I need to put a 10" fly on a dinner plate at 120', and I have to be quick about it. I have to mend the break, and be able to set a hook into bone at a distance. If it knots up occasionally so be it.

Mr Dirt,

When casting a shooting head half the time I am in the water up to my *** casting for Steelhead, the other half of the time I am standing in the back of my pram casting to Salmon, as we both know when above the water or level with it 80-100 casts or unloading the entire line isn't rocket science, however I am not using a 10 inch fly (maybe 2 inch) so far you to be able to cast 110 feet in a heart beat and then hit a diner plate is just outstanding casting, and especially if your standing in the surf and suds......My hat is off to you.

I would post a picture of my pram, however I would get in trouble with the peanut gallery.

Carl Blackledge

Ol'DirtyCaster

The braided mono I use weighs about half of what your standard running line does. The 20lb braid I use on the 7 is even smaller. I'm not an exceptional caster, I'm just really good at adapting to the habitat I fish. Braid has its issues. We don't even carry it at the shop because I know it'll give most people fits. 80% of my fishing is either from the surf or jetty using density compensated heads. Everything from whiting, pompano, and flounder to spinners and tarpon. I've had too many days watching fish that were 25' out of range with integrated lines, so I do the braid thing, usually with an intermediate or type III rio obs shooting head.

Tgrass

I have been Stirper fishing for close to 30 years now and the fishing now is not nearly as good as it was after the moratorium was lifted. I think the fact that the bait has been really over harvested in many areas causing the fish to try to find bait in other areas instead of areas that were one fish magnets and that combined with increases on an annual basis for the commercial fishing quotas have really hurt the fishery.

Sorry, I got a little side tracked. I have never use a shooting head with a running line for Stripers. I tried it one season and it was a disaster. I had constant tangle issue when shooting line and I think that was caused more my the wind blowing the line around in the basket or out of the basket all the time. When wading water getting in the basket as created issues as well.

I can't say there is a specific rod made for fishing 10 wt shooting heads, a 10 wt is a 10 wt and that weight rod should be able to handle a 10 wt line be it floating, intermediate or sinking.

For what it is worth I use a 350 grain 26 ft DC sink tip with an intermediate running line for my 10 weight, same line 300 grain for my 9 wt and again same line for my 8 wt in 250 grain. No tangle issues with any of them.

Don't get me wrong I think there a some locations and types of fishing that may well be the perfect place for a shooting head system but having tried them, I just feel because of the local environment around here (Massachusetts) shooting heads just don't fare well.

Ol'DirtyCaster

Tgrass wrote: »

I have never use a shooting head with a running line for Stripers. I tried it one season and it was a disaster.

Umm........

Tgrass

Ol'DirtyCaster wrote: »

Umm........

I see your point, okay I used them once and my conclusion was and still is they are a disaster for Stripers.

I guess the correct way to put it would be " I have used a shooting head with a running line for Stripers, I tried it once and it was a disaster and I never used one again "

Ol'DirtyCaster

Tgrass wrote: »

I see your point, okay I used them once and my conclusion was and still is they are a disaster for Stripers.

I guess the correct way to put it would be " I have used a shooting head with a running line for Stripers, I tried it once and it was a disaster and I never used one again "

So you "tried it once" and felt obligated to chime in on this thread eh? Might I ask why? I'm seriously wondering why you would take the time to post 5 paragraphs flaming a product based on "I tried it once". I tried a baitcaster once, it was a disaster. That doesn't mean baitcasters are inherently bad, and I'm not going to waste my time creating posts about my limited experience with them.

Tgrass

Ol'DirtyCaster wrote: »

So you "tried it once" and felt obligated to chime in on this thread eh? Might I ask why? I'm seriously wondering why you would take the time to post 5 paragraphs flaming a product based on "I tried it once". I tried a baitcaster once, it was a disaster. That doesn't mean baitcasters are inherently bad, and I'm not going to waste my time creating posts about my limited experience with them.

Time to Chime in ONE MORE TIME

Sometimes it only takes one time to find out you don't like something but for the record I said I tried it for one season, and that was more than enough time to make a sound decision for me.

I also believe I said -

"I had constant tangle issue when shooting line and I think that was caused more by the wind blowing the line around in the basket or out of the basket all the time. When wading water getting in the basket also created issues as well." You have the option of going back to read my post.

In all honesty I can't see how that is flaming a product. There is a vast difference between a product and a concept and the concept of a shooting head in that environment I'm in just doesn't work well for me is all I was trying to say.

I will say this though, I did try a baitcaster once as well. Didn't like that either the very first time I used it, never used one again. I do agree however that they are not inherently bad, they are just not for me just like shooting heads. I just knew I would not waste a whole season using one.

I think you are taking all of this way to seriously but if that is what floats your boat, go for it. In my reply to you I was trying to make light of my grammatical error, granted I used the word 'once" but you seemed to take that in a littoral sense and your trolley went off the rails.

I am not the first one to say that I did not like something on this forum and I won't be the last. It is never a waste of time to offer your opinion on something and that is all I really did but you somehow seem to have a problem with that, The fact of the matter is, we just have different opinions is all. I think the fact that shooting heads work for you is great.

One final thing, I wasn't wasting my time by creating 5 paragraphs as you say because you felt I somehow seemed to have limited experience on a particular concept. That would be like me saying you would be "flaming " integrated shooting heads because you found they just did not give you the extra distance you wanted because the fish were 25 feet out of range.

I specifically said "Don't get me wrong I think there a some locations and types of fishing that may well be the perfect place for a shooting head system." You have found that place and that is great for you.

Happy New Year

randyrichter

Ol'DirtyCaster wrote: »

The braided mono I use weighs about half of what your standard running line does. The 20lb braid I use on the 7 is even smaller. I'm not an exceptional caster, I'm just really good at adapting to the habitat I fish. Braid has its issues. We don't even carry it at the shop because I know it'll give most people fits. 80% of my fishing is either from the surf or jetty using density compensated heads. Everything from whiting, pompano, and flounder to spinners and tarpon. I've had too many days watching fish that were 25' out of range with integrated lines, so I do the braid thing, usually with an intermediate or type III rio obs shooting head.

You've caught spinners from the beach? Man....would love to do that.

Ol'DirtyCaster

Tgrass wrote: »

Time to Chime in ONE MORE TIME

Sometimes it only takes one time to find out you don't like something but for the record I said I tried it for one season, and that was more than enough time to make a sound decision for me.

I also believe I said -

"I had constant tangle issue when shooting line and I think that was caused more by the wind blowing the line around in the basket or out of the basket all the time. When wading water getting in the basket also created issues as well." You have the option of going back to read my post.

In all honesty I can't see how that is flaming a product. There is a vast difference between a product and a concept and the concept of a shooting head in that environment I'm in just doesn't work well for me is all I was trying to say.

I will say this though, I did try a baitcaster once as well. Didn't like that either the very first time I used it, never used one again. I do agree however that they are not inherently bad, they are just not for me just like shooting heads. I just knew I would not waste a whole season using one.

I think you are taking all of this way to seriously but if that is what floats your boat, go for it. In my reply to you I was trying to make light of my grammatical error, granted I used the word 'once" but you seemed to take that in a littoral sense and your trolley went off the rails.

I am not the first one to say that I did not like something on this forum and I won't be the last. It is never a waste of time to offer your opinion on something and that is all I really did but you somehow seem to have a problem with that, The fact of the matter is, we just have different opinions is all. I think the fact that shooting heads work for you is great.

One final thing, I wasn't wasting my time by creating 5 paragraphs as you say because you felt I somehow seemed to have limited experience on a particular concept. That would be like me saying you would be "flaming " integrated shooting heads because you found they just did not give you the extra distance you wanted because the fish were 25 feet out of range.

I specifically said "Don't get me wrong I think there a some locations and types of fishing that may well be the perfect place for a shooting head system." You have found that place and that is great for you.

Happy New Year

I can only go by what you write, feel free to edit away. Everybody has made an arbitrary post at one time or another, maybe you're snowed in and have nothing better to do? I seriously don't know, and it really doesn't matter, but for the sake of transparency I feel obligated to ask when someone makes a hostile or negative post for what seems to be no reason at all. It's in my nature to look beyond what's written and question the motivation of such a post, and your response speaks volumes. Don't let winter have It's way with you. I know it's easy for someone to say when they haven't seen a snowflake in 20 years, but I have been there. I used to live in Providence, on the Seekonk (where I was introduced to lead core)Then Philly for a few years. Luckily I had many distractions and the internet was still in its infancy.

Ol'DirtyCaster

randyrichter wrote: »

You've caught spinners from the beach? Man....would love to do that.

Catch might be a poor choice of words. They're there, and I hook them, but I can count on one hand the number I've managed to land. Pound for pound they fight much harder than a tarpon. I have an open seat policy when the surf turns. Give me a shout when you start seeing pogies, I'll take you fishing.

*Disclaimer: I'm not a guide. You're responsible for your own gear, and your own coffee. And you'll want an extra line if spinners are around.

boatdrinks

as far as the rod question goes, I like really fast rods for sinking lines. Sage Salt and Rise Level would be my choice.