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Hillbilly Elegy - Truth of the white working class

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  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    In all serious, IT is a diverse field. I think you are specialized in graphic arts. I have gravitated to general Windows based systems maintenance with a solid background in Citrix and VMware, among other platforms.

    computers are computers. gfx just means a lot of data.
    I could leave my company for much more $$$, but I've been at my job for over 11 years.

    If your your company sharing your wage info with those other companies? Would you be navigating blacklists?

    both happened in florida - in IT - during your career.
    Why are you so hateful towards the field you're in? Shouldn't you look in the mirror and blame that person if you feel entitled for more compensation?

    Between the court depositions and hacker doxxing, I have the luxury of knowing the truth. It happened, it happened in florida - and it's effects were and are still being felt throughout the global economy.

    George Lucas: "This is not like a regular capitalist kind of operation"

    https://pando.com/2016/01/05/white-slaver-awakens-how-george-lucas-suppressed-employees-wages-while-becoming-multibillionaire/
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    This thread has 1600 views. Here is some of the 'blast radius' of the thing:

    Microsoft, AMD, Best Buy, Cingular, Foxconn, Nvidia, Mac Zone, PC Connection, PC Mall, Intuit, JCrew, Nike, and Genentech, IBM, WPPAOL, Inc., Ask.com, Clear Channel Communications, Inc., Dell, Inc., Earthlink, Inc, Virgin Media, Inc. (Formerly NTL, Inc.), Kelly Services (US and worldwide), Kforce, CDI Business Solutions, Adecco...
  • jad1097jad1097 Posts: 9,611 Admiral
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    explain? or just continue to be a ****.

    I'm not being a ****. I am pointing out that your comment was ignorant. It is a number you pulled out of your rectum.

    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    in 2008 avg UAW benefits was $73/hr... bet it's higher now.

    more ignorance. UAW benefits did not average 73 an hour in 08'. What was said was: "the average worker was paid about $70 an hour, including health care and pension costs." http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/81355-the-media-myth-detroits-70anhour-autoworker
    C'mon seriously? Computer engineering.

    That is not what you said. I googled it and there was no degree for confusing engineering.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,177 AG
    jad1097 wrote: »
    I'm not being a ****. I am pointing out that your comment was ignorant. It is a number you pulled out of your rectum.




    more ignorance. UAW benefits did not average 73 an hour in 08'. What was said was: "the average worker was paid about $70 an hour, including health care and pension costs." http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/81355-the-media-myth-detroits-70anhour-autoworker



    That is not what you said. I googled it and there was no degree for confusing engineering.
    My comment was a question.

    70 dollars per hour (which includes perks) was still 70/hour out of the companies pocket.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    do you know how much it costs to keep you in the seat and what the return is?
  • jad1097jad1097 Posts: 9,611 Admiral
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    My comment was a question.

    70 dollars per hour (which includes perks) was still 70/hour out of the companies pocket.

    Sensationalism.

    Did you read my link? The average employee did not make 70 an hour including benefits. That fuzzy math includes pension payments for retirees.
  • HeatwaveHeatwave Posts: 1,997 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    So what is the avg UAW retirement costing the company these days, $150/hour? More?

    Back when I worked for Firestone the big money workers were the tire builders, they were paid a base wage and then an incentive based on production %.
    Base was around 13/hr but with a 150 - 200% production rate pay could reach $25/hr (back in 1983).
    All of the union reps in tire building would come to work, bust their *** the 1st two hours of their shift (to get the % up as the 1st two hours determined your wage for the day, per union rules), then take off for union business for the other 6 hours of their shift.

    Quite a scam.
    I felt really bad for some of the older guys that were 2 years short of a retirement when the plant closed.
    I got a kick however out of the union reps that hastened the closure crying the blues about the unfairness of it all.

    Reap what you sow comes to mind.

    And thus things got out of hand in certain areas. Agreed, What does the New UAW worker get in comparison, or the 95% that are now without a retirement that has been turned into a 401K Wallstreet scam they are told will be there for them if they let the broker control the funds.

    People can go back and forth on issues all day... What was, what can be, blah blah.... Let's face it, things are way tilted the other way now... I am glad I have saved, am fine, and no worries... I care about the other people being bamboozled...

    Does this mean that people should make 15 an hour now and be Grateful ? The middle ground is where it should be. The Rich, at that time, were paying huge taxes, that was their complaint and rightfully so. It was too high, so we made it equal on PAPER. Yet, now they have huge advantage, a guy making 10 million a year in 1983 now makes 150 million, vs the guy that made 22 an hour in the union now makes 15 an hour at an assembly plant in Tennessee... Is this what you support ?

    All I ever preach or ask for on here is fairness and I always get one person, that may be doing well, saved all his dimes, did good, worked hard and spends within his means that thinks this is OK... It is beyond belief to think that this is what everyone considers a GREAT AMERICA.
  • HeatwaveHeatwave Posts: 1,997 Captain
    I can tell ya... If a CEO makes 20M a year, there should be no one on their payroll making less than 100K a year. There is no one person worth this kind of money, I am sorry, it is an opinion, I get it.... This is where the American Dream went, right into this one guys pocket...

    Everytime these discussion it comes down to someone stating 20 an hour is a BS wage for anyone in today's market, then someone says, go back to school, start a business, etc.... Then they pull the one guy in 10,000 that has done it and posts his glorified story on the page. We never look at the other 9,999 people, or the 3000 of those 9,999 that live in or below poverty. And when we finally do, when someone say's, "what about those people" ? We get.... The world needs ditch diggers too ! There isn't suppose to be 3000 in Poverty and 1 Millionaire in the United States of America...

    Funny watching the HBO special last night on the Super Political Super Pac fund feeders, like T boone... He complained that the Koch brothers outbid him in his proxy to make Natural Gas a big deal vs Gasoline... Poor T boone... spent 100M and the Koch brothers beat him buy donating way way more... So Oil and regular gas stay the same American Big GUlp... Watch it, watch the really rich complain about the super rich and the super rich complain about the Mega rich... What a joke ! And we think our vote counts... Nope !
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,177 AG
    jad1097 wrote: »
    Sensationalism.

    Did you read my link? The average employee did not make 70 an hour including benefits. That fuzzy math includes pension payments for retirees.
    I read the link.
    Way back when I worked for Firestone we had good health insurance, pretty much free.
    It paid for most everything except routine Dr. visits, scripts were a dollar unless from an ER visit, then they were free.
    ER visits were no pay (free also) per the union contract.

    POS union workers would go to the ER for a cold instead of their family Dr. to avoid paying the Dr. (bout $20.00 per visit) and the ONE dollar per script.
    They wouldn't spend two hours of their pay for 99% free health care but had no problem sticking the company insurance with a $2-400 bill for a cold.
    Union ruined that plant and unions have ruined a decent job with benefits for most of the working class.

    Rule of thumb back when most companies had good benefits was pay x aprox 2.5 was the total cost to the company.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • jad1097jad1097 Posts: 9,611 Admiral
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I read the link.
    Way back when I worked for Firestone we had good health insurance, pretty much free.
    It paid for most everything except routine Dr. visits, scripts were a dollar unless from an ER visit, then they were free.
    ER visits were no pay (free also) per the union contract.

    POS union workers would go to the ER for a cold instead of their family Dr. to avoid paying the Dr. (bout $20.00 per visit) and the ONE dollar per script.
    They wouldn't spend two hours of their pay for 99% free health care but had no problem sticking the company insurance with a $2-400 bill for a cold.
    Union ruined that plant and unions have ruined a decent job with benefits for most of the working class.

    Rule of thumb back when most companies had good benefits was pay x aprox 2.5 was the total cost to the company.

    You have to be delusional to think unions destroyed most of the working class. There's nothing I can say to change your opinion.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,177 AG
    jad1097 wrote: »
    You have to be delusional to think unions destroyed most of the working class. There's nothing I can say to change your opinion.
    I'm just going off what I saw in 8 years working in a union plant.

    My position is that unions priced themselves out of business (manufacturing jobs) in this country.
    Company outsources and wins in that case, American workers however, lose.

    JMO.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    but you weren't actually in a union, correct?

    i was.
  • tk's joytk's joy Posts: 2,490 Officer
    What about Eastern Airlines ?

    tk
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,177 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    but you weren't actually in a union, correct?

    i was.
    I was salary.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I was salary.

    no overtime. that sucks.

    wasnt a problem when i was doing 'computer stuff' union

    non-union - totally different matter. neither had the leverage to challenge 'shareholder value'
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,177 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    no overtime. that sucks.

    wasnt a problem when i was doing 'computer stuff' union

    non-union - totally different matter. neither had the leverage to challenge 'shareholder value'
    No overtime, but had the freedom to leave early or take a paid personal day if caught up.
    .
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • jad1097jad1097 Posts: 9,611 Admiral
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I'm just going off what I saw in 8 years working in a union plant.

    My position is that unions priced themselves out of business (manufacturing jobs) in this country.
    Company outsources and wins in that case, American workers however, lose.

    JMO.

    I've been in the union for over 20 years.

    This is a good read
    http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

    The erosion of collective bargaining hurts all workers

    One of the main causes of stagnant wages and rising wage inequality is the decline of collective bargaining which has lowered the wages of both union and nonunion workers. The figure shows that the drop in the share of workers under collective bargaining contracts is the mirror image of the rise of incomes of the top 10 percent. This occurs because collective bargaining not only raises wages for organized workers but also leads other employers to raise the wages and benefits of nonunion workers to come closer to union wage standards. This phenomenon occurs when collective bargaining achieves even modest penetration. The erosion of collective bargaining can explain from one-fourth to one-third of the growth of wage inequality between 1973 and 2007 and had a greater impact on men than women. This erosion of collective bargaining occurred despite large numbers of workers indicating they would prefer collective bargaining if they had a choice. But the political power of those with the most income, wealth, and power prevented the adoption of laws to modernize our labor–management system and enable workers to pursue collective bargaining.
    Figure 9
    Decline in union membership mirrors income gains of top 10%
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    No overtime, but had the freedom to leave early or take a paid personal day if caught up.
    .

    you got screwed. most of us do though.
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