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Looky Here... River Clean Up Plan Comes to $303M

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2016/07/27/brevard-floats-300-million-lagoon-cleanup-plan/87528894/

This doesn't mean the money exists. But what it would cost to pay for this particular plan that addresses multiple clean up and pollution reduction methods.

Interesting note in the article: cost to replace ALL septic tanks would be an astronomical $1.19 BILLION. (This plan calls for partial replacement in high impact areas to the tune of $41.7M.)
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Replies

  • Lunch Money SurfLunch Money Surf Posts: 1,033 Officer
    Muck dredging — $198.1 million to cut 491,300 pounds of nitrogen per year ($408 per pound) and 73,650 pounds of phosphorus per year ($2,733 per pound);

    Septic system removal — $41.7 million to cut 56,509 pounds of nitrogen per year ($852 per pound);

    Septic system upgrades — $22.2 million to cut 27,659 pounds of nitrogen per year ($802 per pound);

    Stormwater Projects — $10.8 million to cut 118,440 pounds of nitrogen ($88 per pound per year) and 17,026 pounds of phosphorus per year ($612 per pound);

    Oyster Reef Living Shorelines — $10 million to cut 21,120 pounds of nitrogen per year ($473 per pound) and 7,181 pounds of phosphorus ($1,393 per pound);

    Projects Monitoring — $10 million for scientists to monitor cost effectiveness of various projects.

    Sewer plant upgrades for reclaimed water — $9.4 million to cut 40,778 pounds of nitrogen per year ($214 per pound) and a yet to be determined amount of phosphorus;

    Fertilizer management/public education — $625,000 to cut 6,123 pounds of nitrogen annually ($102 per pound per year) and 813 pounds of phosphorus annually ($769 per pound).
  • aflatsnutaflatsnut Posts: 89 Deckhand
    If we could tap into the Amendment 1 money, it would be paid for
  • Lunch Money SurfLunch Money Surf Posts: 1,033 Officer
    $10M for oysters seems a bit loony.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    aflatsnut wrote: »
    If we could tap into the Amendment 1 money, it would be paid for

    I believe I heard the number 50 million a year today at the lagoon council emergency meeting....so...No, it would not.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    $10M for oysters seems a bit loony.

    I think you need only look at the cost per pound on that Tom to see you are correct.

    Oysters would live without us planting them...in a non compromised habitat...
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Lunch Money SurfLunch Money Surf Posts: 1,033 Officer
    Not as expensive per-pound as the septic projects... but $10M?

    I always saw the 'oyster mats' as something to keep the beachside hippies happy by giving them something to do...
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    I always saw the 'oyster mats' as something to keep the beachside hippies happy by giving them something to do...

    :rotflmao Can I use that at a meeting Tom?...I'll be sure to credit you. :wink
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,778 Captain
    What I always find the most ironic is that after a bunch of yankees came down here and decimated the river by pillaging it of all the clams..........we now have yankees telling us the fix is to fill the river with oysters.:huh

    Thats the kind of "answers" that would never make sense to us regular folks.............lessen of course we were allowed to "follow the money.":wink
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    I saw on last nights A dickhead fishing show... Blair, when not busy hawking the " Flatsblue super rods" :rolleyes was telling us we need to get clams back in the river.

    I wonder if anyone EVER THOUGHT...that BOTH CLAMS AND OYSTERS...would occur naturally...If the habitat was not effed... :huh:wink
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    This will never be nothing more than a tax for false services just like the sand trap.
  • Lunch Money SurfLunch Money Surf Posts: 1,033 Officer
    The County Commission has decided to let us vote on the matter... to the tune of a 1/2 cent sales tax...

    Trudi voted for it because that's what the voters want even though it is 'against her philosophy' whatever the F that means...

    I've lived in this county my whole life... and my bet is that the tax will be voted DOWN even though it is in all our best interests... I will bet you that 70% of this county couldn't even find the Indian River on a map if you told them to look for the blue part...

    Joe I blame you for making me so pessimistic LOL
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG

    Joe I blame you for making me so pessimistic LOL

    Been around too long...seen too much..

    Tom, If you want any positive spin on anything...don't ask some who is 60... :rotflmao
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • J-SeaJ-Sea Posts: 202 Officer
    only 10.8 mil for storm water projects...
    You could practically walk across the river on all the hydrilla / lillypads coming out of the canal at the Barber Street bridge in Vero yesterday. Can only imagine that every drainage canal in the system is doing the same - Oslo canal, C54/Sebastian river, goat creek, turkey creek, Melbourne river, Eau Gallie river etc...
    Can't we redirect or retain this stuff???
    Send it back to the headwaters of the St johns or something?
    The want to dredge 200mil worth of muck and not stop it's source???
    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
  • irlyriserirlyriser Posts: 95 Deckhand
    The money could only be used for this 10 year plan. An outside economic adviser said a 20:1 return on investment is expected. To me it's worth 50 cents for every $100 I spend, and it's about the only choice we have. I understand the sceptisism and reluctance for a new tax though.
  • irlyriserirlyriser Posts: 95 Deckhand
    aflatsnut wrote: »
    If we could tap into the Amendment 1 money, it would be paid for

    There has to be a plan in action before any state funds could be received.
  • SizuperSizuper Posts: 293 Deckhand
    You can bet any amount that Voldemort will make a ton of money off of any cleanup project.
  • SizuperSizuper Posts: 293 Deckhand
    You can bet any amount that Voldemort will make a ton of money off of any cleanup project.
  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    J-Sea wrote: »
    only 10.8 mil for storm water projects...
    You could practically walk across the river on all the hydrilla / lillypads coming out of the canal at the Barber Street bridge in Vero yesterday. Can only imagine that every drainage canal in the system is doing the same - Oslo canal, C54/Sebastian river, goat creek, turkey creek, Melbourne river, Eau Gallie river etc...
    Can't we redirect or retain this stuff???
    Send it back to the headwaters of the St johns or something?
    The want to dredge 200mil worth of muck and not stop it's source???
    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

    This is the PLAN. It will never end. And you can guarantee it's going to be a transplant contractor from up north that is awarded anything. No plan will work without stopping the loading phase before it enters the lagoon. Waterfront properties are too valuable to sacrifice.
  • captnmoecaptnmoe Posts: 20 Greenhorn
    The only thing new around here is that viera, built on old duda farm land with years of chemical abuse and cow crap.
    The water flow from there and other million dollar housing projects inland South is being sent to the river and sea. Evidence last year when the water came up about 3.5 feet **** near overnight across the entire basin.....you remember??
    HELLO, They want US to believe WE DID IT, we should feel guilty, yeah, we polluted the river with old septic tanks, lawn clippings and extra fertilizer...... really, overnight? In the past, Wastewater was dumped more and in way worse a condition 20 years ago and the fertilizers of that day have long since been banned. The water level really only changed on a prolonged South or North wind. We had some grass die off probably from that wastewater and it sure could stink at times, but no giant fish kills, brown algae, red tide, or major blooms in general.

    THEY have diverted and been pumping KABILLIONS OF GALLONS A DAY 24 X 7 into the basin and DO NOT PLAN TO STOP!!

    So, you can have my **** penny as I will take any effort possible so that my 8 year old may be able to see a stingray on the bottom one day but stop blaming US and we need to stop believing it! Fresh water needs to FLOW to Florida Bay and the St Johns or else any plan is doomed.
  • Lunch Money SurfLunch Money Surf Posts: 1,033 Officer
    For what it's worth I'm going to make and effort to not be a cynical old **** like the rest of you guys and vote YES.
  • J-SeaJ-Sea Posts: 202 Officer
    I am absolutely voting yes but think this is a band aid. something is better than nothing
  • Rich MRich M Posts: 1,326 Officer
    Why don't they go with the plan I read about in Florida Today a while back - put 2 culverts in on beachside - one N or haulover and 1 south? Said the whole lagoon system would turn-over in about 30 days. That would allow new salt water in and dilute the heck out of the mess we have. This is the band aid we need. Cheaper, easier, and will actually do something without tearing up the lagoon.

    It would clear up and grass would grow again. We'd probably end up with more fish if we had a little more water flow. Put a grate on them to keep the manatees out.

    Then they can tackle the "septic" and run-off mess.

    They really do need to address what is killing off the oysters, clams, etc. Those are our natural filters and eat all kinds of junk.

    Now, demucking/dredging the lagoon is incredible - wow.

    So much easier/cheaper to just put in the two culverts and then address installing city sewer services, stormwater retention ponds, etc. as able. I smell more than a 1/2 cent sales tax coming...
  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    Follow the sheople. Aggree to taxes... it's the northern way.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    Plans are easy to come up with....but plans that will work are something totally different.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    Plans make certain that investors make money. Who has invested in these plans? These plans will not work with the continued growth FL will have. Look north, south, and west pollution is out of control. Where does all the trash end up? In the ground/water, go to any dump and you can see it for yourself. But the sure fix will be taxation, just like northerners believe it worked for them.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    gatorhook wrote: »
    But the sure fix will be taxation, just like northerners believe it worked for them.

    Do a little research.... Both where I came from ( south shore of long Island ) and Chesapeak bay have success stories.... but they don't happen by themselves....and they are not free.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • gatorhookgatorhook Posts: 657 Officer
    Well the reseach I found is not as positive as you speak. But they keep throwing money at it... not on my dollar. By the way, your link went nowhere.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/green/blog/bal-pollution-down-in-chesapeake-bay-but-estuary-no-healthier-yet-20150123-story.htmlTV
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,925 AG
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
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