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Proline2357Proline2357 Posts: 64 Deckhand
We need to organize the folks here at bullsugar.org, Florida Sportsman and South Florida Wildlands Association to help bring all the interested parties together. Like this and send them a comment if you are in favor, maybe we can get some help and make this happen.

:hail
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Replies

  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    I can't think of a more appropriate name for that organization. Well one maybe.

    Did you know that no water from the sugar farms south of Lake Okeechobee flow north into it? And only in times of severe flooding threat to Clewiston, Bell Glade and South Bay does any water south the Lake enter from the canal conveyance system (not the farms) which contains less phosphorus than the lake itself?

    Did you know that?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    I can't think of a more appropriate name for that organization. Well one maybe.

    Did you know that no water from the sugar farms south of Lake Okeechobee flow north into it? And only in times of severe flooding threat to Clewiston, Bell Glade and South Bay does any water south the Lake enter from the canal conveyance system (not the farms) which contains less phosphorus than the lake itself?

    Did you know that?
    :rotflmao
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Ron@.38 Special[email protected] Special Posts: 6,921 Admiral
    DEP


    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: July 12, 2016
    CONTACT: DEP Press Office, 850.245.2112, [email protected]

    DEP'S DAILY UPDATE ON LAKE OKEECHOBEE

    In an effort to keep Floridians informed of the state’s efforts to protect the environment, wildlife and economies of the communities surrounding Lake Okeechobee and the Caloosahatchee and St. Lucie estuaries, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection is issuing a Lake Okeechobee status update each weekday. These updates will help residents stay informed of the latest rainfall and lake level conditions, as well as the latest actions by the State of Florida and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

    Latest Actions:

    On July 7, the Army Corps of Engineers announced it would maintain the amount of water flowing from Lake Okeechobee. The target flow for the Caloosahatchee will be 3,000 cubic feet per second (cfs) and the target flow for the St. Lucie will be 1,170 cfs. Click here for more information.
    On July 1, following a directive from Governor Rick Scott, DEP has launched a toll-free Bloom Reporting Hotline and established an online reporting form for residents to report algal blooms. Residents will now be able to call in reports to a new toll-free number at 1-855-305-3903, as well as report information online through an electronic form at www.reportalgalbloom.com.
    On June 29, Governor Scott declared a state of emergency in St. Lucie and Martin counties following an increase in algal blooms in local waterways related to the discharges of water from Lake Okeechobee; on June 30 this order was amended to include Lee and Palm Beach counties as well. This order will allow the South Florida Water Management District to redirect the flow of water in and out of Lake Okeechobee. The Governor also directed the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) to take actions to mitigate the spread of algal blooms. Click here to read the press release.
    On June 30, South Florida Water Management District began closing water control structures in the Upper Kissimmee Chain of Lakes to stop the flow of water from these water bodies south into Lake Okeechobee. This will allow for more storage in the northern lakes and reduce the overall inflows into Lake Okeechobee.
    The District will increase Lake Okeechobee discharges from 250 cubic feet per second to 400 cubic feet per second through the C-10A culvert into the L-8 canal.
    For more information about the State of Florida's actions on Lake Okeechobee, click here.



    Lake Conditions (Update as of midnight 7/11/16):

    Current Lake Level

    14.78 feet

    Historical Lake Level Average

    13.57 feet

    Total Inflow

    2,020 cfs

    Total Outflow
    (by structures operated by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)

    5,800 cfs

    Evapotranspiration/Rainfall over the Lake

    -4,790 cfs

    Net

    -8,570 cfs

    Lake level variation from a week ago

    -0.17 feet



    Lake Okeechobee Management Information:


    Lake O Map 7.12.16
    The figure above depicts various flood control structures that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (Corps) and the South Florida Water Management District (District) operate. The arrows illustrate the direction of water flow. The red arrows indicate discharges that are at levels that lower salinity to the poor range. The green arrows show the movement of water to the Everglades Agricultural Area, and the movement of water from the water conservation areas into the L-29 canal to avoid potential ecosystem impacts at Everglades National Park. The district began this movement on Feb. 15, 2016, after receiving an order from the Corps at the request of Governor Scott.



    Structures
    (see map above)

    Federal Release Guidance
    (based on 2008 Lake Okeechobee Regulation Schedule)

    Daily Average Releases
    (based on the U.S. Army Corps' C&SF System Status Update as of midnight 7/11/16)

    East – S-308 (operated by U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)

    N/A

    1,880 cfs

    East – S-80 (operated by U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)

    Up to 1,170 CFS

    1,650 cfs

    West – S-77 (operated by U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)

    Up to 3,000 CFS

    3,170 cfs

    West – S-79 (operated by U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)

    N/A

    3,330 cfs

    South - 3 structures (operated by South Florida Water Management District)

    N/A

    350 cfs

    The table above depicts the guidance for releases from the lake based on
    the Corps' 2008 Lake Okeechobee Regulation Schedule as compared
    to the actual daily average releases.



    Salinity Conditions:

    Caloosahatchee Salinity Conditions: Salinity (based on optimal conditions for adult oysters) is in the good range at Sanibel, within the fair range at Shell Point and within the poor range for Cape Coral.

    St. Lucie Salinity Conditions: Salinity at the U.S. 1 bridge is within the poor range and A1A is within the good range.

    Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's Wildlife Update:

    The FWC continues to monitor water levels and the status of wildlife in three Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) in South Florida within the Everglades ecosystem. The three areas, Everglades and Francis S. Taylor WMA, Holey Land WMA and Rotenberger WMA, encompass 736,881 acres. These WMAs provide important habitat for a diversity of imperiled wildlife species, including the Everglades snail kite, Everglades mink, little blue heron, tri-colored heron, snowy egret, white ibis, wood stork and limpkin, as well as native and abundant species like American alligators, white-tailed deer and marsh rabbits.

    FWC’s monitoring efforts include periodic wildlife and habitat surveys. FWC staff continues to watch water gauges to monitor high water levels and the impacts and stresses they may be having on areas like the Everglades tree islands, which are critical to the survival of Florida wildlife species. High water levels can seriously impact nesting and feeding activities of our native birds and make large and small mammals much more vulnerable to disease, starvation and predation. The condition of habitat on tree islands is an important indicator for the level of stress being experienced by wildlife.
    Current water conditions are as follows:
    Everglades WMA (Water Conservation Area 3A):

    Water level for comparison to High Water Closure Criteria (average of 62/63 gauges) as of July 10 = 10.99 feet
    High water closure criteria = 11.60 feet
    Regulation schedule = 9.76 feet
    Water level for comparison to regulation schedule (Average of 63/64/65 gauges) as of July 10 = 9.83 feet
    Recession rate for the last week = -0.01 feet
    Water level trend over the past 3 weeks = increasing
    Rotenberger WMA:

    Water level as of July 10 = 12.86 feet
    High water closure criteria = 13.50 feet
    Regulation schedule = 12.69 feet
    Recession rate for the last week = -0.34 feet
    Water level trend over the past 3 weeks = increasing
    Holey Land WMA:

    Water level as of July 10 = 11.87 feet
    High water closure criteria = 12.50 feet
    Regulation schedule = 11.00 feet
    Recession rate for the last week = -0.08 feet
    Water level trend over the past 3 weeks = increasing
    June was the second month of the wet season in southern Florida. This time of year, water levels in the Everglades Complex of Wildlife Management Areas typically begin to rise due to increased amounts of precipitation.

    June hydrologic conditions (water depths and recession rates) were poor for wading bird foraging, and nesting was generally finished for this season.
    The June survey detected nine snail kites in WCA 3A, and no kites in WCA 2A, WCA 2B, or WCA 3B. There was one new active nest detected in WCA 3A. There have been 18 failed nests (12 in WCA 3A and six in WCA 3B). The total nesting effort and total kites observed so far in WCA 3A and WCA 3B this year has been much lower than in recent years, most likely due to the high water conditions experienced this year. The June survey was the final full snail kite survey of the season; however, active nests will continue to be monitored.

    Members of the public should report any distressed fish or wildlife to the following FWC hotlines:

    Wildlife Alert Hotline: 1-888-404-3922 or [email protected]
    Fish Kill Hotline: 1-800-636-0511
    South Florida Water Management District's Rainfall Update:
    Rainfall Information:

    During the past three days, there has been 0.223 inches of rainfall over the region.

    Rainfall Forecast:

    Increase in showers/storms today and tomorrow before activity decreases again on Thursday and Friday. A temporary increase in moisture will help the seabreeze process produce a higher coverage and intensity of storms today. Look for a focus interior and west this afternoon through early evening. Some drier air later this week, which should lead to well below-average rains again on Thursday and Friday, before some increase occurs over the weekend.

    More information about the State of Florida's actions on Lake Okeechobee:

    On April 29, 2016, the special regulations that limited public access on the Everglades and Francis S. Taylor, Rotenberger and Holey Land WMAs were rescinded. Criteria for rescinding the special regulations are a combination of water levels and wildlife observed on surrounding levees.
    On April 28, 2016, Governor Rick Scott sent a letter to Brigadier General C. David Turner of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requesting continued authorization for increased water levels at the L-29 Canal in Lake Okeechobee.
    On April 20, 2016, the South Florida Water Management District (SFWMD) received two permits from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that will allow the District to plug the L-28 tieback canal and use the existing S-344 water control structure on the west side of the water conservation area to move up to 300 cubic feet of water per second into the Big Cypress National Preserve.
    The permits were expedited in response to Gov. Rick Scott's previous emergency request – allowing the District to deviate from its previous water control schedules.
    This is an additional strategy taken by the SFWMD and the State of Florida in response to unprecedented dry-season rainfall that has filled Water Conservation Area 3A above its regulated levels. This will allow the SFWMD to move even more water south and west out of the conservation area into the Big Cypress National Preserve, improving flood control throughout the system and protecting wildlife habitat in the conservation area.
    The South Florida Water Management District has responded to record dry season rainfall by moving billions of gallons of clean water to relieve high water levels in two critical locations. This unprecedented response includes:
    Water managers began emergency operations on Feb. 15, 2016, to move water from the vast wetlands in Miami-Dade and Broward counties to Everglades National Park. The record rainfall left water levels too high for Everglades wildlife in WCA-3.
    Through mid-April, SFWMD water managers have moved 51.7 billion gallons of clean water from WCA-3 into Northeast Shark River Slough in Everglades National Park.
    On Feb. 26, 2016, Governor Rick Scott signed Executive Order 16-59, which declares a state of emergency in Lee, Martin and St. Lucie counties, following heavy rainfall that has resulted in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers frequently discharging water from Lake Okeechobee to the St. Lucie and Caloosahatchee estuaries. This is a result of inadequate funding by the federal government. Governor Scott called on the Obama Administration to fully fund the more than $800 million in needed repairs to the federally operated Herbert Hoover Dike to safely hold water to prevent these discharges. To view the Executive Order, click here.
    On Feb. 11, 2016, Governor Rick Scott requested that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers take immediate action to relieve flooding of the Everglades Water Conservation Areas and the releases of water from Lake Okeechobee to the Caloosahatchee and St. Lucie estuaries. Click here to read the letter.
    The Florida Department of Environmental Protection and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) issued orders on Feb. 11, 2016, that would allow the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to move forward with this request. Click here to read the orders.
    On Feb. 15, 2016, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers agreed to Governor Scott’s request to raise water levels in the L-29 canal in order to move water south through Shark River Slough to ease the effects of flooding in the Everglades. The South Florida Water Management District began operation of the S-333 structure at 5:30 p.m. on Feb. 15, 2016, after the state received an order from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    Well, there's that. :grin

    Thanks Ron.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • sonofagunnsonofagunn Posts: 66 Greenhorn
    Regardless of where the phosphorous comes from - or even if it were completely cleaned up - the Caloosahatchee and St Lucie rivers/estuaries would be better off if the releases were stopped and the water sent south to the Everglades and Florida Bay. Those 2 places would also benefit from additional fresh water. And sugar land could be purchased to store and clean the water on its way.

    The state and feds have a plan, they just need to respect the voters' wishes and implement it.
  • toomertoomer Posts: 348 Deckhand
    sonofagunn wrote: »
    Regardless of where the phosphorous comes from - or even if it were completely cleaned up - the Caloosahatchee and St Lucie rivers/estuaries would be better off if the releases were stopped and the water sent south to the Everglades and Florida Bay. Those 2 places would also benefit from additional fresh water. And sugar land could be purchased to store and clean the water on its way.

    The state and feds have a plan, they just need to respect the voters' wishes and implement it.


    $$$$$$???????
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    sonofagunn wrote: »
    The state and feds have a plan, they just need to respect the voters' wishes and implement it.

    The CERP and CEPP plans does not include the purchase of any additional properties south of Lake Okeechobee. Additional storage may be achieved on properties already available for that purpose.

    It is more critical to locate a storage reservoir to the north of Lake Okeechobee to intercept flows containing high nutrient concentrations from the Kissimmee basin.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    The CERP and CEPP plans does not include the purchase of any additional properties south of Lake Okeechobee. Additional storage may be achieved on properties already available for that purpose.

    It is more critical to locate a storage reservoir to the north of Lake Okeechobee to intercept flows containing high nutrient concentrations from the Kissimmee basin.
    Ain't no sugar farms there???
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    Nope.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    We need to organize the folks here at bullsugar.org, Florida Sportsman and South Florida Wildlands Association to help bring all the interested parties together. Like this and send them a comment if you are in favor, maybe we can get some help and make this happen.

    :hail
    sonofagunn wrote: »
    Regardless of where the phosphorous comes from - or even if it were completely cleaned up - the Caloosahatchee and St Lucie rivers/estuaries would be better off if the releases were stopped and the water sent south to the Everglades and Florida Bay. Those 2 places would also benefit from additional fresh water. And sugar land could be purchased to store and clean the water on its way.

    The state and feds have a plan, they just need to respect the voters' wishes and implement it.

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?224097-STOP-the-discharges!!!!!
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,671 Captain
    Most that live in this state aren't aware that Florida has more cattle than Texas (if what I've read was the truth....). Cattle and other agricultural activities generate a bunch of nutrients (very bad news for natural waters since they should be almost nutrient free for things like the Everglades to work properly) as part of their operations... The good news is that it is possible for agriculture (big or small) to do quite a bit to clean up their discharges before sending them downstream.... It has been done, and is being done by responsible farmers and live stock operators. Yes, there's a cost involved, but if the state mandates it we could clean up all of our discharges (and that includes every homeowner since all the chemicals and fertilizers we use do end up downstream, somewhere...).

    Of course it's much easier to blame "big sugar" or other corporate operations than actually do something that might generate good results (but wouldn't get this or that politician re-elected since hard choices have to be made...).
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • toomertoomer Posts: 348 Deckhand
    lemaymiami wrote: »
    Most that live in this state aren't aware that Florida has more cattle than Texas (if what I've read was the truth....). Cattle and other agricultural activities generate a bunch of nutrients (very bad news for natural waters since they should be almost nutrient free for things like the Everglades to work properly) as part of their operations... The good news is that it is possible for agriculture (big or small) to do quite a bit to clean up their discharges before sending them downstream.... It has been done, and is being done by responsible farmers and live stock operators. Yes, there's a cost involved, but if the state mandates it we could clean up all of our discharges (and that includes every homeowner since all the chemicals and fertilizers we use do end up downstream, somewhere...).

    Of course it's much easier to blame "big sugar" or other corporate operations than actually do something that might generate good results (but wouldn't get this or that politician re-elected since hard choices have to be made...).

    You all may remember the big fight against ag up in the Chesapeake region and the industrial Carolina hog farms. Ag's response was pretty effective. Things like no-till crop production and other management techniques have helped a lot.

    Still, large scale stock operations like the dairy farms in central Fla are really big s**t producers and it is very expensive (and in wet times nearly impossible) to treat/leach that out on-site.
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    [video=youtube_share;5UskNfUUA8I]

    http://gladesdeclaration.org/
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • The mis-information is astounding!
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    Its a campaign of disinformation.

    The sad thing is the campaign is economically suicidal.

    All the businesses, the hotels , the guides, the realtors, the chambers of commerce are screaming about an environmental crisis, which at the heart of it is that the water is a darker brown than it usually is. No fish are dying (in fact the fishing is pretty good look at the reports) and no one is hospitalized or developing Alzheimer's, from exposure to mysterious and unnamed toxins.

    No health advisors advocate beaches be closed.

    No one is drowning in flood waters as in other parts of the country or having their stuff float away either. That would be a real catastrophe.

    So instead of telling their businesses and clients that it's a temporary situation and the result of the weather, they turn them away and say the sugar industry has poisoned the water. And the not killing fish and people will continue to not happen until the state taxes the bejesus out of them to buy all the agricultural property used for sugar farms which produces none of the brown water or the slime in their back yard canals.

    So it's a crisis all right. A created crisis of agriculture politics that they are sacrificing their livelihoods in pursuit of. Sadder still is they don't even get that they are devaluing their own property and poisoning their own business models.

    But they read it on the internet! Its pop- social media generated hysteria.

    Right here on Florida Sportsman.

    I'll retire to bedlam.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    Gary like before and just like now you seem to know everything when in fact your just a keyboard junkie that causes more problems because your NEVER on anyone's side of a decent post.. same old same and you make one post after another where you are the best in all fields
    what do you propose since we all have to see your aggravating stance for years on end and your constant arguments on everything
    basically you don't do horse poop about anything but type against everyone or anything important..
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    You screw with everyone but take no accountability nor do you see whats really going on
    Ron rips the reefs and your buddies and you rip people but you never do anything but cross people for fun what a joke
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    Gary like before and just like now you seem to know everything when in fact your just a keyboard junkie that causes more problems because your NEVER on anyone's side of a decent post.. same old same and you make one post after another where you are the best in all fields
    what do you propose since we all have to see your aggravating stance for years on end and your constant arguments on everything
    basically you don't do horse poop about anything but type against everyone or anything important..

    Actually I do this kind of thing for a living.

    Do you have any experience in Everglades restoration or water resources that you'd like to share?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Pucker FactorPucker Factor Posts: 875 Officer
    Gary, keep up the good work and don't bite on the trolling.

    It is a challenging subject matter for even those directly involved. I am glad you have a handle on this subject to convey the necessary information without getting into the gory details that most do not concern themselves with but are absolutely vital to understanding the situation with all of the noise that is currently being generated about the overly simplistic and incorrect response to just buy more land. Doesn't work.
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    yes I do Gary, we did lots of water sampling these last years with a lot of people and schools (much of which as you know are thrown away due to lobbyist and political interest groups) (they tend to do their own studies).. (eis reports 8 books thick where you cannot understand what the hell is going on..) if your little clique cannot understand that we are screwing the land and water up as fast as we can because of the confusion between the ranks of leaders we have then you miss the point.. we are shipping sand and rock away from s. florida as fast as they can dig it and load the train.. we even have a conveyor belt to run it under the road.. (but you know that!) we screw our reefs for shipping and dredging.. we plug one after another new homes into old infrastructure like there is no problem.. truth is you could look back at every post you write here and find YOU really never amount to nothing but an argument to others be it environment or fisheries. well i guess your clique of people know that.. your almost like a Rick Scott.. do nothing
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    Please post your data, including meta data, sampling methodologies , QA,/QC protocols and their publications so that we may discuss it employing less emotional and personal invectives .

    Thanks.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 2,913 Captain
    Can the state ban septic systems by county?
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,671 Captain
    The legislature can pass a law that outlaws them... but legislatures (like county commissioners) get elected (and would probably like to keep getting elected...) so we're back to the nitty gritty. Everyone knows that septic tanks have bad consequences but they're a lot cheaper than the very real cost to install a proper sewer system (and have been in place for years and years behind many, many properties unless you're in a city where they long ago installed proper waste management procedures...). What's needed is for voters in each county (or in a majority of the state if you want to go that route...) to agree that it's time we cleaned up...

    Where all of us CAN help is to speak up and support those forces advocating the end of septic tanks (and no grandfathering since that's how many of the existing ones have been in place for years...). Remember as well that it you're not in a city - there will never be a sewer system - a septic tank is all you'll ever have.... If we can convince a majority to vote for an end to them where possible (whether it's one county at a time or all in one deal from the state) it will happen. Most citizens, though, aren't anglers or hunters (or very knowledgable about what's needed to keep our waters clean and have a healthy eco-system...) but they do know when they're going to have to pay more each year if a sewer system is needed..... So, we come full circle about why we've got these problems (and I can remember talking about them more than 30 years ago...). Septic tanks can be found everywhere in Florida (think they're even still in the Keys....).
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    My septic tank and 4' leach field are all that's keeping the oaks and cedars alive in my yard..

    All the rest of the trees on my property are dying do to saltwater intrusion and being replaced by mangrove trees.
    Wasn't any mangrove trees here in 1960..

    keep building along the sand ridges and the recharge areas and watch the coast die.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,905 AG
    You have some problems up there Art. I spent three days touring the bay and got some money from the WMD to buy another harvester for the city.

    Your problems are just as important as those in the south.

    I felt really badly about what I saw. But that's a ground water issue closely linked to cattle agriculture. I honestly have no idea how to fix that.

    You live in a beautiful place. I am fortunate that my job let me experience it.

    We missed our martini, BTW.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    You have some problems up there Art. I spent three days touring the bay and got some money from the WMD to buy another harvester for the city.

    Your problems are just as important as those in the south.

    I felt really badly about what I saw. But that's a ground water issue closely linked to cattle agriculture. I honestly have no idea how to fix that.

    You live in a beautiful place. I am fortunate that my job let me experience it.

    We missed our martini, BTW.
    I,m good for that martini Gary.
    One day.

    I'd like to show you how our hammocks are dying, I really don't think is the cattle industry.
    I see that industry shrinking(Frank Stronach nonwithstanding) but I don't see development of the Central Ridge slowing.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    4 acres per cow (western levy county) doesn't use the water that 5 acres per home does..

    I know the dairies use more but still.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • silentfaithsilentfaith Posts: 362 Deckhand
    gang, good folks, people of florida you are all being hoodwinked and lied to. the sugar farmers who are being subsidised by our government are using that money to pay off most of florida's politicians to keep things exactly the way it is now. no if's and's or but's about it.
    the simple plan is to buy sugar from cuba who has way too much of it and trade our abundant cattle to cuba who needs it. but no. won't happen if rubio and scott has anything to say about it. there pocketing way to much under the table money. so, we loose again and again.
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 2,913 Captain
    gang, good folks, people of florida you are all being hoodwinked and lied to. the sugar farmers who are being subsidised by our government are using that money to pay off most of florida's politicians to keep things exactly the way it is now. no if's and's or but's about it.
    the simple plan is to buy sugar from cuba who has way too much of it and trade our abundant cattle to cuba who needs it. but no. won't happen if rubio and scott has anything to say about it. there pocketing way to much under the table money. so, we loose again and again.

    Your message comes off as one who is ruled by delusional thoughts.

    Have you any evidence to support this?
  • notreelynotreely Posts: 653 Officer
    H20dad wrote: »
    Your message comes off as one who is ruled by delusional thoughts.

    Have you any evidence to support this?

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/rubio-and-big-sugar-1446769246
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