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red snapper in state waters

dogs lifedogs life Posts: 25 Greenhorn
I has asked some fwc officer's about it and the two I asked had to look it up and came back to me with yes you can keep 2 per person in the state waters(with in 3 miles) so I asked how do I prove where I caught the red snapper.i was told by them not to have them in the ice cooler and go out past the 3 mile range but I could come in and catch them and keep them that are caught in the 3 mile range with out a problem as the officers would have to prove the fish was not caught in state waters.

Replies

  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    The Law basically applies to where it's legal to 'Possess' them... You cannot "Catch(Keep) or Possess" them in Fed. Waters...
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • FLCoyoteFLCoyote Posts: 271 Deckhand
    If Law Enforcement GPS tracking radar shows you coming in from Federal waters and it will and you haven't stopped and it will show that too, and you have Red Snapper on board when Federal waters are closed, you can be cited. Before Jun 1, a group of local anglers caught some Snapper in State waters, then crossed into Federal waters and caught some Grouper (Closed) at that time. They were stopped crossing back into state waters and the FWC advised them that they were being written up for possession of Snapper and Closed Grouper in Federal waters. They told the FWC that they had caught the Snapper in State water and as they had been stopped in state waters that they were legal. The FWC reply was that they had the electronic tracking records showing no stops after coming back into state water and that was sufficient for the citation. I believe the case was turned over to the Feds for further action. For those non-believers I can assure you that every boat going out the pass is tracked and stops marked by GPS location and is tracked all the way until you get back. I was on a friends boat twice when we came back in from about 50 miles out and the Coast Guard stopped us coming in the pass. Again you are being tracked as long as you are on the gulf. They don't have to look for you, just go to the coordinates that were radioed to them. Homeland Security and the Coast Guard work closely with the FWC and share information all day. The best way to not get caught is not to break the law. Big Brother is watching you all the time.
  • NOAA-EnforcementNOAA-Enforcement Posts: 202 Moderator
    If Federal Waters are closed and State Waters open, for any species, don't catch that species and then run out into Federal Waters. Federal Regulations is a possession regulation.
    My purpose on this site is to help everyone understand Federal Fishery Regulations and to provide information. Working with the Florida Sportsman is a collateral (volunteer) duty I asked for and enjoy; I will only give you an answer that I’m willing to put my name on and stand behind. Sometimes that means checking with other agents/offices in the area of concern.
    Please Stay Safe And Have A Wonderful Day.
    Special Agent Allan Coker
    NOAA's Office For Fishery Law Enforcement
  • dogs lifedogs life Posts: 25 Greenhorn
    Thanks for thei fo from both of you two.IWould just like to be clear if I am outof state waters(3 miles or more) I can not have a red snapper on board my boat no matter where we caught them but if on our way back in with in the state waters(less than 3 miles of shore) and westop and catch a legal size red snapper thenwe can keep them as long as we do not go back outside of state waters for any reason, correct.
    thanks again for the info and all the work youall do for us.
  • drgibbydrgibby Posts: 1,786 Captain
    FLCoyote wrote: »
    If Law Enforcement GPS tracking radar shows you coming in from Federal waters and it will and you haven't stopped and it will show that too, and you have Red Snapper on board when Federal waters are closed, you can be cited. Before Jun 1, a group of local anglers caught some Snapper in State waters, then crossed into Federal waters and caught some Grouper (Closed) at that time. They were stopped crossing back into state waters and the FWC advised them that they were being written up for possession of Snapper and Closed Grouper in Federal waters. They told the FWC that they had caught the Snapper in State water and as they had been stopped in state waters that they were legal. The FWC reply was that they had the electronic tracking records showing no stops after coming back into state water and that was sufficient for the citation. I believe the case was turned over to the Feds for further action. For those non-believers I can assure you that every boat going out the pass is tracked and stops marked by GPS location and is tracked all the way until you get back. I was on a friends boat twice when we came back in from about 50 miles out and the Coast Guard stopped us coming in the pass. Again you are being tracked as long as you are on the gulf. They don't have to look for you, just go to the coordinates that were radioed to them. Homeland Security and the Coast Guard work closely with the FWC and share information all day. The best way to not get caught is not to break the law. Big Brother is watching you all the time.

    I find this very hard to believe. If this were the case why does it take a week, with multiple air assets, to find a missing boat?
  • FLCoyoteFLCoyote Posts: 271 Deckhand
    drgibby, hard to believe yes. This is what the anglers were told by the FWC. They were also told to stand by to hear from the Feds. A local charter boat captain told my son that what they could expect was a federal court date and a stiff fine. I know for sure that boats are tracked by radar as I've been in the building where the tracking is done. Don't know about the missing boat searches. Surveillance is probably a lot more intense during differing state and federal seasons. Also several charters far offshore have been checked by Homeland security boats. I'm pretty sure they aren't sight checking them. The FWC officers that stopper the boat with the Snapper and Grouper told the anglers they had their recorded tracks. I wasn't there so can't swear to what was actually said. I do know that the anglers involved are sweating out a possible Federal l court appearance. I have personally been checked coming in off the gulf from 40/50 miles out enough times to think they were waiting for boats coming in from long distances.
  • J-SeaJ-Sea Posts: 202 Officer
    Has anyone had this happen in the Atlantic?
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 10,800 AG
    FLCoyote wrote: »
    drgibby, hard to believe yes. This is what the anglers were told by the FWC. They were also told to stand by to hear from the Feds. A local charter boat captain told my son that what they could expect was a federal court date and a stiff fine. I know for sure that boats are tracked by radar as I've been in the building where the tracking is done. Don't know about the missing boat searches. Surveillance is probably a lot more intense during differing state and federal seasons. Also several charters far offshore have been checked by Homeland security boats. I'm pretty sure they aren't sight checking them. The FWC officers that stopper the boat with the Snapper and Grouper told the anglers they had their recorded tracks. I wasn't there so can't swear to what was actually said. I do know that the anglers involved are sweating out a possible Federal l court appearance. I have personally been checked coming in off the gulf from 40/50 miles out enough times to think they were waiting for boats coming in from long distances.

    Commercial vessels have to have VMS transponders but I find it hard to believe that they can track every recreational vessel. The agency might have happened to ping them on the radar to get their location and course and then did a check but they do not have the resources to do this to all vessels as far as I know.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    FLCoyote wrote: »
    drgibby, hard to believe yes. This is what the anglers were told by the FWC.

    Do you think they are obligated to tell you the truth?:rotflmao

    Like any other law enforcement while conducting an interview, they can tell you anything they think you may believe or might get you to make a confession of guilt or intent.

    Likewise you can be untruthful with them, however if they think they can prove your untruthfulness they can always charge you with some kind of interference or obstruction of LEO offense.

    Deck is kinda stacked in their favor, just the way it is.:shrug
  • HurricaneBKHurricaneBK Posts: 213 Deckhand
    conchydong wrote: »
    Commercial vessels have to have VMS transponders but I find it hard to believe that they can track every recreational vessel. The agency might have happened to ping them on the radar to get their location and course and then did a check but they do not have the resources to do this to all vessels as far as I know.

    I agree. It's hard to imagine there's a room somewhere with a radar display tracking all boats in the gulf much like an air traffic control center, they just don't have the resources for that. In addition if such capabilities exist, why do vessels smuggling migrants and narcotics still make it to South Florida? Surely the relatively narrows Straights of Florida would be easier and more important to monitor for vessels involved in smuggling than dedicating the assets to fisheries violations in the GoM.

    Now, if an enforcement agency has a vessel offshore and it sees you on radar which could easily cover 20 miles in each direction for a boat size object, they'll divert over to you and check things out. But to think there is an all encompassing surveillance net monitoring anyone who goes offshore in the GoM is a little extreme.

    The law in this case seems pretty clear cut though, if you're going to fish ARS in state waters make that your trip for the day or do it as the last thing with clear evidence you stopped and fished in state waters.
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  • Third CoastThird Coast Posts: 3 Greenhorn
    They can certainly put a tag on your boat and track you all day long. I really doubt they're tracking every single boat in the gulf, but I know for a fact this same thing happened here in Texas out of port mansfield. I think it has more to do with game wardens (federal), getting a tip about someone fishing illegally.
  • southtxsouthtx Posts: 25 Greenhorn
    LEO can certainly put a tag on any target of interest and track it, happens all the time. However, certainly almost all boats are not purposely tracked and/or targeted. There are systems that show any boat with AIS capability where they are, and if the system has been interrupted/turned off. A lot of commercial guys turn them off when they go to their honey holes, as some have scalped some #'s from the AIS track system.
  • frankiezfrankiez Posts: 396 Deckhand
    I thought STATE waters extended to 9 miles?
  • ChillyChilly Posts: 567 Officer
    9 miles in gulf, 3 miles in atlantic

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  • SpineymanSpineyman Destin, FlPosts: 8,377 Admiral
    frankiez wrote: »
    I thought STATE waters extended to 9 miles?

    9 miles in the Gulf and 3 miles in the Atlantic.
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!

    II Chronicles 7:14
    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • If you are dumb enough to have an AIS transmitting you could get caught.

    Funny story on that, When FWC on the East coast first got AIS, they used to run it all the time on the water. You could go to Marine Traffic app and watch then go up and down the ICWW or offshore all day long.
    Eventually someone got smart and turned them off.
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