female players accuse U.S. soccer federation of wage discrimination

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Replies

  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    greggl wrote: »
    once a marketability threshold has been reached, that's the case. there are also redistributive aspects via the union contract. ideally, all the boats rise when those working under the contract deliver. that part is negotiated.

    LOL you really try hard
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,437 AG
    First point, ,,, whichever generates the most income should garner the greatest return.




    Second point, ,,,,it is soccer, ,,I do not care if it goes away tomorrow.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    First point, ,,, whichever generates the most income should garner the greatest return

    and if that isn't what happens?
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,437 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    and if that isn't what happens?

    I believe that is what is happening. Women's sports rarely compare to their men's counterparts when concidering income generation.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    I believe that is what is happening. Women's sports rarely compare to their men's counterparts when concidering income generation.

    the league is healthy enough to negotiate the same base deal and performance based incentives. tie the salary cap to league income.

    it's not fundamentally cheaper for women to be athletes.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    greggl wrote: »
    the league is healthy enough to negotiate the same base deal and performance based incentives. tie the salary cap to league income.

    it's not fundamentally cheaper for women to be athletes.


    your wrong they are not the top athletes in their sport
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    fins4me wrote: »
    I believe that is what is happening. Women's sports rarely compare to their men's counterparts when concidering income generation.

    its the same thing with the Vols football team substandard in the SEC not very popular :grin
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Finfinder wrote: »
    your wrong they are not the top athletes in their sport

    parts of it are still just a 'job' with all kinds of cross linked negotiations influencing rates and leverage.

    hence, agents. negotiations start with a base contract and there is zero reason for that base to be different.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    greggl wrote: »
    parts of it are still just a 'job' with all kinds of cross linked negotiations influencing rates and leverage.

    hence, agents. negotiations start with a base contract and there is zero reason for that base to be different.

    that reply is typical of your resume as a bull sheet artists on this forum.... its hilarious how you have no idea how sports work but try to keep up with the discussion.

    why do you think all the major sports leagues have no competition?
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Finfinder wrote: »
    Again what is your point that isn't already a "given" ? Whats your end game here ?

    everyone is negotiating with the same handful of companies in the end.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,437 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    the league is healthy enough to negotiate the same base deal and performance based incentives. tie the salary cap to league income.

    it's not fundamentally cheaper for women to be athletes.

    That is stupid. I pay employees based off of the value of their knowledge base, the financial value of their contributions and the level of difficulty I would have replacing them. In other words those who are worth more are paid more. Fairness is not a worthy component of the employee -employer equation.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    and there there are the unions and agents...

    SAG, Players Unions, agents, brand commercials - same business.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,022 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    the league is healthy enough to negotiate the same base deal and performance based incentives. tie the salary cap to league income.

    it's not fundamentally cheaper for women to be athletes.

    Tie the salary cap to league income?

    Do you realize how much more money men's World Cup soccer brings in than Women's?

    That would be why more money is paid out to the men's teams. There isn't interest worldwide in women's soccer. Our women's World Cup winners can't even beat a team of pubescent high school boys.

    I realize in your ideal world everyone gets a trophy, and understand the reason you can't keep a job is because you've been under the illusion you should make as much as the CEO.

    Both assumptions of yours are wrong.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    agree Greg has an agenda

    however some assumptions you may have missed

    first this has nothing to do with the women's ability beat the men or boys I don't know why you all keep bringing that up it has nothing to do with world cup, everybody knows men athletes are bigger and stronger its not even an argument

    second this is not a league in the sense of its driven by profits its pro athletes from United States representing their country

    'You play to win the game"
    Herman Edwards

    uswntsoccer.jpg
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    how about that?
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,022 Captain
    Finfinder wrote: »
    agree Greg has an agenda

    however some assumptions you may have missed

    first this has nothing to do with the women's ability beat the men or boys I don't know why you all keep bringing that up it has nothing to do with world cup, everybody knows men athletes are bigger and stronger its not even an argument

    second this is not a league in the sense of its driven by profits its pro athletes from United States representing their country

    'You play to win the game"
    Herman Edwards

    uswntsoccer.jpg

    Projecting 2018 versus 2015?

    There's a reason Germany received $35 million for a men's championship, while the US women made around $2 million.

    Women's soccer sold about $17 million in ads, which was up from about $6 million during the previous women's Cup.

    Men's soccer sold somewhere around $539 million.


    "How about that"?

    The only valid argument you have listed is the $15 daily difference in per diem, which should be equal.

    Gregg keeps confusing women's major league soccer with World Cup soccer, they're two separate entities.

    The fact the women represent the US doesn't factor in to the argument in any way. We have athletes representing the US in Olympic wrestling, weightlifting, snowboarding, curling, and archery. How much do we increase their salaries?

    It's great the women's soccer team has had success beating other women's soccer teams from other countries. Doesn't change the fact there's limited interest in those countries, and doesn't change the fact the compeitition is so weak they can't beat 16 year old boys.

    They won. Yay. They're the tallest midget in a room full of midgets. That doesn't explain why "someone" needs to pay them more money for winning a tournament that has little interest compared to men's compeitition.

    I was in Italy when they hosted the men's Cup. The entire country was nuts. To somewhat match the enthusiasm in the US, you'd have to combine the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA finals, the 4th of July hot dog eating championship, plus giving away free stuff at an Occupy rally...and you still wouldn't match it.

    We simply don't have the interest, even for the men. The only reason they make what they do is international interest, if they had to rely on homegrown interest they'd struggle.

    I was at a function this past weekend, talked to a few husbands/wives who had daughters playing Rec soccer. None off the moms could name any of the women's team. They said they watched the women's championship, but not because they knew anything about the team...they watched because it was pinging on social media and the local bars had good drink/food specials during the Cup. Other than watching their kids they all admitted they'd rather watch paint dry than watch soccer.

    The men did slightly better. They knew Hope Solo, but only because she'd had nude pictures posted on the Internet. They remembered the gal a few years ago that took off her jersey and was running around in a sports bra. That's it. In fairness, they didn't know any of the men's team.

    The only guy that knew any of the players on either team was a ringer, he came here from Trinidad and played pro soccer in the 90's and early 2000's, and still has national and international soccer connections.
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    riverdiver wrote: »
    Projecting 2018 versus 2015?


    We simply don't have the interest, even for the men. The only reason they make what they do is international interest, if they had to rely on homegrown interest they'd struggle.

    I was at a function this past weekend, talked to a few husbands/wives who had daughters playing Rec soccer. None off the moms could name any of the women's team. They said they watched the women's championship, but not because they knew anything about the team...they watched because it was pinging on social media and the local bars had good drink/food specials during the Cup. Other than watching their kids they all admitted they'd rather watch paint dry than watch soccer.

    .

    True, soccer is not a game made for TV.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    riverdiver wrote: »
    The fact the women represent the US doesn't factor in to the argument in any way. We have athletes representing the US in Olympic wrestling, weightlifting, snowboarding, curling, and archery. How much do we increase their salaries?

    They do it by figiting for increased participation in their own revenue streams. Smaller, specialty niche markets are lucrative.

    The disparity between the men's and women's contracts is leverage. they are using it.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,022 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    They do it by figiting for increased participation in their own revenue streams. Smaller, specialty niche markets are lucrative.

    The disparity between the men's and women's contracts is leverage. they are using it.

    The disparity between the men's and women's teams is the money...$539 million in interest versus $17 million in interest.

    The women are trying to capitalize on the current bizarre theory that everyone deserves a cookie, and if you don't agree you're racist, sexist, bigoted, homophobic, or heartless.

    If they can increase viewership and ad sales, they should get paid more. If interest hangs somewhere between pro bowling and pro strudel eating, they shouldn't.

    Same deal with women's major league soccer...the leagues keep folding because of lack of interest. Your theory is those players deserve more money, "just because". Same reason you keep quitting jobs, you think you should be paid equal to the CEO, "just because".

    The leagues keep going bankrupt because the interest isn't there.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    riverdiver wrote: »
    If they can increase viewership and ad sales, they should get paid more.

    And they did.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    riverdiver wrote: »
    Projecting 2018 versus 2015?

    Why 2018 and 2015 because of the contract years in place, what do you suggest we use. You do understand this whole issue is basically the women using whatever leverage they can to negotiate their new contract. Wouldn't you?

    There's a reason Germany received $35 million for a men's championship, while the US women made around $2 million.

    Women's soccer sold about $17 million in ads, which was up from about $6 million during the previous women's Cup.

    Men's soccer sold somewhere around $539 million.

    Again who cares I'm not arguing the math if you took the time to read the thread you wouldn't argue with me on this.


    "How about that"?

    The only valid argument you have listed is the $15 daily difference in per diem, which should be equal.

    Gregg keeps confusing women's major league soccer with World Cup soccer, they're two separate entities.

    The fact the women represent the US doesn't factor in to the argument in any way. We have athletes representing the US in Olympic wrestling, weightlifting, snowboarding, curling, and archery. How much do we increase their salaries?

    The Olympics are a sporting competition its not a league and btw I cant find the article but Im pretty sure the men and women Olympic team are paid the same except the men cant seem qualify for the Olympics s

    It's great the women's soccer team has had success beating other women's soccer teams from other countries. Doesn't change the fact there's limited interest in those countries, and doesn't change the fact the compeitition is so weak they can't beat 16 year old boys.


    They won. Yay. They're the tallest midget in a room full of midgets. That doesn't explain why "someone" needs to pay them more money for winning a tournament that has little interest compared to men's compeitition.



    I was in Italy when they hosted the men's Cup. The entire country was nuts. To somewhat match the enthusiasm in the US, you'd have to combine the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA finals, the 4th of July hot dog eating championship, plus giving away free stuff at an Occupy rally...and you still wouldn't match it.

    We simply don't have the interest, even for the men. The only reason they make what they do is international interest, if they had to rely on homegrown interest they'd struggle.

    I was at a function this past weekend, talked to a few husbands/wives who had daughters playing Rec soccer. None off the moms could name any of the women's team. They said they watched the women's championship, but not because they knew anything about the team...they watched because it was pinging on social media and the local bars had good drink/food specials during the Cup. Other than watching their kids they all admitted they'd rather watch paint dry than watch soccer.

    The men did slightly better. They knew Hope Solo, but only because she'd had nude pictures posted on the Internet. They remembered the gal a few years ago that took off her jersey and was running around in a sports bra. That's it. In fairness, they didn't know any of the men's team.

    The only guy that knew any of the players on either team was a ringer, he came here from Trinidad and played pro soccer in the 90's and early 2000's, and still has national and international soccer connections.

    :willynilly


    As far as the rest of your rant its funny I'm guessing when you compete you strive for 3rd place. You saying its irrelevant they win is funny. I don't live in some narrow boxed in black and white world you seem to argue. Its not there job to be profitable nor promote and sometimes there should exceptions, especially when its earned.( on the field).
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,444 AG
    cpr wrote: »
    True, soccer is not a game made for TV.

    It's actually not a game anyone in the USA wants to watch EVER. (save a World Cup when ABSOLUTELY nothing else in sports is worth watching. :Spittingcoffee ) Soccer is a sport only the frail youngsters play in the US and give it up when their hormones kick in and play football or basketball, occasionally baseball if they have talent to make it to the minor leagues or better. After a youngster graduates from high school no one gives two chits about soccer in this country. Commie ball is not an American past time past middle school. That's just the way it is. Just like no other country gives two chits about women's soccer. When the planet start paying attention to women's sports then the commercial sponsors, promoters, and like will start valuing those players and paying accordingly. Good god, much to do about nothing!! :Spittingcoffee
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,022 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    And they did.

    They got paid more. They made double what Japan made in the previous Cup.

    That's the point you budding young Cubanistas don't get...payments are made based on revenue.

    Women's revenue rose, but it's not even in the same galaxy as what the men bring in.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,022 Captain
    Finfinder wrote: »
    :willynilly

    Its not there job to be profitable nor promote and sometimes there should exceptions, especially when its earned.( on the field).

    Does minor league baseball make the same as MLB?

    Do Arena League players make what NFL guys make?

    Do WNBA players make the same as NBA players?

    Do LPGA players make as much as PGA players?

    No.

    Why?

    Smaller revenue streams.
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,444 AG
    riverdiver wrote: »
    They got paid more. They made double what Japan made in the previous Cup.

    That's the point you budding young Cubanistas don't get...payments are made based on revenue.

    Women's revenue rose, but it's not even in the same galaxy as what the men bring in.


    Funny thread isn't it? This could almost be moved to sports. Reminds me of the fsu whiners that they don't have a major conference sponsor. The fact is, nobody gives two chits about either women's soccer or ACC football. That's why they don't pass go, collect $200. They suck and nobody cares. It's not rocket science. Sports only generates money where interest is drawn. Those thundering hoards of 2000 Wake Forest fans screaming at the top of their lungs doesn't define a snakepit for visiting teams. :Spittingcoffee

    Good gawd..........a participation trophy for all. Lot's of Bernie Sanders fans here. :grin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 19,387 AG
    hey hey hey.... WF has a cute football stadium.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    riverdiver wrote: »
    Does minor league baseball make the same as MLB?

    Do Arena League players make what NFL guys make?

    Do WNBA players make the same as NBA players?

    Do LPGA players make as much as PGA players?

    No.

    Why?

    Smaller revenue streams.
    th

    gee captain obvious I think I stated reply after reply I understand the revenue streams

    those are all professional leagues with players unions

    players representing the USA to play in the Olympics or World Cup is a different animal
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,862 Admiral
    navigator2 wrote: »
    Funny thread isn't it? This could almost be moved to sports. Reminds me of the fsu whiners that they don't have a major conference sponsor. The fact is, nobody gives two chits about either women's soccer or ACC football. That's why they don't pass go, collect $200. They suck and nobody cares. It's not rocket science. Sports only generates money where interest is drawn. Those thundering hoards of 2000 Wake Forest fans screaming at the top of their lungs doesn't define a snakepit for visiting teams. :Spittingcoffee

    Good gawd..........a participation trophy for all. Lot's of Bernie Sanders fans here. :grin


    cant be moved to the sports section because its not all about the Gators or Noles ...... :grin
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