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I.R. Lagoon workshop

It was today... I attended along with Palm Beach Pete.

Indian River County Commission Chambers

1801 27th Street

Vero Beach, Florida 32960

Online registration at www.ircgov.com then follow the link on the home page.

For those who cannot attend you may watch the program live and reply on our local government channel or streaming live at www.ircgov.com

There will be two speakers that will present potential solutions for the IRL. A ocean to lagoon pumping station that has been operational in Destin Harbor that has proved to dramatically improve water quality. Also we will have a presentation on a water scrubbing technology that again is a proved success story. These and more speakers will present recent and potential solutions to help improve the water quality in the IRL.

Indian River Lagoon Workshop

“Are we making any progress?”

***********************



9:05-9:15******** 2016 Legislative update Representative Debbie Mayfield

As you can imagine...Not a lot of great news


9:15-9:40******** Indian River Lagoon Council

Indian River Lagoon National Estuary Program

*********************** Dr. Duane De Freese, Ph.D.

Dr DeFreese was at a meeting up in Brevard. He had an associate give the presentation.


9:40-10:00****** Fertilizer Enforcement / Storm Water Education

*********************** Alexis Peralta

All I can say is " A joke"...no way to really enforce...basicly just a partial year recommendation.

Indian River County Public Works

10:00-10:25**** Ground Water movement and Septic Tanks

Osprey South Relief Canal Algae Turf Scrubber

Vincent Burke PE

Indian River County Utilities Director

Gave some of the best info on work to remove N & P from water coming down the south relief canal. Also gave good information on what areas should be targeted for sewer in a prioratized way.


10:30-10:50**** Septic to Sewer and ways to get there.

Carter Taylor

Indian River Neighborhood Association

Vero Beach, Florida

Important info...but his presentation was way to long....people actually left....It was more geared to be a presentation to county commisioners and not lay public...and was drier than the Sahara desert.

10:50-11:15**** Seagrass and Water Quality

Dr. Charles Jacoby Environmental Scientist
St Johns River Water Management District
Palatka, Florida

As expected...a lot of dated material.... Mentioned that we peaked and were looking OK prior to 2009. Losses after that...some large. He feels that we are at about the same level of seagrass loss's as in 2012/13...but did not have the data.

11:15-11:40**** Nutrient remediation water technology. “Water Scrubbing”

Bill Eggers Scientist

AquaFiber®™ Winter Park, Florida

THIS...Was by far the best presentation with the most promise for a fast start that can provide measurable results. It is a private company... I suggest you look at their website...This, along with the needed infrastructure (sewer) would have a positive impact in both short and long term.

11:40-12:10**** Bethel Creek, Indian River Lagoon & Destin Harbor, what do they have in common?

Destin Harbor Pump Station
David Bazylak City of Destin, Florida

The answer...Not much! This project IMHO would not do what we need. The Destin harbor project is 220 acres.... To do this on any scale in our area would be very pricey. I see right thru the "pitch" since it is focused around Bethel creek... A high dollar area that is a backwater....This might provide some benefit to an isolated core of waterfront property owners...but VERY little to the system overall.

Both Pete and I spoke at the Q & A at the end

Anyway, Thanks go to Tim Zorc for spearheading this. We are moving forward...

Pete...add any more stuff you think is important.
There are many roads to travel
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
«1

Replies

  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,962 Captain
    Good stuff. Thanks.

    How did they say the pump station would work? Would they have to use an underground infrastructure to get it across the river?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
  • NoleLifeNoleLife Posts: 54 Deckhand
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    11:15-11:40**** Nutrient remediation water technology. “Water Scrubbing”

    Bill Eggers Scientist

    AquaFiber®™ Winter Park, Florida

    THIS...Was by far the best presentation with the most promise for a fast start that can provide measurable results. It is a private company... I suggest you look at their website...This, along with the needed infrastructure (sewer) would have a positive impact in both short and long term.

    if Im not mistaken, their technology is similar to that of an algae turf scrubber. reaching back to my comparison of the lagoon system to a marine aquarium, ATS systems are very popular in today's marine aquarium industry for nutrient removal. The biomass created is generally tossed, given to a friend to jump start their own ATS, or fed to the livestock in the tank.

    I've often wondered if any of these systems had been implemented along the lagoon/st johns for nutrient removal. the ability to use the algae byproduct as a renewable energy source or recycle it as an organic fertilizer on commercial farm land makes me think its a no brainer, but maybe that's exactly the issue. it makes too much sense.
  • saltyreefersaltyreefer Posts: 245 Deckhand
    AquaFiber®™ Winter Park, Florida

    THIS...Was by far the best presentation with the most promise for a fast start that can provide measurable results. It is a private company... I suggest you look at their website...This, along with the needed infrastructure (sewer) would have a positive impact in both short and long term.


    ^^^^
    This seems like what we use in the saltwater aquarium community called an algae turf scrubber . I haven't thought about it being used in such a large scale. We use them to remove nitrate/phosphate in the water.

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  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    He did not specify what the actual technology is... He did say some is proprietory. They did do a pilot project over 5 years on Lake Jessup....which was very successful.

    The Osprey Marsh project which was covered by Vincent Burke is an Algae scrubbing system. It is working...but is just not big enough even for the limited flow of the S. Relief canal.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • NoleLifeNoleLife Posts: 54 Deckhand
    AquaFiber®™ Winter Park, Florida

    THIS...Was by far the best presentation with the most promise for a fast start that can provide measurable results. It is a private company... I suggest you look at their website...This, along with the needed infrastructure (sewer) would have a positive impact in both short and long term.


    ^^^^
    This seems like what we use in the saltwater aquarium community called an algae turf scrubber . I haven't thought about it being used in such a large scale. We use them to remove nitrate/phosphate in the water.

    looks like we were on the same page lol

    they've actually been implemented in large scale applications before, even going back some 20+ years. there's a few videos on youtube and some articles/journals about their use in California and a few other places.


    duckmanjr, yeah I noticed their site didn't have much info on the technology itself. if he's developed a more efficient method of scrubbing, it should be worth considering (also think the aquarium industry would be willing to listen lol)
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,290 AG
    How do you pay for something like nutrient scrubbing on a scale big enough to help? Impact fees? RS says he does not see any immediate benefit so state funds are not likely to be flowing.
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • NoleLifeNoleLife Posts: 54 Deckhand
    its an investment. neither the state nor the environment would see any immediate return. it would take some time. that's probably the biggest issue, Rick Scott wont invest unless he can stand to make a quick buck (or create jobs), rather than looking at the bigger picture (when I say Rick Scott I really mean the state). He, and his successor, will regret his decision to not fund lagoon/everglades restoration projects when that $1B revenue number related to the lagoon/everglades starts to tumble.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Well, You need to look past Scott...who is on his way out. It will be incumbent on voters to find and elect the next Governor who is both knowledgeable and *COMMITTED*

    My best guess on funding would be a wide co-operative of both Local, State, Federal and probably the establishment of a taxing district covering the 5 county area. No different than the Water Mgmnt districts really..... tax those who are inside the effected area since they garner the most overall benefit.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,290 AG
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Well, You need to look past Scott...who is on his way out. It will be incumbent on voters to find and elect the next Governor who is both knowledgeable and *COMMITTED*

    My best guess on funding would be a wide co-operative of both Local, State, Federal and probably the establishment of a taxing district covering the 5 county area. No different than the Water Mgmnt districts really..... tax those who are inside the effected area since they garner the most overall benefit.

    They are also the biggest contributors i.e. fertilizer and septic runoff. Honestly I would not upset if the salt water license went up $1.00 or 2.00 for a finite amount of time and the proceeds went directly to the lagoon restoration system. Nothing wrong with my money going to where my line is.
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    They are also the biggest contributors i.e. fertilizer and septic runoff. Honestly I would not upset if the salt water license went up $1.00 or 2.00 for a finite amount of time and the proceeds went directly to the lagoon restoration system. Nothing wrong with my money going to where my line is.
    The problem is that would have to go by Scott desk (not happening)...and it ads a tax on people who are not part of the issue.
    If you lived in Pensacola...you might find it objectionable...

    a local district is the answer.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,290 AG
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    The problem is that would have to go by Scott desk (not happening)...and it ads a tax on people who are not part of the issue.
    If you lived in Pensacola...you might find it objectionable...

    a local district is the answer.

    Well i can definitely claim ignorance as to what the license I pay for goes to now anyway. You would think it went to pay for these projects and for FWC officers, but I really do not know.
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    Fisheries research and regulatory law enforcement.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Big WormBig Worm Posts: 61 Deckhand
    I have no love for grass or tru-green or anything like that. But I would imagine their watered down liquid product is less of a problem than Johnny homeowner overdoing it with granular stuff. One thing for sure grass is not going away. The "river" has been nasty for a long time.
  • Net 30Net 30 Posts: 1,033 Officer
    Here is a great link to an interview of Duane De Freese, Ph.D, executive director of the Indian River Lagoon National Estuary Program:

    http://www.floridatoday.com/videos/news/local/environment/lagoon/2016/03/30/82421882/
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,290 AG
    Big Worm wrote: »
    I have no love for grass or tru-green or anything like that. But I would imagine their watered down liquid product is less of a problem than Johnny homeowner overdoing it with granular stuff. One thing for sure grass is not going away. The "river" has been nasty for a long time.

    I disagree just because I know most lawn and ornamental companies still use a granular fertilizer twice a year. The rest of the time they spray iron and Bifenthrin, then do a walk through with a backpack full of herbacide.

    Most L&O companies also do granular fertilizer for shrubs and ornamental foliage as well as spraying horticulture oil twice a year too. Big business to be made from landscaping chemicals.
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • saltyreefersaltyreefer Posts: 245 Deckhand
    They are also the biggest contributors i.e. fertilizer and septic runoff. Honestly I would not upset if the salt water license went up $1.00 or 2.00 for a finite amount of time and the proceeds went directly to the lagoon restoration system. Nothing wrong with my money going to where my line is.

    I too would not flinch at a raise in the salt water license!!
  • bbailey_33bbailey_33 Posts: 88 Greenhorn
    Net 30 wrote: »
    Here is a great link to an interview of Duane De Freese, Ph.D, executive director of the Indian River Lagoon National Estuary Program:

    http://www.floridatoday.com/videos/news/local/environment/lagoon/2016/03/30/82421882/

    Saw that on tv other night... very informative, but did not give me the impression any change will be noticed for WAY too long...
    To his credit, he did stress the amount of sludge/muck is a way bigger factor than anyone else is mentioning (giant factor in my book, maybe #1)
    He totally skirted the argument about opening the lockes at CAN.
    Kept talking about only having natural inlets when the subject of an inlet between Seb and Ponce.
    We all know 1:Sebastian was cut by man (seems pretty stable there) 2:There used to be a natural inlet near 5th st CCB (why not restore it) 3:The cruise industry wants the lockes left closed so they don't have the expense of periodically dredging the channel.(usually $$ is the main reason)
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Ongoing maintenance at Sebastian cost a lot of money...so much so...it has an independent taxing district.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,290 AG
    bbailey_33 wrote: »
    Saw that on tv other night... very informative, but did not give me the impression any change will be noticed for WAY too long...
    To his credit, he did stress the amount of sludge/muck is a way bigger factor than anyone else is mentioning (giant factor in my book, maybe #1)
    He totally skirted the argument about opening the lockes at CAN.
    Kept talking about only having natural inlets when the subject of an inlet between Seb and Ponce.
    We all know 1:Sebastian was cut by man (seems pretty stable there) 2:There used to be a natural inlet near 5th st CCB (why not restore it) 3:The cruise industry wants the lockes left closed so they don't have the expense of periodically dredging the channel.(usually $$ is the main reason)
    Thanks, I wondered why the locks existed in the first place.
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • DoradoDorado Posts: 400 Deckhand
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Ongoing maintenance of the Indian River Lagoon costs a lot of money...so much so...it has an independent taxing district.

    Sorry Duck... methinks I fixed it for you!:wink Wishful thinking, I know. Methinks it might have been your suggestion earlier in this thread. Thank you and Palm Beach Pete for getting out there, and bringing it all succinctly back to us! I for one, appreciate it!

    I now know why the chicken crossed the road.....

    It was to show the Armadillo and the Racoon that it could be done.

  • DoradoDorado Posts: 400 Deckhand
    ...And I might just add: It's how it was done in the Keys (Monroe County) The notion mandated to get EVERY Homeowner on board down there with sewer was attached to their real estate taxes, crafted in such a way that folks could afford it in the long run. The damage to the coral reef ("bleaching") was extensive....

    ...however, the only way to "start" a fix.... is to begin.

    I now know why the chicken crossed the road.....

    It was to show the Armadillo and the Racoon that it could be done.

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Dorado wrote: »
    ...And I might just add: It's how it was done in the Keys (Monroe County) The notion mandated to get EVERY Homeowner on board down there with sewer was attached to their real estate taxes, crafted in such a way that folks could afford it in the long run. The damage to the coral reef ("bleaching") was extensive....

    ...however, the only way to "start" a fix.... is to begin.

    We agree...

    Even with the great wall of China....Somebody had to throw down the first brick..... It will get great in time.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Net 30Net 30 Posts: 1,033 Officer
    I have a home in Massachusetts and every real estate closing requires what they call a "Title 5 Inspection" of the septic system. If the system fails, the homeowner is required to fix the problem and bring the system up to code before the sale can close. This insures that all septic conforms to the latest standards or replacement of the old system with a new system.

    This would be a great first step for Florida but it could take decades before it makes a difference as homes are sold and septic systems upgraded or replaced.

    Big question is if it makes sense to stick around long enough and wait for the the needed changes to take place and improve water quality.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Net 30 wrote: »
    I
    Big question is if it makes sense to stick around long enough and wait for the the needed changes to take place and improve water quality.

    I'll let you know as soon as I get my new place George..... :wink:rotflmao
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • DoradoDorado Posts: 400 Deckhand
    There was a bill that went through the Florida Senate and House that mandated all septic systems be inspected every five years, and replaced as necessary. I believe it was to take effect in 2015, but was not....

    People screamed.

    Yet, the overall cost wasn't any more than the usual homeowner on city sewer was paying which is twice the usual water bill....in most municipalities the monthly cost to treat sewage is twice the water bill.

    After the fish kill in late March, I started doing some internet research on the subject... I stumbled upon a fish kill in 1982 in the Lower St John's river. It was an article in Florida Today. It was attributed to a single farmer in Southern Central Florida, who simply "closed a gate" on his property to divert some of the river to water his land.... and in doing so, stranded part of the river during drought killing the fish.... I found it interesting, a bill was quickly passed to wrestle control of that gate away from him to whomever....

    Then I stumbled upon something quite beyond my comprehension.... the amount of gates, dikes, levees that the US Army Corps of Engineers controls is staggering....simply staggering. There's websites where you can actually monitor them! When they're open/closed, and even flow rates, and graphs...

    I now know why the chicken crossed the road.....

    It was to show the Armadillo and the Racoon that it could be done.

  • palmbeachpetepalmbeachpete Posts: 2,620 Captain
    I like to thank duckmanJR. He tries to go to all Lagoon workshops and meeting and is not shy when it comes to telling our elected parties what he thinks and what he see every day on the water. I like to see how Indian River County is going to work with AquaFiber. I will keep a eye on this.
    Dorado wrote: »
    Sorry Duck... methinks I fixed it for you!:wink Wishful thinking, I know. Methinks it might have been your suggestion earlier in this thread. Thank you and Palm Beach Pete for getting out there, and bringing it all succinctly back to us! I for one, appreciate it!
  • flstanflstan Posts: 21 Greenhorn
    Sounds like we need some zebra mussels, may be our only hope...

    "Zebra mussels are filter feeders having both inhalant and exhalant siphons. They are capable of filtering about one liter of water per day while feeding primarily on algae."
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,962 Captain
    flstan wrote: »
    Sounds like we need some zebra mussels, may be our only hope...

    "Zebra mussels are filter feeders having both inhalant and exhalant siphons. They are capable of filtering about one liter of water per day while feeding primarily on algae."
    They're freshwater mussels aren't they? Aren't they highly invasive? I know they choked out 2 small bass lakes I fished as a kid.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Reel Teal wrote: »
    They're freshwater mussels aren't they? Aren't they highly invasive? I know they choked out 2 small bass lakes I fished as a kid.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

    Yes...Invasives but they may have saved the Great lakes....
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Phil YoungPhil Young Posts: 1 Greenhorn
    I live next to Lake Michigan and fish the tributaries for salmon and steelhead, so I know something about invasive species "saving" the Great Lakes. Regarding zebra mussels, be careful what you ask for. They are very efficient filter feeders, so efficient that you will be surprised how clean the water can get. Unfortunately, they eat everything at the bottom of the food chain and when the bottom of that pyramid collapses so does the rest of the food chain. If you need more fish, how about some aisian carp ...
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