You know, the economy.

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Replies

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    *** wrote: »
    The role of the political economist has changed very little through time.

    Not gonna argue against that.

    What I will say is that the role of human labor in the productivity and supply/demand relationship to real land value, wages and food is changing.
  • The MelManThe MelMan Posts: 3,854 Captain
    rickc wrote: »
    Not at all.

    My question to you is What are we going to do with all these people if we don't put them to work?

    We have seen what these low paying service sector jobs have done to our economy

    How about we bring back the manufacturing jobs we ran out of the country. Then we would have decent wages again instead of these BS service jobs............all your green friends cost your buddies decent jobs and the greedy political leaders always grubbing for extra tax money have chased multiple corporations out of the country .............now look at what's left. Scraps...
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  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    The MelMan wrote: »
    How about we bring back the manufacturing jobs we ran out of the country. Then would have decent wages again instead these BS service jobs............

    high paying manufacturing jobs are a myth. the numbers at the high end of the margin wont change the tide.
  • JAPJAP Posts: 3,373 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    Not gonna argue against that.

    What I will say is that the role of human labor in the productivity and supply/demand relationship to real land value, wages and food is changing.

    That's because the value of labor, like the value of all things, is subjective. As such, there is inherent volatility in its price relative to itself and other assets. As long as the perceived volatility in the pricing of labor is greater than the actual volatility, you have the basis for political unrest. That's why young/naive people (or those with political agendas) are such fertile minds for today's economic geocentricity...they are terrified of having their labor properly priced. It is an elaborate intellectual hoax that is murdered by capital every time it sticks its nose outside of the controlled environment of academia and government. Capital, and it's corresponding "-ism", shall never be forgiven for that.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    *** wrote: »
    they are terrified of having their labor properly priced.

    we should all be terrified of this.

    Larry Summers stumbled across this nut and has been releasing some work on it.
    https://owenzidar.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-future-of-inequality-according-to-larry-summers/
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    greggl wrote: »
    we should all be terrified of this.

    Larry Summers stumbled across this nut and has been releasing some work on it.
    https://owenzidar.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-future-of-inequality-according-to-larry-summers/


    Well somebody better think of a way to deal with all these displaced workers or the French Revolution will look like a sunday school picnic.

    When Americans get uncomfortable enough all hell will break loose.
  • JAPJAP Posts: 3,373 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    we should all be terrified of this.

    No. People who have an inflated sense of what their skills are worth should be terrified. By definition, the people who have the fewest data points to approximate the value of their labor are those not yet in the labor force, i.e. undergraduates and the like. It's no coincidence that these comprise the bulk of today's neo-geocentrists, which is to say the bulk of Sanders supporters. This is much less complicated than you think.:)
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    *** wrote: »
    No. People who have an inflated sense of what their skills are worth should be terrified. By definition, the people who have the fewest data points to approximate the value of their labor are those not yet in the labor force, i.e. undergraduates and the like. It's no coincidence that these comprise the bulk of today's neo-geocentrists, which is to say the bulk of Sanders supporters. This is much less complicated than you think.:)

    the data is pointing to a MUCH later entry and at lower wages and less permanence. the trend is away from stable employment and 'employment' in general.

    its more complicated than YOU think.
  • JAPJAP Posts: 3,373 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    the data is pointing to a MUCH later entry and at lower wages and less permanence. the trend is away from stable employment and 'employment' in general.

    What is the impetus for the movement away from employment? The growing delta between the perceived value of the labor between the seller and the buyer. Capital only constrains the latter, so it makes the former a "victim".
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    automation - globalization and the reduction of labor costs.
  • JAPJAP Posts: 3,373 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    automation - globalization and the reduction of labor costs.

    Capital wins again. It's smarter and more nimble than labor---it's relatively unencumbered by the stupidity of political economics. It's why a guy like Robert Reich has no value in actual commerce.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    *** wrote: »
    Capital wins again. It's smarter and more nimble than labor---it's relatively unencumbered by the stupidity of political economics.

    need consumers too. capital isn't superior
  • JAPJAP Posts: 3,373 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    need consumers too. capital isn't superior

    Capital creates the consumer. The invisible hand.:grin
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    or capital is the fruit of labor... ;)
  • JAPJAP Posts: 3,373 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    or capital is the fruit of labor... ;)

    Perhaps if you're selling corn in 19th century Britain or insisting all heavenly bodies spin around the earth.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    *** wrote: »
    Perhaps if you're selling corn in 19th century Britain.

    You Adam Smith guys and your corn :)
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    I bet the Chinese national government consumes an even greater percentage of that country's GDP.

    Yet, the Chinese middle class is now the world's largest and (until recently?) fastest growing and they did not reach that position by opening up their markets to imported American goods.

    How can this be?

    Are you comparing the so called Chinese middle class to the American middle class???
    Look, I know the American middle class is under assault from the socialist(you can not have a middle-class under socialism) but to compare us to the Celestials is really stretching it!
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  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    those middle class manufacturing jobs pay less than middle class wages now...

    no or toothless unions.
    http://www.nelp.org/publication/manufacturing-low-pay-declining-wages-in-the-jobs-that-built-americas-middle-class/

    Yeah, your right gregg, those guys building those Cat bulldozers and GE jet turbines are making $7.50 an hour.
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  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Yeah, your right gregg, those guys building those Cat bulldozers and GE jet turbines are making $7.50 an hour.

    They are making more than that. There are still some unions. The 'new' positions in the mfg chain are entering at below the $15 mark. Tons of those are through sub-contractor employment schemes.

    "Long gone are the days when cheap labor was the most important input for manufacturers. Total manufacturing employment in China peaked during the 1990s and has been falling ever since. And as manufacturing continues to reduce the number of workers needed, the important ingredients to success in the sector are whether advanced technologies and materials are available, and whether or not intellectual property protections are strong. The United States beats out China on both of these scores.

    This is not to say that anxiety over the decline of manufacturing employment is misguided. While it’s good that manufacturing firms think that the United States is a great place to do business, their success in America will not have the same impact, in terms of providing a huge number of well-paying jobs, as they did a half-century ago."


    http://fortune.com/2016/03/31/united-states-manufacturing-china/
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Oh - BTW. This thread just hit 1300 views.

    There is around $0.13 of ad revenue from this one topic at current market rates that could and (perhaps should) feed back to 'us'.

    This isnt fourm specific. The entire participatory internet has these pennies up for grabs.
  • LuckyMrSwLuckyMrSw Posts: 3,208 Captain
    You can get with Jesuit friend on where to mail that check to :grin
    Please stop derailing my thread.
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  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    LuckyMrSw wrote: »
    You can get with Jesuit friend on where to mail that check to :grin

    yep. he gets it.
  • LuckyMrSwLuckyMrSw Posts: 3,208 Captain
    Let us know when the checks start rolling in :rotflmao
    Please stop derailing my thread.
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    Don't call each other names
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  • sjm1582002sjm1582002 Posts: 4,326 Captain
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Are you comparing the so called Chinese middle class to the American middle class???
    Look, I know the American middle class is under assault from the socialist(you can not have a middle-class under socialism) but to compare us to the Celestials is really stretching it!

    I'm pretty sure rather prosperous middle classes exist in Norway, Sweden, and Dennmark, all of whom have been decidedly more "socialistic" than the USA, for a very long time.

    As for China, it suffered from massive famines, where millions starved to death, as recently as the early 1960's.

    Now, China has surpassed the USA and claims the largest market for automobile sales.

    By far.

    A quite impressive accomplishment for a "communist" government.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    A quite impressive accomplishment for a "communist" government.

    Which is going through an anti-corruption sweep of it's billionaires, right now.
  • sjm1582002sjm1582002 Posts: 4,326 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    Which is going through an anti-corruption sweep of it's billionaires, right now.

    The "quest for scapegoats" is a nearly universal occurrence during economic downturns. (Which is one of the reasons why outfits like Goldman Sachs pay a "mere pittance" in protection money to easily purchased marionettes like Obama/Romney and Hillary/sCruz.)

    China goes a bit further. But while hanging, shooting, and imprisoning individuals deemed "corrupt" might make for a "good show", it does nothing to turn the economy around.

    Nor, I suspect, does it dissuade others from similar behavior in the future.

    The key, and no one has found it yet, is to prevent asset values from becoming way too over valued and then wrecking nearly everyone's balence sheet, and perhaps the nation's entire financial system, when those asset values come plummeting back to earth.

    Some countries are better at picking up the pieces (UK, USA, Japan). While others have fallen prey to hyperinflation (Germany Argentina), and a few have consumed their wealthy (Imperial Russia and Kuomintang China).
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    Nor, I suspect, does it dissuade others from similar behavior in the future.

    Stopping the current scams is still the priority - wherever you are.
  • sjm1582002sjm1582002 Posts: 4,326 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    Stopping the current scams is still the priority - wherever you are.

    Keep an eye out for the next one(s).

    You can be sure it's already past its infancy.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    Keep an eye out for the next one(s).

    You can be sure it's already past its infancy.

    We don't have the fortitude to take down our own Tigers.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure rather prosperous middle classes exist in Norway, Sweden, and Dennmark, all of whom have been decidedly more "socialistic" than the USA, for a very long time.

    As for China, it suffered from massive famines, where millions starved to death, as recently as the early 1960's.

    Now, China has surpassed the USA and claims the largest market for automobile sales.

    By far.

    A quite impressive accomplishment for a "communist" government.

    Well hells bells!!! Lets just scrap that worthless Constitution, abolish the states and just go full blown communism!! Central planning, Authoritarian rule. Then we will have utopia!
    Imagine the prosperity we will have. And no more problems.

    You clowns complain about our system of free market capitalism yet none of you can come up with a better system except communism?
    The reason this country is having the problems it has is simply because we have drifted away from the free market and the Constitution.
    This is what you get with a large out of control central government, and it is only going to get worse.

    By the way SMJ, tell us what caused that famine in China? Or did they teach you that in the government school?
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