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What a Shame

Dead fish continue to foul up lagoon

"Scientists say excess nitrogen and phosphorus from fertilizers, septic tanks, leaky sewer systems, air pollution and other sources is fueling the blooms. While nitrogen and phosphorus are vital components for all life, when too much gets into the lagoon the two nutrients can trigger algae blooms that block sunlight to seagrass. Bacteria spike when the algae die and consume oxygen dissolved in the water, suffocating fish and other marine life."

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/environment/2016/03/21/dead-fish-continue-foul-up-lagoon/82078552/
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Replies

  • StandOutI2StandOutI2 Posts: 544 Officer
    This has been going on for a while now. It really is sad to see what was once an incredible fishery slowly die down. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great fishery, but it won't be for long if changes aren't made.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]:fishing
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,479 AG
    Luv2Yak wrote: »
    Dead fish continue to foul up lagoon

    "Scientists say excess nitrogen and phosphorus from fertilizers, septic tanks, leaky sewer systems, air pollution and other sources is fueling the blooms. While nitrogen and phosphorus are vital components for all life, when too much gets into the lagoon the two nutrients can trigger algae blooms that block sunlight to seagrass. Bacteria spike when the algae die and consume oxygen dissolved in the water, suffocating fish and other marine life."

    http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/environment/2016/03/21/dead-fish-continue-foul-up-lagoon/82078552/

    Not sure where all the P is coming from? If you are familiar with the lagoon there really aren't a lot of houses on there. Not a lot left of the orange groves in the IR near Scottsmoor, so where is it coming from? Edgewater? I find that hard to understand. New Smyrna and Port Orange? :huh

    Edit............not the Mosquito Lagoon I see..........that crap is probably the result of the discharge from Lake O into the St Lucie River. A big ole hole needs to be smashed in the south end of the dike, by hook or crook, or hurricane.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BuckeyeBuckeye Posts: 4,984 Captain
    navigator2 wrote: »
    Not sure where all the P is coming from? If you are familiar with the lagoon there really aren't a lot of houses on there. Not a lot left of the orange groves in the IR near Scottsmoor, so where is it coming from? Edgewater? I find that hard to understand. New Smyrna and Port Orange? :huh

    Edit............not the Mosquito Lagoon I see..........that crap is probably the result of the discharge from Lake O into the St Lucie River. A big ole hole needs to be smashed in the south end of the dike, by hook or crook, or hurricane.

    We almost purchased a house on Merritt Island last fall. There are plenty of houses on the Lagoon up there. Far more then are on the southern sections of the lagoon. This "brown tide" is likely the result of local run off and septic tanks. Unfortunately just like the southern sections there are no easy solutions.

    Thankfully for us a better position came up in a different part of the state, I would have been highly ticked off had we bought there.
    harbaugh_slow.gif

    I have never eaten a booger in my entire life. -Jim Harbaugh
  • majorgatormajorgator Posts: 369 Deckhand
    Luv2Yak wrote: »
    Dead fish continue to foul up lagoon

    "Scientists say excess nitrogen and phosphorus from fertilizers, septic tanks, leaky sewer systems, air pollution and other sources is fueling the blooms. While nitrogen and phosphorus are vital components for all life, when too much gets into the lagoon the two nutrients can trigger algae blooms that block sunlight to seagrass. Bacteria spike when the algae die and consume oxygen dissolved in the water, suffocating fish and other marine life."

    http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/environment/2016/03/21/dead-fish-continue-foul-up-lagoon/82078552/
    Why did you post this here? Last time I checked, this is not in the Big Bend. Regardless, pretty much everyone on here probably is aware of what's going on down there and can read an article without having it re-posted. Typically, forums like this are for discussion, not for random copy/paste posting of links and information.

    So, in the spirit of discussion...this is nothing new. But because of development and over-population along this particular coastal region, combine with natural currents, all the dead fish get washed up into the easily seen public view. If these "thousands of dead corpses" were spread out over the entire lagoon, no one would notice. And for an alternate view, I wonder how this compares to the dead fish numbers caused by the late freezes a few years ago?

    Move along, nothing to see here...
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,479 AG
    Buckeye wrote: »
    We almost purchased a house on Merritt Island last fall. There are plenty of houses on the Lagoon up there. Far more then are on the southern sections of the lagoon. This "brown tide" is likely the result of local run off and septic tanks. Unfortunately just like the southern sections there are no easy solutions.

    Thankfully for us a better position came up in a different part of the state, I would have been highly ticked off had we bought there.

    Merritt Island is not on "the lagoon". The base borders the southern portion of the Mosquito Lagoon, no houses there either. There are NO houses in the entire refuge area and nothing much until you get to tiny Edgewater. North of that, still fairly undeveloped until New Smyrna. I'm guessing you consider the IR and Banana Rivers lagoon? They are not even connected to the lagoon expect at tiny Haulover Canal.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BuckeyeBuckeye Posts: 4,984 Captain
    navigator2 wrote: »
    Merritt Island is not on "the lagoon". The base borders the southern portion of the Mosquito Lagoon, no houses there either. There are NO houses in the entire refuge area and nothing much until you get to tiny Edgewater. North of that, still fairly undeveloped until New Smyrna. I'm guessing you consider the IR and Banana Rivers lagoon? They are not even connected to the lagoon expect at tiny Haulover Canal.

    No Houses Anywhere:

    12890996_1001315953283431_4488710738199714139_o.jpg
    harbaugh_slow.gif

    I have never eaten a booger in my entire life. -Jim Harbaugh
  • BuckeyeBuckeye Posts: 4,984 Captain
    navigator2 wrote: »
    Merritt Island is not on "the lagoon". The base borders the southern portion of the Mosquito Lagoon, no houses there either. There are NO houses in the entire refuge area and nothing much until you get to tiny Edgewater. North of that, still fairly undeveloped until New Smyrna. I'm guessing you consider the IR and Banana Rivers lagoon? They are not even connected to the lagoon expect at tiny Haulover Canal.

    First two paragraphs in the article.

    Thousands of scaly, rancid corpses dot the banks of the Indian River Lagoon, in clusters from Titusville to Melbourne, likely casualties of widespread algae that's bloomed for months.

    On Monday, dead fish drifted near neighborhoods in south Cocoa Beach and Patrick Air Force Base. The death toll spans the spectrum from pint-sized junk fish to plump, prize-sized sport fish. Some residents have reported redfish 25 pounds or larger floating up dead.
    harbaugh_slow.gif

    I have never eaten a booger in my entire life. -Jim Harbaugh
  • capt louiecapt louie citrus countyPosts: 10,163 Moderator
    Whether in the big bend or over there, it's still in Florida and no one likes what is happening. Our state estuaries need to be a priority no matter what region they are in.
    "You'll get your weather"
  • Riptide31Riptide31 Posts: 478 Deckhand
    It is overcrowded. Too many people, too many septic tanks and too much fertilizer runoff. Needs another inlet as well to dilute the toxins
  • majorgatormajorgator Posts: 369 Deckhand
    capt louie wrote: »
    Whether in the big bend or over there, it's still in Florida and no one likes what is happening. Our state estuaries need to be a priority no matter what region they are in.
    I agree with the point your making 100%.
    But if I wanted to participate in a discussion about this, I would join in with any one of the eternal threads regarding this topic over in the other sections. There's just something about a thread that is initiated with a copy/paste and no input from the OP that never ends well. Its like watching a political debate where all they do is hit the same ole talking points and offer no substance :wink
  • Luv2YakLuv2Yak Posts: 944 Officer
    Fish kill leaves stench near Indian River Lagoon

    "Florida Today (on.flatoday.com/1o3NT4N) reports up to 15 species of fish are dead or dying in the rivers. They began dying last week."

    http://www.gainesville.com/article/20160322/WIRE/160329936/-1/news300?Title=Fish-kill-leaves-stench-near-Indian-River-Lagoon
  • Luv2YakLuv2Yak Posts: 944 Officer
    majorgator wrote: »
    ...Move along, nothing to see here...
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,479 AG
    Buckeye wrote: »
    First two paragraphs in the article.

    Thousands of scaly, rancid corpses dot the banks of the Indian River Lagoon, in clusters from Titusville to Melbourne, likely casualties of widespread algae that's bloomed for months.

    On Monday, dead fish drifted near neighborhoods in south Cocoa Beach and Patrick Air Force Base. The death toll spans the spectrum from pint-sized junk fish to plump, prize-sized sport fish. Some residents have reported redfish 25 pounds or larger floating up dead.

    Did not read the article, read what was posted. Everyone knows the IR is screwed, has been going on for years. However, most of the fishermen fish the MOSQUITO Lagoon. It's still in very good shape and only a handful of waterfront houses for a span of 25 miles. Maybe they should go ahead and put a lock at Haulover to keep the filth out of the LAGOON. :grin The Indian River is just that, a river and not really a lagoon. You are new to Florida aren't you? :rotflmao
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • majorgatormajorgator Posts: 369 Deckhand
    Luv2Yak wrote: »
    Fish kill leaves stench near Indian River Lagoon

    "Florida Today (on.flatoday.com/1o3NT4N) reports up to 15 species of fish are dead or dying in the rivers. They began dying last week."

    http://www.gainesville.com/article/20160322/WIRE/160329936/-1/news300?Title=Fish-kill-leaves-stench-near-Indian-River-Lagoon
    Hooray, another copy/paste posting of the same story. Thanks for your ever-useful contribution. Now that you've made your point, you can continue your search for more drunk redneck duck hunters in Dixie County or that perfect aluminum tunnel boat you so often lust over.
  • HammerheadTedHammerheadTed Posts: 1,256 Officer
    I think this is appropriate info, especially if it makes us think about protecting our own fishery. Polution of the waters is an ongoing problem everywhere. CR is still a beautiful place and I love living here, but the water does not compare to what it was in the early 1980s when I started coming here. The whole River was clear "blue water". What a change and it is a shame. There are a lot of issues over there, but some are not difficult to understand or fix. Why is yard fertilizer not banned in the state, or even the country for that matter, as nitrogen polution is a problem everywhere. Agriculture is the main culprit here, but at least they have a reason for using it. I will be supporting any measures that make sense for protecting our water.
  • BuckeyeBuckeye Posts: 4,984 Captain
    navigator2 wrote: »
    You are new to Florida aren't you? :rotflmao

    A few years old, but at least they taught us how to conversate where I come from. :wink
    navigator2 wrote: »
    The Indian River is just that, a river and not really a lagoon.

    Where are the head waters of the Indian River?
    harbaugh_slow.gif

    I have never eaten a booger in my entire life. -Jim Harbaugh
  • BuckeyeBuckeye Posts: 4,984 Captain
    Why is yard fertilizer not banned in the state, or even the country for that matter, as nitrogen polution is a problem everywhere. Agriculture is the main culprit here, but at least they have a reason for using it. I will be supporting any measures that make sense for protecting our water.

    What I don't understand is why there is no sewer and water treatment systems in Florida. Is it because of the water table? Can't dig 10 feet deep to bury a pipe? Around here there is very limited areas for water collection, so most runs off in to the river.
    harbaugh_slow.gif

    I have never eaten a booger in my entire life. -Jim Harbaugh
  • Luv2YakLuv2Yak Posts: 944 Officer
    navigator2 wrote: »
    Did not read the article, read what was posted. Everyone knows the IR is screwed, has been going on for years. However, most of the fishermen fish the MOSQUITO Lagoon. It's still in very good shape...

    Florida coastal environments are collapsing

    "Bob Chew, an area resident from Rhode Island, said he is preparing a talk for Rhode Island Saltwater Anglers Association, explaining the previously fabulous Mosquito Lagoon is ruined.

    "I will have to tell them to find another place to fish," Chew said."

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/environment/os-florida-water-catastrophe-statewide-20160304-story.html

    Brown algae threatens fishing, may be killing wildlife in lagoons (from June 2013)

    OAK HILL – On a good day, Dave Brown used to skim his boat over the water in Mosquito Lagoon watching sunlight play over the sand and sea grass beds below and easily catch the limit of redfish and trout during his guided trips.

    Lately, Brown and his fishing clients don't see many good days. Instead, his boat motors through water the color of split-pea soup, clouded by a harmful brown algae bloom. In some areas, he's lucky to see the bottom.

    http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20130615/NEWS/306159997?p=1&tc=pg
  • StandOutI2StandOutI2 Posts: 544 Officer
    navigator2 wrote: »
    Did not read the article, read what was posted. Everyone knows the IR is screwed, has been going on for years. However, most of the fishermen fish the MOSQUITO Lagoon. It's still in very good shape and only a handful of waterfront houses for a span of 25 miles. Maybe they should go ahead and put a lock at Haulover to keep the filth out of the LAGOON. :grin The Indian River is just that, a river and not really a lagoon. You are new to Florida aren't you? :rotflmao

    Define very good shape. As compared to the last 5 years, you would be incredibly incorrect. The water clarity has been the worst I've seen it in quite a long time. A lot of the resident breeder reds have left the area, there's not half of what there used to be over there. Are they still catching some? Sure. But certainly not in the numbers that they were. The lagoon is also going through the same issue. Terrible water clarity is choking off the grass from getting enough sunlight and its dying off. If you don't believe me, go ride over to the north side of the clinkers and look back towards the west wall. Most of that was grass last March, and very healthy grass then, but in November it had very much died off. That's not the only place, but definitely the most noticeable one.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]:fishing
  • Luv2YakLuv2Yak Posts: 944 Officer
    State action looms as team works to rescue Mosquito Lagoon

    Mosquito Lagoon is part of the larger Indian River Lagoon, which stretches 156 miles along Florida's east coast, from Palm Beach County to Ponce Inlet. The system garnered widespread concern after a series of algal blooms led to the loss of more than 40,000 acres of sea grasses. The blooms also are thought to have contributed to the deaths of hundreds of dolphins, manatees and pelicans.

    Scientists attributed the blooms to a series of natural events and declining water quality. High levels of mercury and other pollutants in the lagoon have prompted health warnings for those who eat fish harvested there and have prompted concerns about the health of dolphins and other animals in the overall lagoon system.

    http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20151220/news/151229970
  • majorgatormajorgator Posts: 369 Deckhand
    Enough with the copy/pasting action. That's about the lowest form of trolling that exists.
  • VertigoVertigo Yankeetown, FLPosts: 617 Officer
    Water quality has been going to crap in Florida for a long, long time, and the one reason for this trend is people....too many of them. Worse still, the majority of them like green lawns, golf courses, eating cheap groceries, driving their cars on good roads and in general producing more garbage that gets in our water. Very few care about the size and number of fish we can catch. Add in the heavy rain we got last summer and you have the situation you see today. If we don't have another abnormal summer, the Lagoon and IR will recover to some extent, but they will never, never go back to what they were 50 or 100 years ago. For that to happen we'll need a nuclear war, a plague or the apocalypse. Otherwise we're going to keep packing more and more people into the state.

    You can write all the letters you want, protest, and vote out the current politicians, but until the population pressure is reduced, not much is going to change. If you don't like it move somewhere else. At least that will reduce the population somewhat. It's ironic. People move here, become part of the problem, then complain about it.
  • Luv2YakLuv2Yak Posts: 944 Officer
    Lighten Up on the Lagoon (from Florida Sportsman September 2015)

    Prosperity, however, can be a fleeting thing and the Lagoon’s long-term status is by no means certain.

    State and federal authorities are currently studying Mosquito Lagoon, documenting seagrass beds, oyster reefs and other ecological features—and running numbers related to recreational usage. It’s entirely possible that at some point in the near future, we’ll see plans laid to close certain parts of the Lagoon, not only to skiffs and paddle craft, but to all fishing.

    That would be a shame.

    http://www.floridasportsman.com/2015/09/24/regions_ec_050276/

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    There are many coastal areas of Florida where, for a variety of reasons, the fishing "ain't as good as it used to be."

    With such declines in certain areas it is not unreasonable to think fishing activity and pressure will increase in other areas, i.e., Big Bend, suffering relatively less environmental and habitat degradation.

    That's just one reason why those who enjoy fishing in Florida should be concerned about the diminishing health of Florida's coastal areas regardless of where problems exist.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,931 AG
    Vertigo wrote: »
    Water quality has been going to crap in Florida for a long, long time, and the one reason for this trend is people....too many of them. Worse still, the majority of them like green lawns, golf courses, eating cheap groceries, driving their cars on good roads and in general producing more garbage that gets in our water. Very few care about the size and number of fish we can catch. Add in the heavy rain we got last summer and you have the situation you see today. If we don't have another abnormal summer, the Lagoon and IR will recover to some extent, but they will never, never go back to what they were 50 or 100 years ago. For that to happen we'll need a nuclear war, a plague or the apocalypse. Otherwise we're going to keep packing more and more people into the state.

    You can write all the letters you want, protest, and vote out the current politicians, but until the population pressure is reduced, not much is going to change. If you don't like it move somewhere else. At least that will reduce the population somewhat. It's ironic. People move here, become part of the problem, then complain about it.
    Last sentence is spot on!
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,479 AG
    Buckeye wrote: »
    A few years old, but at least they taught us how to conversate where I come from. :wink



    Where are the head waters of the Indian River?

    The filthy St Lucie River Inlet (fed by Lake O discharges) and an occasional lock opening at Port Canaveral and the crack at Haulover. Next question? :grin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,479 AG
    Luv2Yak wrote: »
    State action looms as team works to rescue Mosquito Lagoon

    Mosquito Lagoon is part of the larger Indian River Lagoon, which stretches 156 miles along Florida's east coast, from Palm Beach County to Ponce Inlet. The system garnered widespread concern after a series of algal blooms led to the loss of more than 40,000 acres of sea grasses. The blooms also are thought to have contributed to the deaths of hundreds of dolphins, manatees and pelicans.

    Scientists attributed the blooms to a series of natural events and declining water quality. High levels of mercury and other pollutants in the lagoon have prompted health warnings for those who eat fish harvested there and have prompted concerns about the health of dolphins and other animals in the overall lagoon system.

    http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20151220/news/151229970

    I've got news for you, the Mosquito Lagoon is fed from Port Orange, not the IR.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,479 AG
    Luv2Yak wrote: »
    Lighten Up on the Lagoon (from Florida Sportsman September 2015)

    Prosperity, however, can be a fleeting thing and the Lagoon’s long-term status is by no means certain.

    State and federal authorities are currently studying Mosquito Lagoon, documenting seagrass beds, oyster reefs and other ecological features—and running numbers related to recreational usage. It’s entirely possible that at some point in the near future, we’ll see plans laid to close certain parts of the Lagoon, not only to skiffs and paddle craft, but to all fishing.

    That would be a shame.

    http://www.floridasportsman.com/2015/09/24/regions_ec_050276/

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    There are many coastal areas of Florida where, for a variety of reasons, the fishing "ain't as good as it used to be."

    With such declines in certain areas it is not unreasonable to think fishing activity and pressure will increase in other areas, i.e., Big Bend, suffering relatively less environmental and habitat degradation.

    That's just one reason why those who enjoy fishing in Florida should be concerned about the diminishing health of Florida's coastal areas regardless of where problems exist.

    Well the good news is that the Big Bend north of Yankeetown is protected by a series of NWR's. **** good thing!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BuckeyeBuckeye Posts: 4,984 Captain
    navigator2 wrote: »
    The filthy St Lucie River Inlet (fed by Lake O discharges) and an occasional lock opening at Port Canaveral and the crack at Haulover. Next question? :grin

    So the Indian River's head waters are the St Lucie River? So at the "cross roads" the Indian River then magically flows north, south and east all at the same time? Must be the only river in the world that flows in three directions at the same time. :hail



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_River_(Florida)
    harbaugh_slow.gif

    I have never eaten a booger in my entire life. -Jim Harbaugh
  • VertigoVertigo Yankeetown, FLPosts: 617 Officer
    the Indian River Lagoon System includes the Indian River Lagoon, the Banana River Lagoon, and Mosquito Lagoon. Mosquito Lagoon is not part of the Indian River itself, but part of the whole system. As noted above, the Mosquito Lagoon is connected to the Indian River by only a small canal and has one access to the Atlantic at Ponce de Leon Inlet.

    The whole of the Indian River Lagoon System is tidal and does not flow in any particular direction although wind and fresh water releases can influence the flow at times.

    All of this information is obvious from a glance at any online map and/or a little Google search.
  • BuckeyeBuckeye Posts: 4,984 Captain
    Vertigo wrote: »
    The whole of the Indian River Lagoon System is tidal and does not flow in any particular direction although wind and fresh water releases can influence the flow at times.

    Right, Navi stated:
    navigator2 wrote: »
    The Indian River is just that, a river and not really a lagoon.

    Which isn't true. The Indian River is actually just part of the Atlantic Ocean separated by barrier islands.

    And the northern sections of the IRL is not really tidal either. For example Merritt Island's tide chart today is for a .06 meter tide change. .06 meters is 2.3 inches. I wouldn't really call that "tidal", but you may.

    http://www.myforecast.com/bin/tide_extended.m?city=13273&metric=true&tideLocationID=T7066

    Back on topic, I suspect that part of the problem is that Man does not allow nature to open and close inlets to flush the system out. The barrier islands were constantly changing, shifting positions and opening and closing inlets when needed - most certainly in "wet" years. Indeed population is to blame making the barrier islands unbelievably valuable pieces of real estate.
    harbaugh_slow.gif

    I have never eaten a booger in my entire life. -Jim Harbaugh
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