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Lagoon restoration ideas?

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Replies

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    If there is a **** in the punchbowl.....rather than dilute it with more punch....take the **** out.....
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    edited September 30 #33
    If there is a t urd in the punchbowl.....rather than dilute it with more punch....take the t urd out.....
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • The Cat's EyeThe Cat's Eye Posts: 1,481 Officer
    If this has already been said i apologize.
     Nature will repair the problem in time
     when the sea rises and the lagoon becomes
    part of the ocean and the barrier islands
    become sandbars or reefs.
    Giimoozaabi
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    Nice....more importantly...check out the end of that link... Disclaimer: I am not a scientist or an engineer. The complex topics within this Inlet Proposal deserve further research and validation for feasibility by those who are better qualified than me in these respective fields. Peer reviewed SCIENCE has already put that idea to rest.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • GettnreddyGettnreddy Posts: 85 Deckhand
    duckmanJR said:
    Nice....more importantly...check out the end of that link... Disclaimer: I am not a scientist or an engineer. The complex topics within this Inlet Proposal deserve further research and validation for feasibility by those who are better qualified than me in these respective fields. Peer reviewed SCIENCE has already put that idea to rest.
    Thank you for your support in cleaning up the lagoon. If everyone that uses this resource would support such a thing. Who knows maybe science would get involved and maybe, just maybe it would happen. 
    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.
    Maybe it could happen in my lifetime, maybe not. Either way, I support it. 
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,778 Captain

    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.

    Then you would know the river was full of clams until the "great Bostonian clam rush" of the eighties.
    Forget oysters and inlets.
    Find a way to get the river full of clams again and they will help keep it clean.

  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,270 AG

    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.

    Then you would know the river was full of clams until the "great Bostonian clam rush" of the eighties.
    Forget oysters and inlets.
    Find a way to get the river full of clams again and they will help keep it clean.

    zebra mussels  But that's just creating another problem down the road.  
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    duckmanJR said:
    Nice....more importantly...check out the end of that link... Disclaimer: I am not a scientist or an engineer. The complex topics within this Inlet Proposal deserve further research and validation for feasibility by those who are better qualified than me in these respective fields. Peer reviewed SCIENCE has already put that idea to rest.
    Thank you for your support in cleaning up the lagoon. If everyone that uses this resource would support such a thing. Who knows maybe science would get involved and maybe, just maybe it would happen. 
    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.
    Maybe it could happen in my lifetime, maybe not. Either way, I support it. 
    The peer reviewed science has already been done....and that is why they are not doing some hair brained "cut more inlets" nonsense. Just answer this very simple question....if more ocean water would grow seagrass....why is there none behind Sebastian inlet...which gets continuous flushing....
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG

    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.

    Then you would know the river was full of clams until the "great Bostonian clam rush" of the eighties.
    Forget oysters and inlets.
    Find a way to get the river full of clams again and they will help keep it clean.

    Well, in fairness to Bostonians ( I do not know any )...... It was mostly South shore of Long Island baymen that came here and raked them all up.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,778 Captain
    duckmanJR said:

    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.

    Then you would know the river was full of clams until the "great Bostonian clam rush" of the eighties.
    Forget oysters and inlets.
    Find a way to get the river full of clams again and they will help keep it clean.

    Well, in fairness to Bostonians ( I do not know any )...... It was mostly South shore of Long Island baymen that came here and raked them all up.

    Plenty of them too I'm sure.
    I also know which crowd I  was tipping long necks and shooting pool with.
    Maybe you didn't meet as many of them from inside the cruiser.
    They were a little more civilized than the new yawkers........but not a whole lot. :)
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,270 AG
    is it no longer possible to cultivate clams or filter feeders in the lagoons  now?  
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • GettnreddyGettnreddy Posts: 85 Deckhand

    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.

    Then you would know the river was full of clams until the "great Bostonian clam rush" of the eighties.
    Forget oysters and inlets.
    Find a way to get the river full of clams again and they will help keep it clean.

    Yes I remember driving across 520, 528 and NASA causeway and seeing the river littered with commercial clammers.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    duckmanJR said:

    I grew up here much like a lot of others, and this subject has been a discussion for at least 30 years that I know of.

    Then you would know the river was full of clams until the "great Bostonian clam rush" of the eighties.
    Forget oysters and inlets.
    Find a way to get the river full of clams again and they will help keep it clean.

    Well, in fairness to Bostonians ( I do not know any )...... It was mostly South shore of Long Island baymen that came here and raked them all up.

    Plenty of them too I'm sure.
    I also know which crowd I  was tipping long necks and shooting pool with.
    Maybe you didn't meet as many of them from inside the cruiser.
    They were a little more civilized than the new yawkers........but not a whole lot. :)
    Actually, one of my off duty gigs was " clam monitor " ..... They were relaying clams from what was considered "polluted" water....to areas of clean water...where they had to stay for a set time to purge.... It was killer money....and I just sat there and read books.... they were all New York south shore clam diggers. PS...still good friends with one....you want to buy 7 or 8 rakes ....LOL
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    is it no longer possible to cultivate clams or filter feeders in the lagoons  now?  
    There have been attempts at oysters down my way....but in speaking with a scientist that was involved in the project....they would get to 3 inches...and then die....they were unsure why....but I gave than my own non scientific thoughts..." Maybe....that's how long it takes for them to get a lethal dose of this $h!t water ? " ... They are trying to do something with clams...saw something about it on Addictive fishing...
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Goof TroopGoof Troop Posts: 10 Deckhand
    I was one of the South Shore Clam diggers that arrived here in 92.
    Clamming towards the end of the boom was getting tougher but the nail in the coffin was a storm that dumped a tremendous amount of  Rain.
    After the standard 10 day closure everything seemed fine for about a week,  then all of a sudden rake fulls of dying clams started coming up, after another week or so it was over.
  • Sixth GenerationSixth Generation Posts: 492 Deckhand
    I remember digging clams next to turtle mound when I was a kid.  We would also pick up a 5 gallon bucket of Periwinkles off the beach and after they purged we would boil them and strain the liquid to make Periwinkle soup...  
  • saltybumsaltybum Posts: 1,611 Captain
    Uncontrolled growth is killing Florida. All these really fancy neighborhoods with perfect lawns soaked with herbicides, pesticides, fertilizers and so on washing off into the near by waters after every rain then being redone over again to keep them pretty while the county keeps on handing out building permits like halloween candy for the ever increasing coveted tax revenue that goes more into their pockets than protecting the environment.
    Jerimiah 10:23
  • whole lot of lovewhole lot of love Posts: 50 Deckhand
    some of the best fishing in florida happened in e cen fl.     lets hope it can happen again
  • MissedMissed O-townPosts: 250 Deckhand
    Had some weeds on my lure last time was out.  That's a plus. 

    We need weeds and fter feeders.

    Those 3 hurricanes that hit Louisiana would have helped too. 
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    some of the best fishing in florida happened in e cen fl.     lets hope it can happen again
    Nope...will not happen. Unless there is a complete change in mindset of what we will be willing to pay to make that happen. It will take so much money to do the "fixes"...I just don't see it happening. The IRL has been in steep decline foe a decade now...and still the political Nero's fiddle while Rome is all but burnt asunder.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • triplehelixtriplehelix Posts: 164 Deckhand
    I am going to chime in. I have dedicated my short life so far to lagoon restoration. I have worked for FWC, SJRWMD, and now Brevard County Natural Resources as an environmental specialist for the Save Our Indian RIver Lagoon Program.

    I am in charge of the Septic Upgrade program and work with our Septic to Sewer Conversion. Don't you dare think for one second that we at Brevard County are not busting our **** each day to make big infrastructure changes surrounding the lagoon. We are using the 2016 Sales Tax as effectively as we can to reduce nutrient inputs--and we know we are limited on time since we only have the tax for 10 years. Obviously not enough money or time, but it's something.

    Septic systems are really gross, especially in areas with sandy soil and/or a short distance to the groundwater below. Gary Collechio should know--they have done a lot of work on the west/southwest coast of Florida where he is from and they have seen incredible improvements in seagrass coverage and water quality. We are repairing leaky sewer laterals, some of WHICH WERE MADE OF CLAY (terra cotta/vitrified clay) ON THE BEACHSIDE!! We are also converting entire septic neighborhoods to sewer.

    Look at neighborhoods surrounding lakes in the midwest and northeast. Their 

    As a fisherman who has grown up on this forum for 20 years, you know I share the same concerns about water quality. I have sacrificed time to help when I could be making much more money as a contract manager for another company. So I don't appreciate anyone saying we're not doing all we can--because we are.

    If you don't like the lagoon the way it is, then get off your damnn keyboard and go take action. If you're not doing something, you're part of the problem. Any little thing helps. Be the change you wish to see in the world.

  • GettnreddyGettnreddy Posts: 85 Deckhand
    I am going to chime in. I have dedicated my short life so far to lagoon restoration. I have worked for FWC, SJRWMD, and now Brevard County Natural Resources as an environmental specialist for the Save Our Indian RIver Lagoon Program.

    I am in charge of the Septic Upgrade program and work with our Septic to Sewer Conversion. Don't you dare think for one second that we at Brevard County are not busting our **** each day to make big infrastructure changes surrounding the lagoon. We are using the 2016 Sales Tax as effectively as we can to reduce nutrient inputs--and we know we are limited on time since we only have the tax for 10 years. Obviously not enough money or time, but it's something.

    Septic systems are really gross, especially in areas with sandy soil and/or a short distance to the groundwater below. Gary Collechio should know--they have done a lot of work on the west/southwest coast of Florida where he is from and they have seen incredible improvements in seagrass coverage and water quality. We are repairing leaky sewer laterals, some of WHICH WERE MADE OF CLAY (terra cotta/vitrified clay) ON THE BEACHSIDE!! We are also converting entire septic neighborhoods to sewer.

    Look at neighborhoods surrounding lakes in the midwest and northeast. Their 

    As a fisherman who has grown up on this forum for 20 years, you know I share the same concerns about water quality. I have sacrificed time to help when I could be making much more money as a contract manager for another company. So I don't appreciate anyone saying we're not doing all we can--because we are.

    If you don't like the lagoon the way it is, then get off your damnn keyboard and go take action. If you're not doing something, you're part of the problem. Any little thing helps. Be the change you wish to see in the world.

    I live on satellite beach  and I know the repaired the main on my street. I believe they installed epoxy sleeve, which concerns me as; is it a patch or band aid. How long will it last? If done properly. 
    We at our home had to replace all the cast iron sewer 2 years ago and found the eighbors sewer line ran across the front of our house to tie in. Built in the 60s. I wonder how many more are done the same way.
    How many new septic systems are being installed today on new residential homes and why?
    I know BC is trying to fix an out dated system and probably an undersized system. Huge task. I thank you. 
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,270 AG
    Good work @triplehelix Work done today that will pay dividends years from now.  

    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • bluewater_feverbluewater_fever Posts: 143 Deckhand
    I think some of the efforts are already paying off. I've seen a major improvement in my section of the lagoon, with the exception of Sebastian, the last couple of years. The Johnson's seagrass coverage has EXPLODED and for the most part the water quality, at least the areas I'm fishing, is gin clear until monsoon season. I don't have any current pictures. This one is from 12/2019 but the grass is still doing well. Up until 2018 this area where the photo was taken has been a desert since ~2008.

    While we are on the clam subject, check out the video/link below on the latest IRL clam restoration effort. They found a small clam population still living in the Southern ML. These clams appear to be toleration to garbage water quality considering they've survived the harshest conditions until now. Florida today has a nice article too. Notice ~17 seconds into the video the seagrass at the bottom of the window.






  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,928 AG
    I am going to chime in. I have dedicated my short life so far to lagoon restoration. I have worked for FWC, SJRWMD, and now Brevard County Natural Resources as an environmental specialist for the Save Our Indian RIver Lagoon Program.

    I am in charge of the Septic Upgrade program and work with our Septic to Sewer Conversion. Don't you dare think for one second that we at Brevard County are not busting our **** each day to make big infrastructure changes surrounding the lagoon. We are using the 2016 Sales Tax as effectively as we can to reduce nutrient inputs--and we know we are limited on time since we only have the tax for 10 years. Obviously not enough money or time, but it's something.

    Septic systems are really gross, especially in areas with sandy soil and/or a short distance to the groundwater below. Gary Collechio should know--they have done a lot of work on the west/southwest coast of Florida where he is from and they have seen incredible improvements in seagrass coverage and water quality. We are repairing leaky sewer laterals, some of WHICH WERE MADE OF CLAY (terra cotta/vitrified clay) ON THE BEACHSIDE!! We are also converting entire septic neighborhoods to sewer.

    Look at neighborhoods surrounding lakes in the midwest and northeast. Their 

    As a fisherman who has grown up on this forum for 20 years, you know I share the same concerns about water quality. I have sacrificed time to help when I could be making much more money as a contract manager for another company. So I don't appreciate anyone saying we're not doing all we can--because we are.

    If you don't like the lagoon the way it is, then get off your damnn keyboard and go take action. If you're not doing something, you're part of the problem. Any little thing helps. Be the change you wish to see in the world.

    To be clear Matt....I am *NOT* saying you nor the agencies you have been affiliated with are not doing anything. And of course...anything is better than doing nothing. What I am saying is that people are woefully underestimating the task at hand....and more...the tremendous cost of either installing new or replacong failing infrastructure. And as you said...Your money in Brevard will sunset. And Indian River nor St Lucie county have done what Brevard has done regarding the tax. So....since they are all connected...You have one entity doing something...and others doing..let's say...Less. As some here know, I am out on the river every day....Vero to S. Mel Beach....When the water clears after we get some serious cool down of the water temps.....I fully expect to see what we always have the past few years...A barren moonscape.....or at best...some Macro-algae that people mistakenly think is seagrass. This is my opinion....Can I be wrong...Sure, would not be the first or last time....But I do not see a change in the system anytime even remotely soon.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Net 30Net 30 Posts: 1,031 Officer
    Triplehelix:  Kudos to you for walking the walk.  

    Hopefully your efforts will pay dividends down the road.  In this age of cynacism and armchair quarterbacking, it's all too easy to point the finger and say "They" have to do something to make things better.  Good to know Brevard is taking steps to at least try and make a difference.  I live in Indian River County and most there seem more concerned about keeping their lawns and golf courses green than what's going on in the waters behind their homes.

    As long as the oceanfront beaches continue to look pretty and attract tourists, not too much concern or effort will go into attacking the lagoon issues.  Instead, millions of $ will go into beach restoration and replenishment.  Next storm.........all that $ and sand will be washed out to the first reef.  I'll bet those same dollars could be used by ORCA and Harbor Branch to come up with some possible stop gap measures to begin the fight to stop further degradation.

    Or not.

  • GettnreddyGettnreddy Posts: 85 Deckhand
    Net 30 said:
    Triplehelix:  Kudos to you for walking the walk.  

    Hopefully your efforts will pay dividends down the road.  In this age of cynacism and armchair quarterbacking, it's all too easy to point the finger and say "They" have to do something to make things better.  Good to know Brevard is taking steps to at least try and make a difference.  I live in Indian River County and most there seem more concerned about keeping their lawns and golf courses green than what's going on in the waters behind their homes.

    As long as the oceanfront beaches continue to look pretty and attract tourists, not too much concern or effort will go into attacking the lagoon issues.  Instead, millions of $ will go into beach restoration and replenishment.  Next storm.........all that $ and sand will be washed out to the first reef.  I'll bet those same dollars could be used by ORCA and Harbor Branch to come up with some possible stop gap measures to begin the fight to stop further degradation.

    Or not.

    The beach renourishment does seem like a lot of wasted money. Were they doing a lot of it in the 70s, 80s? I don't recall it being an every year thing.
  • triplehelixtriplehelix Posts: 164 Deckhand
    They were not re-"nourishing" the beaches back then, but if you look at old photos, everywhere from Daytona down to to Sebastian was about to fall into the sea. 

    We did not have the foresight to build properties farther away, and we are paying the price. Same for all of our wastewater infrastructure. 

    What a joy it would be to go back in time and redesign our area with the future growth in mind. Alas, that isn't so. And so we eat the elephant one bite at a time.
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 83 Deckhand
    Triple - I really enjoyed your post, posts actually.  I seldom post on this forum and for  the most part am unknown except for Joe (duckman) who I’ve fished with twice on his boat.
    Environmental restoration has been my life’s work, primarily as Program Director for ER at Los Alamos, focused on legacy waste cleanup.  Enough of that, I have a house in Cocoa Beach and my wife and I will be there next week.  Let me know if you want to stop by for an adult   Beverage and talk more about Lagoon cleanup- you too Joe.
    Adios
    David
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