Well, started dumping the polluted lake, here we go again!

silentfaithsilentfaith Posts: 362 Deckhand
highly polluted lake water is coming to our waterways again, don't fish here, don't swim here you may die.
Thanks to rubio and his sugar buddys there is not even hope that lake water feeds the everglades like it should.
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Replies

  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    SFWMD sent 700,000 acre feet of water from Lake Okeechobee to the southern Everglades last year and the year before meeting the 10 PPB phosphorus rule, which is an order of magnitude more than the previous years.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • davidgiddavidgid Posts: 250 Deckhand
    yeah I always hate what it does to the water around Sanibel and Ft. Myers.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,145 Admiral
    Blame the National Park Service as well...They want Pure Spring water into the Glades only.
    Never happen so they push it out the St'Lucie and Clahossahatchee. Won't be long now and here it comes...
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • trousertroutmantrousertroutman Posts: 1,363 Officer
    It has always irked me the way the private pollution sector is separate from the public...here it is rearing its ugly face again
    Make the forum great again.....consolidate general fishing with for sale or business but keep reports separate!
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    The water used in sugar farming flows south and not north into the lake. The high nutrient concentrations originate in the Kissimmee basin and arrive in the lake via the recently restored Kissimmee river.

    The majority of the water entering the estuaries on each coast is storm water generated from local watersheds.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • trousertroutmantrousertroutman Posts: 1,363 Officer
    exactly, and the fact that some people are allowed to pollute in public, while other have to do it in private to avoid penalties does not seem fair IMHO
    Make the forum great again.....consolidate general fishing with for sale or business but keep reports separate!
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,145 Admiral
    [QUOTE=Gary S. Colecchio;
    ]The water used in sugar farming flows south and not north into the lake. The high nutrient concentrations originate in the Kissimmee basin and arrive in the lake via the recently restored Kissimmee river.

    The majority of the water entering the estuaries on each coast is storm water generated from local watersheds.[/QUOTE]

    This is true.
    The waters to the North are full of Cow and Ranch runoff, that ends up in St' Lucie and Clahoocahatchee..?
    The Sugar water ends up in Biscayne Bay / Miami Canal / New River ect.
    It can't go thru Tribal Lands or ENP.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 868 Officer
    highly polluted lake water is coming to our waterways again, don't fish here, don't swim here you may die.
    Thanks to rubio and his sugar buddys there is not even hope that lake water feeds the everglades like it should.

    i rather drink a glass of water that comes from the lake than a glass of water that comes from the N W fork....

    you say ''Highly Polluted"...where does this info come from???..... there is no reason why samples can not be taken often and tested at many locations in the SFWMD area and the results put out to the public....maybe then the sky won't fall.
  • FISHHUNTRFISHHUNTR Posts: 1,285 Officer
    ^^this
    Love how everyone spins this like the pollution is only coming from the lake like its poison.... I guess there is no pollution coming from any other source nearer the coast.... guess all the water run off over there is spring clean huh? Im sure all those bright green lush lawns I see around there never need fertilizer and pesticides, nah prolly the salt air makes them look that way. Everytime I pull into a marina Im super impressed with oil sheen and garbage in the water.... GMAFB
    "FISHUNTR"- 2012 20' Pathfinder, Yamaha F150, HDS gen 3 9T
  • Flanative78Flanative78 Posts: 44 Deckhand
    I like how everyone says Send it south but they don't have a clue how it works or the stipulations for sending it south. Nor do they have any
    Idea just how much water there is. Pump away. I say this as someone who knows how the water flows and also someone who loves to fish the east and west coast. Sometimes there are times when things just have to be done. It's mandated when it gets so high , then it's time to pump. Too many people and houses south of the lake to take a chance.
  • WVsoleWVsole Posts: 58 Deckhand
    http://www.news-press.com/story/news/2016/01/28/state-declares-emergency-polluted-water-coming-fort-myers/79401690/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=

    Sounds like they are back pumping southern farm land water into the lake. This release could be worse than normal. To much rain, something has got to give somewhere I guess, not many options at this point.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,145 Admiral
    1.8 Inches is normal Jan.
    We have over 10 inches right now. Road are completely covered.
    .We're pumping it South into the 10 K Islands as fast as we can.
    There goe's my Sight fishing this weekend..:banghead
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • WVsoleWVsole Posts: 58 Deckhand
    Water is defianely at emergency levels for sure, we got over 12 my way. It seems we are getting more rain in the dry season than we did in the summer rain season. I guess we don't need to worry about droughts, but the skeeters sure are raging. Positive thing about El Niño, it helps keep hurricanes activity our way lower than normal, on paper anyways. I still liked to throat punch El Niño, making it hard for me to paint my house.
  • silentfaithsilentfaith Posts: 362 Deckhand
    30 years ago when orlando wasn't the big city it is today the kissimee river flowed south naturally, wasn't polluted. today with all the oil, sewer, poison, fertilizers, spike 4d (agent orange fpl and others use to keep trees away from the lines) all collects in this river and flows to lake okeechobee which then flows east and west instead of south the way god meant it flow. but big sugar bought all the land south cheap and pays sneaky thiefs like rubio and nelson to keep it this way. the water is so polluted it has actually killed people swimming in the poison water. these are the facts folks. it is bad, really bad.
  • I can tell you a happy bunch of people, the O&M guys at SFWMD. Everyone is getting a bunch of overtime running all those pump stations!
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 868 Officer
    30 years ago when orlando wasn't the big city it is today the kissimee river flowed south naturally, wasn't polluted. today with all the oil, sewer, poison, fertilizers, spike 4d (agent orange fpl and others use to keep trees away from the lines) all collects in this river and flows to lake okeechobee which then flows east and west instead of south the way god meant it flow. but big sugar bought all the land south cheap and pays sneaky thiefs like rubio and nelson to keep it this way. the water is so polluted it has actually killed people swimming in the poison water. these are the facts folks. it is bad, really bad.

    all the stuff you mentioned is not used around Stuart or Ft Myers ????
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,145 Admiral
    Nope , 30 years ago Orlando was a bunch of Cow farms and the water was pure...:rotflmao
    We just traded one poison for another..at least cow poop is natural and Biodegradable , now it has all you mentioned as well.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 868 Officer
    there is more politics than pollution with this problem.....seems like no one wants to do frequent and accurate water testing at locations around and above the lake and at various points in the rivers the lake water enters and make the results public information on a frequent schedule....this could be done with funds coming from grants to schools and other non partisan groups....then we can know which way to point our fingers....
    and i learned as a child, when it rains a lot the water gets muddy..
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,145 Admiral
    Ahhhh , Salty , They been doing that for Years.
    No need to start another Government Program. We Know where to point fingers. Start pointing them and see how fast they get broke.
    It ain't CIA stuff here....
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 3,573 Captain
    Yesterday Taylor Slough water levels looked to be at mid-summer high levels -huge flow seen in every drain (for those not familiar with the Park - just after you come through the gate on the way down to Flamingo that first two miles is Taylor Slough - a major flow-way from north to south ending in Florida Bay). Don't believe I've ever seen it this high in early February.... Freaky as it is the high waters in the southern portion of the 'Glades is purely natural - all that darned rain we had in December plus a lot more since... this is supposed to be the dry season - but not so far....

    As far as Lake Okeechobee... water managers are scared to death that the old Herbert Hoover dike will fail if the water gets too high.... Read The Swamp by Grunwald for an accurate description of what happened the last time a much smaller dike failed during a hurricane... Hundreds and hundreds of lives lost (imagine a wall of water coming south in the dead of night....). To fix the problem and stop the discharges east and west (St. Lucie and Caloosahatchee) would cost a ton of money and so far the voting public has never stepped up.... If anyone can correct me I'll be glad to listen -this situation has been going on for years now with bad results on both coasts whenever all that fresh water hits places that ought to have salt (never mind the pollution angle - the freshwater alone is bad enough....).
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 868 Officer
    Ahhhh , Salty , They been doing that for Years.
    No need to start another Government Program. We Know where to point fingers. Start pointing them and see how fast they get broke.
    It ain't CIA stuff here....

    I suggested non-partisan testing.....what has been done in the past was a joke as far as accuracy and could be tweaked to satisfy those agencies or groups taking water samples..I know it ain't CIA stuff , but the way testing is done now is a joke.....a good example is testing water quality here in the Stuart area....the samples were taken by someone at the same time,same place,let's say 10 am, each week and published..what they seemed to forgot was that the stage of the tide and the current flow was different each week.....that equals : low tide,bad water,.... high tide, good water
  • Cut runnerCut runner Posts: 948 Officer
    Eh, I agree to a point about the tides but yesterday the water was brown all the way out to 300 feet out of St lucie inlet. At that point it just stays the same because the north current can't take it away fast enough during an outgoing tide. And doesn't replenish fast enough with clear water from the south.
    Orlando and especially Disney and the parks are the problem. The Lake is the "face to blame" for the problem..
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,346 AG
    When the corps of engineers straightened the Kissimee river...was the beginning of the end......
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • JoeBCJoeBC Posts: 608 Officer
    lemaymiami wrote: »
    Yesterday Taylor Slough water levels looked to be at mid-summer high levels -huge flow seen in every drain (for those not familiar with the Park - just after you come through the gate on the way down to Flamingo that first two miles is Taylor Slough - a major flow-way from north to south ending in Florida Bay). Don't believe I've ever seen it this high in early February.... Freaky as it is the high waters in the southern portion of the 'Glades is purely natural - all that darned rain we had in December plus a lot more since... this is supposed to be the dry season - but not so far....

    Bob,

    How do you think this will effect the seagrass out front come summer? Is this going to mean next summer will be even worse than the recent one or will that be determined more by when the rains start in the summer?
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 3,573 Captain
    The problem in the northern portions of Florida Bay was never too much freshwater - it's been the opposite -water much too salty... I have no idea how this winter's high water will translate down the line to Florida Bay,but more freshwater is still needed to restore the balance of salt/fresh and it needs to be a permanent part of any solution. This is just a guess on my part but years ago when we successfully got the Park to plug Buttonwood Canal in 1980 (the consensus then was that entirely too much salt water was coming up inside Whitewater...). we set in motion the eventual, terrible "dead zone" that lasted some years in the portion of Florida Bay from the Dump Keys almost all the way east to Key Largo. Remember the Everglades evolved over thousands of years as a continuous mixing of freshwater flowing south from Orlando all the down to Florida Bay (that water, by the way, was almost completely nutrient free pure limestone filtered water). All the talk about pollution levels in Lake Okeechobee and areas north of the lake involve mostly the nutrients (phosphorus levels for instance) that agriculture and cattle production have added to the water....

    That flow of freshwater into the Everglades system was interrupted over the last 100 years by the rise of cities along the east coast along with the flood control needed to keep them in good condition. No development from Palm Beach all the way south to Florida City could ever have happened without flood control.... In the process we started the drying out of the 'Glades and began to seriously disrupt things down in Florida Bay. None of this is new... we've been fighting these same battles now ever since I first came out of the service, winding up in Miami to go to school in 1971. Along with that, the all important freshwater flow (both above and below ground in springs) has to come in a yearly drought/flood cycle. It's supposed to flood for six months (the wet season) then go into a drought for the other half a year - an endless cycle (and you can add fire to the mix since at the end of every dry season you can count on fires in the 'Glades to help renew the plant life... All the wildlife, by the way, has evolved to live with this flood/drought cycle as well (nesting birds have their babies during the drought since that's when the nests won't get flooded out (you can be sure that this very wet winter will put some pressure on ground nesting birds this year...) and the adult birds can feed easily as small bait is forced into smaller and smaller puddles...

    While we're looking at this you should remember that a series of court cases with many different players have resulted in consent decrees and judicial orders that have pushed the situation into stalemate... so no one seems to be able to do much of anything without some judge or out of state agency giving the go ahead. Take water, for instance, agriculture has really cleaned up it's act over the years and the water leaving farms is in much better condition now than before -but the Everglades has said it cannot accept water with phosphorus levels above a certain level (10 parts per milion, if I remember correctly)... As a result critically needed water isn't allowed to enter the Park becuase it just isn't "clean enough" ... when that same water is desperately needed throughout the system...

    And so it goes... -Vonnegut
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,145 Admiral
    Sooo..
    We have water with too many nurtrients that can not flow into the Park , or thru Indian Lands and because of that we have too much Saltwater in the back bays killing off the Grass.
    Sounds like a Win for Fiddler Crabs...They like wide open Mud Banks..:cry
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • tijeretatijereta Posts: 231 Deckhand
    30 years ago when orlando wasn't the big city it is today the kissimee river flowed south naturally, wasn't polluted. today with all the oil, sewer, poison, fertilizers, spike 4d (agent orange fpl and others use to keep trees away from the lines) all collects in this river and flows to lake okeechobee which then flows east and west instead of south the way god meant it flow. but big sugar bought all the land south cheap and pays sneaky thiefs like rubio and nelson to keep it this way. the water is so polluted it has actually killed people swimming in the poison water. these are the facts folks. it is bad, really bad.

    30 years ago The Kissimmee River did not flowed south in a natural way. In the late 60's it was channeled and a lot of problems developed because of it.
  • Lead slingerLead slinger Posts: 449 Officer
    lemaymiami wrote: »
    The problem in the northern portions of Florida Bay was never too much freshwater - it's been the opposite -water much too salty... I have no idea how this winter's high water will translate down the line to Florida Bay,but more freshwater is still needed to restore the balance of salt/fresh and it needs to be a permanent part of any solution. This is just a guess on my part but years ago when we successfully got the Park to plug Buttonwood Canal in 1980 (the consensus then was that entirely too much salt water was coming up inside Whitewater...). we set in motion the eventual, terrible "dead zone" that lasted some years in the portion of Florida Bay from the Dump Keys almost all the way east to Key Largo. Remember the Everglades evolved over thousands of years as a continuous mixing of freshwater flowing south from Orlando all the down to Florida Bay (that water, by the way, was almost completely nutrient free pure limestone filtered water). All the talk about pollution levels in Lake Okeechobee and areas north of the lake involve mostly the nutrients (phosphorus levels for instance) that agriculture and cattle production have added to the water....

    That flow of freshwater into the Everglades system was interrupted over the last 100 years by the rise of cities along the east coast along with the flood control needed to keep them in good condition. No development from Palm Beach all the way south to Florida City could ever have happened without flood control.... In the process we started the drying out of the 'Glades and began to seriously disrupt things down in Florida Bay. None of this is new... we've been fighting these same battles now ever since I first came out of the service, winding up in Miami to go to school in 1971. Along with that, the all important freshwater flow (both above and below ground in springs) has to come in a yearly drought/flood cycle. It's supposed to flood for six months (the wet season) then go into a drought for the other half a year - an endless cycle (and you can add fire to the mix since at the end of every dry season you can count on fires in the 'Glades to help renew the plant life... All the wildlife, by the way, has evolved to live with this flood/drought cycle as well (nesting birds have their babies during the drought since that's when the nests won't get flooded out (you can be sure that this very wet winter will put some pressure on ground nesting birds this year...) and the adult birds can feed easily as small bait is forced into smaller and smaller puddles...

    While we're looking at this you should remember that a series of court cases with many different players have resulted in consent decrees and judicial orders that have pushed the situation into stalemate... so no one seems to be able to do much of anything without some judge or out of state agency giving the go ahead. Take water, for instance, agriculture has really cleaned up it's act over the years and the water leaving farms is in much better condition now than before -but the Everglades has said it cannot accept water with phosphorus levels above a certain level (10 parts per milion, if I remember correctly)... As a result critically needed water isn't allowed to enter the Park becuase it just isn't "clean enough" ... when that same water is desperately needed throughout the system...

    And so it goes... -Vonnegut
    Bob, i really got to get out with you if life will ever calm down for a few days straight so I can. I was back in Taylor a few days ago doing some poking around and comparing old maps and photos for another project I'm working on. The entire time I kept an eye on the flow. Like you mentioned around the culverts at the entrance and just before RP turnoff, its the same down from pine island along the old road and sw of the donut. Strong flow headed down, yet lower down say south of long pine I noticed a lot less evidence of that same flow. Whether it's the water fanning out over a greater area or what I dunno, just something I noticed. Back to flamingo in the morning so we'll see how much it's picked up with this last rain.

    Thanks for sharing a little knowledge from before my time.
  • SumotimeSumotime Posts: 178 Officer
    Mr Lemay,
    Interesting read. so if you were King of Florida how would you fix the water issues . Interested in your opinion.
  • Move everyone to North of Orlando and bulldoze all the levees and canals.......

    Heck they are telling us Global Warming is gonna do that anyway.
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