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Except a Man Be Born Again, He Cannot See the Kingdom of God

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  • Why conservative Christians would have hated Jesus

    Even as they profess to spread his word, fundamentalists are forgetting Jesus' most important message.

    Jesus never could have been the pastor of a contemporary evangelical church nor a conservative Roman Catholic bishop. Evangelicals and conservative Roman Catholics thrive on drawing distinctions between their “truth” and other people’s failings. Jesus by contrast, set off an empathy time bomb that obliterates difference.

    Jesus’ empathy bomb explodes every time a former evangelical puts love ahead of what the “Bible says.” It goes off every time Pope Francis puts inclusion ahead of dogma. It goes off every time a gay couple are welcomed into a church. Jesus’ time bomb explodes whenever atheists follow Jesus better than most Christians.

    In the “pro-life” and allegedly “family friendly” American Bible belt, conservative political leaders slash programs designed to help women and children while creating a justifying mythology about handouts versus empowerment.

    In “God-fearing America” the poor are now the “takers,” no longer the “least of these,” and many conservative evangelicals side with today’s Pharisees, attacking the poor in the name of following the Bible.

    So who is following Jesus?

    Confronted by the Bible cult called evangelicalism we have a choice: follow Jesus or follow a book cult. If Jesus is God as evangelicals and Roman Catholics claim he is, then the choice is clear. We have to read the book–including the New Testament–as he did, and Jesus didn’t like the “Bible” of his day.

    Confronted by bishops protecting dogma and tradition against Pope Francis’ embrace of empathy for the “other” we have a choice: follow Jesus or protect the institution.

    Every time Jesus mentioned the equivalent of a church tradition, the Torah, he qualified it with something like this: “The scriptures say thus and so, but I say…” Jesus undermined the scriptures and religious tradition in favor of empathy. Every time Jesus undermined the scriptures (Jewish “church tradition”) it was to err on the side of co-suffering love.Every time Pope Francis sides with those the Church casts out he is closer to Jesus.

    A leper came to Jesus and said, “Lord, if you choose, you can make me clean.” If Jesus had been a good religious Jew, he would have said, “Be healed,” and just walked away. Instead, he stretched out his hand and touched the leper, saying, “I do choose. Be made clean,” even though he was breaking the specific rules of Leviticus. Two chapters teach that anyone touching a person with leprosy is contaminated.

    In evangelical and Roman Catholic fundamentalist terms, Jesus was a rule-breaking humanist who wasn’t “saved.” A conservative bishop would have refused Jesus the sacraments. Christianity Today magazine would have editorialized against him, called for his firing, banning and branded him a traitor to the cause of Christianity.

    The message of Jesus’ life is an intervention in and an acceleration of the evolution of empathy. Consider this story from the book of Matthew: “A woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. She said to herself, ‘If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.’ Jesus turned and saw her. ‘Take heart, daughter,’ he said, ‘your faith has healed you.’ And the woman was healed at that moment.”

    Jesus recognized a bleeding woman touching him as a sign of faith. By complimenting rather than rebuking her, Jesus ignored another of his scripture’s rules: “If a woman has a discharge of blood for many days, not at the time her [period], or if she has a discharge beyond the time, all the days of her discharge she shall continue in uncleanness… Every bed on which she lies during all the days of her discharge shall be treated as [unclean]… Everything on which she sits shall be unclean … Whoever touches these things shall be unclean” (Leviticus 15:25).

    Jesus’ un-first-century antics went beyond coddling lepers and welcoming the touch of a bleeding woman. Jesus’ embrace of a woman from an enemy tribe in a culture where tribal belonging was paramount distressed both his followers and enemies. His attitude to the “other” was as incomprehensible as if he’d blurted “ E=mc2 is the equation of mass–energy equivalence.” Even the Samaritan woman at the well knew that his actions were shocking. When Jesus stopped to talk to her, she said, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink? For Jews do not associate with Samaritans” (John 4:9).

    Jesus responded by attacking the preeminence of religion, tradition, dogma and group identity, offering an entirely new way of looking at spirituality by emphasizing basic human dignity above nation, state, gender or religion:

    “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth” (John 4:19–24).

    “Worship in the Spirit and in truth,” is not about a book, let alone “salvation” through correct ideas or tradition. For people who call Jesus “the Son of God” you’d think they would also reject the veneration of the book he’s trapped in and church dogma that has crucified him again each time a gay man or divorced couple are refused the sacraments.

    Evangelicals struggle to conform Jesus to a book, not the other way around. And the conservative bishops have aligned themselves with the American neoconservative wing of their church against not just the Pope Francis but against the emancipating logic of Jesus’ empathy time bomb. If Jesus isn’t the “lens” evangelicals and Roman Catholics read the Bible and their traditions through then whatever they say to the contrary they do not really believe Jesus is the son of God.

    - Frank Schaeffer, WHY I AM AN ATHEIST WHO BELIEVES IN GOD: How to give love, create beauty and find peace
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

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  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    roto7777 wrote: »
    That is a crap answer to a couple simple questions.......enjoy your mushrooms

    Too bad the little grey cells can't take the elevator while you serve the Pope & traffic in dope drugging people without their knowledge; but for something other than the same churchstate Muslim pedophile demagoguery as crusaded, here's some history without any mush to read between while in the bubble room: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    No doubt American "conservative Christians would have hated Jesus" or worse.
    Why conservative Christians would have hated Jesus

    They'd surely brand him a drunk gay socialist taker who hates America & judge him to be the scum of the Earth.
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    No doubt American "conservative Christians would have hated Jesus" or worse.



    They'd surely brand him a drunk gay socialist taker who hates America & judge him to be the scum of the Earth.

    More likely an American conservative Christian political party of **** SS pedophiles churchstate somewhat equivalent to just about how many of them there really were running concentration camps; just as lynching enforcement is today trying to be more lily brilliant white super egotistical than their Muslim counterparts from 2000+ years ago. In this day & age seems the burning bushes knew exactly how Muslims react to the Christian Nations national religion of being "man is God" pedophiles; but the story is to H with the US & it's Constitution for their Fourth Reich second coming Kingdom of Christiananality menatlities Islamidiotocracy branding of humanity.
  • DancinGeneDancinGene Posts: 1,760 Captain
    More likely an American conservative Christian political party of **** SS pedophiles churchstate somewhat equivalent to just about how many of them there really were running concentration camps; just as lynching enforcement is today trying to be more lily brilliant white super egotistical than their Muslim counterparts from 2000+ years ago. In this day & age seems the burning bushes knew exactly how Muslims react to the Christian Nations national religion of being "man is God" pedophiles; but the story is to H with the US & it's Constitution for their Fourth Reich second coming Kingdom of Christiananality menatlities Islamidiotocracy branding of humanity.



    Couldn't have said it better myself.
  • nofishtodaynofishtoday Posts: 1,318 Officer
    De RAILED :Bike
  • The MelManThe MelMan Posts: 4,038 Captain
    That's because in response to you, there are no indications at all that there are more instances of pedophilia between denominations.

    A significant amount of pedophilia comes from the gay community, 25% in one study; while gays constitute maybe 1% of the population.
    2012-2013 FloridaSportsman BCS Bowl Poll Champion

    Northwest Nascar Champion 2012, 2017

    "2011-2012 BCS Bowl Poll Champion".
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    The MelMan wrote: »
    A significant amount of pedophilia comes from the gay community, 25% in one study; while gays constitute maybe 1% of the population.

    Great news though for that alleged 25%, charm a few snakes, testify a bit in tongues, and abracadabra, kingdom of God is theirs.

    Enjoy your neighbors.
  • The MelManThe MelMan Posts: 4,038 Captain
    Great news though for that alleged 25%, charm a few snakes, testify a bit in tongues, and abracadabra, kingdom of God is theirs.

    Enjoy your neighbors.

    Great news to be molested by a pedophile? hmmm, maybe we are getting to the root of your problems BT.........
    2012-2013 FloridaSportsman BCS Bowl Poll Champion

    Northwest Nascar Champion 2012, 2017

    "2011-2012 BCS Bowl Poll Champion".
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    The MelMan wrote: »
    Great news to be molested by a pedophile? hmmm, maybe we are getting to the root of your problems BT.........

    No silly, is it not great news that they can join you in the kingdom of God?
  • The MelManThe MelMan Posts: 4,038 Captain
    No silly, is it not great news that they can join you in the kingdom of God?

    God makes those decisions.............I stay away from the judges gavel ..........What happens to them here on earth is society's decision. Personally I don't think they should be encourage..............I agree in discouraging this kind of behavior where I live with my family
    2012-2013 FloridaSportsman BCS Bowl Poll Champion

    Northwest Nascar Champion 2012, 2017

    "2011-2012 BCS Bowl Poll Champion".
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    The MelMan wrote: »
    God makes those decisions.............I stay away from the judges gavel ..........What happens to them here on earth is society's decision. Personally I don't think they should be encourage..............I agree in discouraging this kind of behavior where I live with my family

    The same could be said of the dogs of war.
  • The MelMan wrote: »
    A significant amount of pedophilia comes from the gay community, 25% in one study; while gays constitute maybe 1% of the population.

    There is no linkage.

    http://psc.dss.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

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  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    More likely an American conservative Christian political party of **** SS pedophiles churchstate somewhat equivalent to just about how many of them there really were running concentration camps; just as lynching enforcement is today trying to be more lily brilliant white super egotistical than their Muslim counterparts from 2000+ years ago. In this day & age seems the burning bushes knew exactly how Muslims react to the Christian Nations national religion of being "man is God" pedophiles; but the story is to H with the US & it's Constitution for their Fourth Reich second coming Kingdom of Christiananality menatlities Islamidiotocracy branding of humanity.

    I understand everything you just said.









    and it is a steaming pile of pseudo idiocy.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,546 AG
    fins4me wrote: »
    I understand everything you just said


    and it is a steaming pile of pseudo idiocy.

    I don't think it's " pseudo" idiocy. :shrug
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    This thread is so full of hyperbole and stupidity it wells up both anger and pity.

    First off,,, Jesus would certainly be as comfortable in the church I am a member of as anyplace else he may come in contact with what is a far from perfect modern group of human beings.

    He would certainly find a gay couple who are members of our church. Do I agree with them? NO,,, Do i hate them? NO I welcome them as imperfect people just as I am an imperfect person.

    Jesus would find my church to be one of giving,,, we feed the sick and poor,,, we send missionaries to Africa to build schools and install clean water stations.

    He would find poor and well off families setting side by side. Each often inviting the other to their homes for a Sunday afternoon meal while our kids do things together.

    He would find single moms, former drunks along with some not so former ones.

    He would sit among a group of people who do not believe the preacher is capable of performing miracles, speaking in tongues or one who would ever have the desire to pick up a stupid snake.

    He would not hear a political message or one that inspires hate.

    We are patriotic citizens who believe that our country can be an instrument of good but it is NOT the nations responsibility to do what we as individuals are instructed by God to do.

    Many of us tithe plus with the understanding that some among us may not be at the place in their faith that allows them to do so.

    Jesus would sit in a church building that has parts of its foundation that is over 100 years old. It is not extravagant but it is kept and has been expanded in such a way that welcomes others in and allows those inside to feel comfortable and safe while it is used for worship, community gatherings and recreation.

    He would find people who believe in caring for the needs of those around us as we can but with the understanding that we expect them to try to help themselves in return.


    Jesus would see between 200 and 300 people gathered together to hear the word of God. A group that knows he is the son of God and who only wish to support each other and gather as a like minded group in worship. Most churches are very much the same.


    It is silly and ignorant the way so many here throw out accusations against Christianity based off of their narrow sighted and foolish notions.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Reel Mayhem TooReel Mayhem Too Posts: 1,332 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    This thread is so full of hyperbole and stupidity it wells up both anger and pity.

    First off,,, Jesus would certainly be as comfortable in the church I am a member of as anyplace else he may come in contact with what is a far from perfect modern group of human beings.

    He would certainly find a gay couple who are members of our church. Do I agree with them? NO,,, Do i hate them? NO I welcome them as imperfect people just as I am an imperfect person.

    Jesus would find my church to be one of giving,,, we feed the sick and poor,,, we send missionaries to Africa to build schools and install clean water stations.

    He would find poor and well off families setting side by side. Each often inviting the other to their homes for a Sunday afternoon meal while our kids do things together.

    He would find single moms, former drunks along with some not so former ones.

    He would sit among a group of people who do not believe the preacher is capable of performing miracles, speaking in tongues or one who would ever have the desire to pick up a stupid snake.

    He would not hear a political message or one that inspires hate.

    We are patriotic citizens who believe that our country can be an instrument of good but it is NOT the nations responsibility to do what we as individuals are instructed by God to do.

    Many of us tithe plus with the understanding that some among us may not be at the place in their faith that allows them to do so.

    Jesus would sit in a church building that has parts of its foundation that is over 100 years old. It is not extravagant but it is kept and has been expanded in such a way that welcomes others in and allows those inside to feel comfortable and safe while it is used for worship, community gatherings and recreation.

    He would find people who believe in caring for the needs of those around us as we can but with the understanding that we expect them to try to help themselves in return.


    Jesus would see between 200 and 300 people gathered together to hear the word of God. A group that knows he is the son of God and who only wish to support each other and gather as a like minded group in worship


    It is silly and ignorant the way so many here throw out accusations against Christianity based off of their narrow sighted and foolish notions.

    Great, thoughtful post, thank you for your service to humanity.
  • roto7777roto7777 Posts: 2,545 Captain
    Ok, I'll be your Huckleberry. This should be fun...An atheist article telling us how conservatives can't follow Christ....I'll be blue, since Red letters are reserved for Christ....here we go.......
    Why conservative Christians would have hated Jesus

    Even as they profess to spread his word, fundamentalists are forgetting Jesus' most important message. I remember that as, "above all these, love your neighbor as yourself". How am I doing so far?

    Jesus never could have been the pastor of a contemporary evangelical church nor a conservative Roman Catholic bishop. Evangelicals and conservative Roman Catholics thrive on drawing distinctions between their “truth” and other people’s failings. Jesus by contrast, set off an empathy time bomb that obliterates difference. Really, let's go to the word of Christ Himself...John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"....That is Christ's truth...there is no grey area. You think he allows people access any other way?.......
    "

    Jesus’ empathy bomb explodes every time a former evangelical puts love ahead of what the “Bible says.” It goes off every time Pope Francis puts inclusion ahead of dogma. It goes off every time a gay couple are welcomed into a church. Jesus’ time bomb explodes whenever atheists follow Jesus better than most Christians. "Jesus' empathy bomb"....lololol....Gay couples are allowed into my church. We don't have security looking out for gays. As far as atheists following Jesus "better", I challenge an atheist to tell their friend how Jesus has changed his life, and wanting to share the good news of his love too all who will listen.


    oops my lab stepped on my computer and finished it, so, I'm now editing to the bottom....


    In the “pro-life” and allegedly “family friendly” American Bible belt, conservative political leaders slash programs designed to help women and children while creating a justifying mythology about handouts versus empowerment. Would these programs include abortion funding? I don't think Jesus would take kindly at all to that. He was pretty clear about not being a hindrance to children. I will pick this thought up on the next paragraph...

    In “God-fearing America” the poor are now the “takers,” no longer the “least of these,” and many conservative evangelicals side with today’s Pharisees, attacking the poor in the name of following the Bible. The problem is not with the poor, it is the abled bodied women and men who take money from the system that should go to the people who are in actual need. Reforming those who steal from welfare is not attacking women and children.

    So who is following Jesus?

    Confronted by the Bible cult called evangelicalism we have a choice: follow Jesus or follow a book cult. If Jesus is God as evangelicals and Roman Catholics claim he is, then the choice is clear. We have to read the book–including the New Testament–as he did, and Jesus didn’t like the “Bible” of his day. Jesus didn't like the Bible....that's a new one.......considering He said he was fulfilling scripture.

    Confronted by bishops protecting dogma and tradition against Pope Francis’ embrace of empathy for the “other” we have a choice: follow Jesus or protect the institution. Jesus does not change...Hebrews 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings;

    Every time Jesus mentioned the equivalent of a church tradition, the Torah, he qualified it with something like this: “The scriptures say thus and so, but I say…” Jesus undermined the scriptures and religious tradition in favor of empathy. REALLYEvery time Jesus undermined the scriptures (Jewish “church tradition”) it was to err on the side of co-suffering love.Every time Pope Francis sides with those the Church casts out he is closer to Jesus. Oh really........."undermined the scriptures and religious tradition in favor of empathy".....look at Matthew 19:8 Jesus' Teaching about Divorce
    7They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?" 8He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."…...undermine in favor of empathy?...Jesus was MUCH firmer on divorce than the scriptures....


    A leper came to Jesus and said, “Lord, if you choose, you can make me clean.” If Jesus had been a good religious Jew, he would have said, “Be healed,” and just walked away. Instead, he stretched out his hand and touched the leper, saying, “I do choose. Be made clean,” even though he was breaking the specific rules of Leviticus. Two chapters teach that anyone touching a person with leprosy is contaminated. Jesus did this often, even asking "is it good to do evil or good on the Sabbath. We celebrate that with Him.

    In evangelical and Roman Catholic fundamentalist terms, Jesus was a rule-breaking humanist who wasn’t “saved.” A conservative bishop would have refused Jesus the sacraments. Christianity Today magazine would have editorialized against him, called for his firing, banning and branded him a traitor to the cause of Christianity. Hogwash.....He would act as the person we study, and we would glorify Him.

    The message of Jesus’ life is an intervention in and an acceleration of the evolution of empathy. Consider this story from the book of Matthew: “A woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. She said to herself, ‘If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.’ Jesus turned and saw her. ‘Take heart, daughter,’ he said, ‘your faith has healed you.’ And the woman was healed at that moment.”

    Jesus recognized a bleeding woman touching him as a sign of faith. By complimenting rather than rebuking her, Jesus ignored another of his scripture’s rules: “If a woman has a discharge of blood for many days, not at the time her [period], or if she has a discharge beyond the time, all the days of her discharge she shall continue in uncleanness… Every bed on which she lies during all the days of her discharge shall be treated as [unclean]… Everything on which she sits shall be unclean … Whoever touches these things shall be unclean” (Leviticus 15:25). Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophesy, and ushured in a new covenant. He is the reason we don't sacrifice animals at the alter anymore. Your writer is unschooled on the subject. The article should be written to Old Testament Jews, not modern day Christians.

    Jesus’ un-first-century antics went beyond coddling lepers and welcoming the touch of a bleeding woman. Jesus’ embrace of a woman from an enemy tribe in a culture where tribal belonging was paramount distressed both his followers and enemies. His attitude to the “other” was as incomprehensible as if he’d blurted “ E=mc2 is the equation of mass–energy equivalence.” Even the Samaritan woman at the well knew that his actions were shocking. When Jesus stopped to talk to her, she said, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink? For Jews do not associate with Samaritans” (John 4:9).

    Jesus responded by attacking the preeminence of religion, tradition, dogma and group identity, offering an entirely new way of looking at spirituality by emphasizing basic human dignity above nation, state, gender or religion: 1+1 never equals 8...your writer makes a false jump here. Treating the Samaritan woman kindly did not change spirituality.....guess what Jesus would have said if she asked "is there only one way to God the Father? Yep, I am the only way to the Father

    “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth” (John 4:19–24). Correct Quote.....

    “Worship in the Spirit and in truth,” is not about a book, let alone “salvation” through correct ideas or tradition. For people who call Jesus “the Son of God” you’d think they would also reject the veneration of the book he’s trapped in and church dogma that has crucified him again each time a gay man or divorced couple are refused the sacraments. “Worship in the Spirit and in truth,” is about a risen Christ and the Holy Spirit guiding us. Christ is not "crucified again" every time a gay couple is refused the sacraments...I don't even know what religions refuse sacraments to gays, i go to a Presbyterian church, and all we require is that a person has put their trust in Christ prior to receiving sacraments.

    Evangelicals struggle to conform Jesus to a book, not the other way around. And the conservative bishops have aligned themselves with the American neoconservative wing of their church against not just the Pope Francis but against the emancipating logic of Jesus’ empathy time bomb. If Jesus isn’t the “lens” evangelicals and Roman Catholics read the Bible and their traditions through then whatever they say to the contrary they do not really believe Jesus is the son of God. I don't speak for any Catholics, and I don't align my self with the Pope, but i follow the teachings of Christ, and the idea of a Jesus empathy time bomb, is simply Jesus of the scriptures loving people, but guess what....He also said in John 14:6-7, 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." He still is the only way, and the idea that "Jesus never could have been the pastor of a contemporary evangelical church" is completely wrong........He already is the head of all believers.


    - Frank Schaeffer, WHY I AM AN ATHEIST WHO BELIEVES IN GOD: How to give love, create beauty and find peace
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    I understand everything you just said. and it is a steaming pile of pseudo idiocy.

    Like an understanding in the mid '70's KKK churchstate cops dictated no one would ever convict them of anything for attacking Americans with 9/11's steaming pile of pseudo idiocracy? Just because Christianity's second coming of liberty & justice for all the Christians didn't result in the business result they were expecting; war waged against Islam with immaculate conceptions starting a 21st century ethnic cleansing with it's now more BO with a Nazified compulsive-obsession continuation of business with ISIS & ISIL just leaves another mark on civilization from those suicidal until there's nothing left.
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    roto7777 wrote: »
    Who was that directed at? Just curious what a person must say to illicit such a response.........

    Seems nothing has changed since the 60's where if one cross is a swastika practicing pedophile acts on a Holocaust level, all the crosses are swastikas using whatever different forms of Islams Muslim pedophile attacks on humanity they've developed to establish their pseudo religious oilgarchy. Who knew one nation under God had so many KKK churchstate cops Kristallnachting with Christianitys' modern drug trafficking business.
  • roto7777 wrote: »
    Ok, I'll be your Huckleberry

    ...the idle tongues, the poverty of mind...
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    ...the idle tongues, the poverty of mind...

    Not much reason to watch onward Christian soldiers in their triumphs of having a POTUS; ironically a slave to the 9/11 Kristallnacht of the predecessor burning bushes & all the kings men that are nothing more than practicing pedophiles with a flourishing drug trade no matter how much propaganda they need to convince others. Must be hilarious to the rest of the world, except for putting lives in harms way of their super egos.
  • BudaBuda Posts: 2,062 Captain
    No matter how you might attempt to disguise, demean, dodge, or distort this truth, the fact is, and will always remain, as Jesus said,"that except a man be born again, He cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Holy Bible John 3:3)
  • ...the idle tongues, the poverty of mind...

    Not much reason to watch onward Christian soldiers in their triumphs of having a POTUS; ironically a slave to the 9/11 Kristallnacht of the predecessor burning bushes & all the kings men that are nothing more than practicing pedophiles with a flourishing drug trade no matter how much propaganda they need to convince others. Must be hilarious to the rest of the world, except for putting lives in harms way of their super egos.

    Must be....
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    Buda wrote: »
    No matter how you might attempt to disguise, demean, dodge, or distort this truth, the fact is, and will always remain, as Jesus said,"that except a man be born again, He cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Holy Bible John 3:3)

    Must be the Islamic Kingdom of Muslim pedophiles making all of Christianity slaves to their psychological warfares as God. Nothing to see; it's been done before as it's still not under God.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 32,652 AG
    Buda wrote: »
    No matter how you might attempt to disguise, demean, dodge, or distort this truth, the fact is, and will always remain, as Jesus said,"that except a man be born again, He cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Holy Bible John 3:3)

    Another bad interpretation. I believe this passage is talking about death, not baptism.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    Another bad interpretation. I believe this passage is talking about death, not baptism.

    In this Christian nation government of death, godvernment of drugs; doubt they could interpret all their thieving US Constitution arsonists as anything but baptized as Christian pedophiles for that's all the message ever is.
  • SpineymanSpineyman Destin, FlPosts: 8,347 Admiral
    cadman wrote: »
    Another bad interpretation. I believe this passage is talking about death, not baptism.

    What does Jesus mean we must be Born of water and of Spirit

    Lets read the whole conversation to get the teaching Jesus gave Nicodemus.

    John 3:1-13: “There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? "Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

    Jesus is having a conversation with Nicodemus, who was a Pharisee. Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in accordance to the Pharisee’s teaching- to be born of water meant to be born physically. This is proved by Nicodemus remark who thought to be born again meant a physical birth “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born? In verse 5, Jesus proceeds to say, “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus, who was a Pharisee, believed like the other Jews that because he was born a Jew and kept God’s ordinances that he should automatically enter into the kingdom of God. However, Jesus explains this is not enough. In verse 6, Jesus Himself interprets the water as flesh (a physical birth) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Jesus says of being born of water is to be born of the flesh. Jesus explains the difference, telling Nicodemus you have already had a physical birth, you are in need of a another birth “Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' Literally from the Spirit above to enter the kingdom. You must be born again “that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." The new birth from above is a second birth which gives us eternal life

    V.5 The new birth is invisible, he likens it to the wind. It is not from the water beneath (the flesh) but of the Spirit (literally, in the Greek, from above). He is contrasting the natural (flesh) to the spiritual (Spirit).

    There is always a distinction between water and Spirit baptism. Scripture tells us that John came baptizing in water but that, “There is one who will come after me. . . He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit” (Mk. 1:7-8; Mt. 3:11; Jn. 1:33). The flesh and the spirit are two different properties, two different things. So there are two births- one of the flesh and the other of the spirit that comes from God. John 3:6-7 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

    The term born of water is used only once by John but the term born of God (the Spirit) he uses numerous times.

    I Jn 4:7: “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” This is the love of God shed in a believers heart by believing the gospel.

    I Jn 5:1: “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.” This of course has to do with the gospel.

    I Jn 5:4: “ For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith” The new nature of the spirit of God has our affections change toward God and not toward the fallen world.

    I Jn 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. ”

    I Jn 5:18: “We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.” There is life change where one lives more in righteousness than they do in the old way of life in sin. John explains this in I Jn 2:29: “If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him” And Paul teaches this through the book of Romans especially chapter 6-7

    Romans 7:6 “But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.”

    The Bible teaches that a man is “born of God” (Greek- EK - out of). This description occurs four times in John’s epistle alone, 1 Jn. 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4. In all the instances where the source of the new birth is mentioned, the language is EK Him, EK God, or EK Spirit. John 1:12-13, we receive Christ by believing in His name, “not born by the will of man . . . but of God.” Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God uses creation (born of water) as part of conveying the new birth. The Greek preposition (“out of”) is never used elsewhere in connection anything else but its source which is God Himself.

    In John 3:3, the term “born-again” literally means “to be born from above,” is what happens by Jesus sending His Spirit to those who respond to the gospel. The very essence of regeneration is by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is an unseen work that one receives when they believe, they are then sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13).

    Born of God” To be begotten of God- to have his life, that is eternal along with the characteristics born anew is to love God and will certainly translate in loving the brethren. 1 Pt.1:22; 2 Pt.1:3 tells us we have been given His divine nature v.:5-8 “But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

    The context of Jn. 3:5 must be related to Jesus’ previous statement in Jn. 3:3 :“Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” There is only one new birth mentioned in this verse and it is from the Spirit as other Scriptures uphold. John 3:6-7: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again. .”’

    http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp67.htm
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!

    II Chronicles 7:14
    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    Buda wrote: »
    No matter how you might attempt to disguise, demean, dodge, or distort this truth, the fact is, and will always remain, as Jesus said,"that except a man be born again, He cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Holy Bible John 3:3)

    Fact or faith?
  • saltydancindavesaltydancindave Posts: 1,255 Officer
    Fact or faith?

    Fact is this Christian demagoguery jihad of let's all be Islam, to heck with everything & collect jizya from the Muslim-burning bushes 9/11 Kristallnacht of America with it's forlorn patriot act giving rise to a kingdom of "man is God" Christian pedophiles is really faithful to a never ending tune of being rabid Pavlov's dogs urinating on fire hydrants. Maybe it's why they only paint them red & white, the blue must disintegrate from caustic reaction & why a Christian Nation government doesn't tax churches. Can't tax the Islamic politics masquerade charade.
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