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Odd, I don't recall the Outrage and calls for "Justice"

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  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    The GD video proved it Mike, stop being an **** already.

    try telling some one to drop a gun, hands up 3 time in less than 2 seconds for starters.

    Look at the video, he was not sitting with other people at the table per the cops report

    Cop said he administered first aid, he did nothing of the sort, a near by FBI agent did that.

    Show us where he reached in that video

    I don't need to show or prove anything. You do. And you haven't.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    I don't need to show or prove anything. You do. And you haven't.

    I didn't have to prove anything, the video speaks for itself as well as this guy

    “Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment,” Polak concludes. “For these reasons, I am recommending he be released from the employment of the city of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.”

    But then again what would these professionals know, right Mike?
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    I didn't have to prove anything, the video speaks for itself as well as this guy

    “Due to this dangerous loss of composure during live range training and his inability to manage this personal stress, I do not believe Ptl Loehmann shows the maturity needed to work in our employment,” Polak concludes. “For these reasons, I am recommending he be released from the employment of the city of Independence. I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.”

    But then again what would these professionals know, right Mike?

    You do realize that it was AFTER the shooting, right? Imagine that. A human being has a hard time dealing with the fact that he killed a child. Imagine that.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    You do realize that it was AFTER the shooting, right? Imagine that. A human being has a hard time dealing with the fact that he killed a child. Imagine that.

    No Mike what I quoted was PRIOR to him working for Clevaland PD, stop posting you have no clue.

    Cleveland officer who fatally shot Tamir Rice judged unfit for duty in 2012
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/officer-who-fatally-shot-tamir-rice-had-been-judged-unfit
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    No Mike what I quoted was PRIOR to him working for Clevaland PD, stop posting you have no clue.

    Then take it up with Cyclist. He's the one that posted the article. I'm not going to look for it.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    Then take it up with Cyclist. He's the one that posted the article. I'm not going to look for it.

    Take what up with Cyclist? You said what I quoted was after the shoot, you were dead wrong and don't know about this cops past

    say like a pattern of incompetence and LYING Mike

    recommending Loehmann’s dismissal, Polak listed what he said were other performance shortcomings, including Loehmann’s having left his gun unlocked, lied to supervisors and failed to follow orders.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Cleveland hired a poorly functioning cop another department fired without due diligence and then backed him when he made a bad shoot to prevent more scrutiny on a police department known to have bad cops.
  • theglide96theglide96 Posts: 767 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    How does age change the perceptions of the police? Both were confronted with what they determined to be a weapon.

    Next Halloween I'll be sure to exercise the castle law when all those scary goblins and ghouls step up under the curtilage of my castle
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,543 AG
    theglide96 wrote: »
    Next Halloween I'll be sure to exercise the castle law when all those scary goblins and ghouls step up under the curtilage of my castle

    I believe you are trying to be sarcastic, but maybe you should post a disclaimer so it doesn't look so much like a threat?
  • theglide96theglide96 Posts: 767 Officer
    dave44 wrote: »
    I believe you are trying to be sarcastic, but maybe you should post a disclaimer so it doesn't look so much like a threat?

    Disclaimer: If there are any children planning on engaging in Halloween type activities keep in mind that adults (trained Law Enforcement) are incapable of differentiating a threat based on age. So any of the children here trolling the Political forum remember not to approach a residence donning TMNT attire brandishing a deadly plastic sword/nunchucks/a staff/sais as you will be deemed an danger to society.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    theglide96 wrote: »
    Next Halloween I'll be sure to exercise the castle law when all those scary goblins and ghouls step up under the curtilage of my castle

    This is just, well, stupid. Don't know any other way to describe it.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • theglide96theglide96 Posts: 767 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    This is just, well, stupid. Don't know any other way to describe it.

    I'd argue that justifying the shooting and killing of a 12yo posing no real threat is, well...stupid.

    You, likely, manage to avoid shooting children approaching your home with toy weapons every year. Does that make you, and myself for that matter, more capable of assessing threats?

    Marines stomping around in the sand seem to have more strict ROE than our nations LEOs. It's a sad state of affairs when our citizens can justify, to themselves and the interwebs, the killing of other citizens by the one's volunteering to protect and serve us. There are more good LEOs than bad...but the good ones need to take initiative, stand up, and separate themselves from the bad....because, unfortunately they are all getting lumped in together.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    theglide96 wrote: »
    I'd argue that justifying the shooting and killing of a 12yo posing no real threat is, well...stupid.

    You, likely, manage to avoid shooting children approaching your home with toy weapons every year. Does that make you, and myself for that matter, more capable of assessing threats?

    Marines stomping around in the sand seem to have more strict ROE than our nations LEOs. It's a sad state of affairs when our citizens can justify, to themselves and the interwebs, the killing of other citizens by the one's volunteering to protect and serve us. There are more good LEOs than bad...but the good ones need to take initiative, stand up, and separate themselves from the bad....because, unfortunately they are all getting lumped in together.

    Last time I checked, I'm not LEO. Therefore, I've never had anyone point a weapon at me intending to kill me. How about you? And to even remotely try to make a comparison about Halloween kids trick-or-treating and a situation where the police are called to a scene are called is asinine.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • theglide96theglide96 Posts: 767 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    Last time I checked, I'm not LEO. Therefore, I've never had anyone point a weapon at me intending to kill me. How about you? And to even remotely try to make a comparison about Halloween kids trick-or-treating and a situation where the police to a scene are called is asinine.

    Neither am I. Yes, I have.

    Obviously it's an extreme comparison...that's kinda the idea...but my point is about threat assessment and reasonable reaction. This incident isnt happening in a vacuum...LEOs killing unarmed citizens is becoming a twisted norm. No matter how you slice it that is a bad thing.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    theglide96 wrote: »
    Neither am I. Yes, I have.

    Obviously it's an extreme comparison...that's kinda the idea...but my point is about threat assessment and reasonable reaction. This incident isnt happening in a vacuum...LEOs killing unarmed citizens is becoming a twisted norm. No matter how you slice it that is a bad thing.

    What you are failing (or refusing) to acknowledge is that neither of them were unarmed. Only after the fact was it known that both had a BB gun.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 9,790 Admiral
    mikev wrote: »
    See a lot of you think a lot of us are actually glad that the kid died


    which is true ... and the resulting remarks confirm that
    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Gardawg wrote: »
    which is true ... and the resulting remarks confirm that

    You think folks are happy the kid was killed? To which remarks are you referring?
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • theglide96theglide96 Posts: 767 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    What you are failing (or refusing) to acknowledge is that neither of them were unarmed. Only after the fact was it known that both had a BB gun.


    Cmon guy....you really don't want our LEOs being held to higher standard? A pellet gun does not equal armed...it equals a threat, sure. What I am asking for is a better more composed reaction...maybe that is too much to ask from trained law enforcement. I'd argue that threats are quelled daily without a citizen being shot and killed. When we accept that LEOs are justified in using deadly force to engage a 'potential' threat and then not be held accountable when said threat was holding a toy, we are selling ourselves short.

    I'm not sure if these police shootings are making LEOs more aware of their actions or more brazen in their overreactions. Us not holding them accountable may be doing the latter.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    theglide96 wrote: »
    Cmon guy....you really don't want our LEOs being held to higher standard? A pellet gun does not equal armed...it equals a threat, sure. What I am asking for is a better more composed reaction...maybe that is too much to ask from trained law enforcement. I'd argue that threats are quelled daily without a citizen being shot and killed. When we accept that LEOs are justified in using deadly force to engage a 'potential' threat and then not be held accountable when said threat was holding a toy, we are selling ourselves short.

    I'm not sure if these police shootings are making LEOs more aware of their actions or more brazen in their overreactions. Us not holding them accountable may be doing the latter.

    It's simple really. Don't point a gun at a police officer.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • theglide96theglide96 Posts: 767 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    It's simple really. Don't point a gun or knife or run or crash your vehicle drunk or talk back or walk away from or turn your back on or sit in the back seat of a vehicle at a police officer.

    fify
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    All that happened in both of these incidents? Wow, I suppose I need to get some new glasses.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • theglide96theglide96 Posts: 767 Officer
    It's a layer of the onion...at least in my opinion. Do I think LEOs want to shoot citizens? Absolutely NOT!! Are these guys probably broken and hurting from these incidents? I imagine they are. What I am posing is that we, as a society, need to hold LEOs accountable for their mistakes. The problem, in my mind, isnt as much the rash of LEO involved killings as the lack of accountability. It appears that law enforcement has found itself justifying its officers misdeeds...as if they are allowed to overreact and kill citizens without consequence.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    theglide96 wrote: »
    It's a layer of the onion...at least in my opinion. Do I think LEOs want to shoot citizens? Absolutely NOT!! Are these guys probably broken and hurting from these incidents? I imagine they are. What I am posing is that we, as a society, need to hold LEOs accountable for their mistakes. The problem, in my mind, isnt as much the rash of LEO involved killings as the lack of accountability. It appears that law enforcement has found itself justifying its officers misdeeds...as if they are allowed to overreact and kill citizens without consequence.

    Excellent post and point. And I agree, with the exception of your use of the term "overreact". Nowhere did any one of us say that police shouldn't be accountable. But, in both of these cases that we've all been discussing, I can't and don't fault the police.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    mikev wrote: »
    It's simple really. Don't point a gun at a police officer.

    No one said he did. He was "reaching for the gun in his waistband" so they say. He could have been responding to "drop your weapon" IF the cops actually said in the less than 2 seconds they had before the shot the kid multiple times. The cops pulled up too close and left themselves no room and no option. You really think a kid is gonna shoot at officers with a toy gun? He died because the cops were incompetent and their actions caused a boy to die.
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