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A question on red fish and preservation

DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
Here in south west Florida there seems to be a shortage of slot size red fish. Wih all the tourneys (multiple on some weekends) do you think it has an effect on them. I mean you can go the day after and see them all dead on the bottom. I feel strongly this issue needs to be addressed
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Replies

  • What's stopping you Denise?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    NoThing. In fact the subjects already been discussed with the fwc staff
  • Who and what did you tell them?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Denise, read the thread right below yours: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?205480-regional-management

    It gets good a bit later in the thread with an awesome mod fight:grin

    I think Blair but the kybosh on it when it was just getting good.
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    Denise wrote: »
    Here in south west Florida there seems to be a shortage of slot size red fish. Wih all the tourneys (multiple on some weekends) do you think it has an effect on them. I mean you can go the day after and see them all dead on the bottom. I feel strongly this issue needs to be addressed
    Challenged excepted. Now I have something to look forward to in the spring and summer!!!!!! Pictures don't lie!
  • So who did you talk to and what did they say?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    You should have been at the meeting if you cared. i didn't bring up the subject a charter captains family member did but I agree. I'll back up my concerns with proof. It really needs to be addressed and a solution. Myself, the camera way is better and no culling your fish. It's an easy solution and good for the species. Way too many tourneys in sw floria and I've seen the destruction left behind. Maybe a fee for tourneys could be established and go into red fish hatcheries.
  • toomertoomer Posts: 343 Deckhand
    Interesting topic. I know in the BASS world initial mortality is quite low. However, delayed mortality (3-6 days) is significantly higher, especially in the summer time.

    Plenty of slot sized reds up here in NE Florida but I couldn't tell you if there are fewer tourneys up here. Would love to know if FWC is on this or not.

    A high rate of mortality from tournaments would really frost me if I were a commercial fisherman.
  • Denise wrote: »
    You should have been at the meeting if you cared. .

    :huh I attend all the the FWC meetings on redfish, snook, permit tarpon and reef fisheries, Denise and have for the last 20 years. Im all that time, I never saw you there. and I know what you look like.

    So when and where was this meeting and who did you meet with?

    What was discussed? What was the FWC response to your plan?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    I won't engage in how and when but I'm serious here it needs to be addressed. Brushing it under the table isn't the solution.
  • Denise wrote: »
    I won't engage in how and when...

    ...and I suspect that you haven't at all, Denise. :wink

    Redfish populations are not a priority concern right now. And don't really need to be made into one in an effort to cast aspersions at tournaments or their participants.

    There is no solution necessary, because there is no problem. You would have heard that from FWC biologists if your meeting actually did take place.

    Good troll though.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    You owned him. Lol. Which one is the sarcasm emoti. ??
    Poor Denis never had a chance. Especially after quoting himself. Lol
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    Darcy wrote: »
    You owned him. Lol. Which one is the sarcasm emoti. ??
    Poor Denis never had a chance. Especially after quoting himself. Lol



    Just wanted to try it.
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • Denise and I are longtime friends. She is a she.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    Darcy wrote: »
    You owned him. Lol. Which one is the sarcasm emoti. ??
    Poor Denis never had a chance. Especially after quoting himself. Lol
    Are you blonde like Darcizzle? lol
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    Nancy Sheridan and Dan Ellinor was there and a few law enforcers, punta gordamfishing association a bait guy and a magazine editor but I'm just trolling. Ever time I hit a soft spot you call me a liar. I try and have an educated intelligent thread and you turn it into me. I'm serious here. I know more people agree with me but they won't step up to the plate
  • :grin

    Nancy Sheridan does seahorses, which you have special permit to catch.

    Ellinor is a commercial fishing outreach guy.

    Denise, the two people you mentioned have no involvement in either redfish policy, rule making or inshore recreational fisheries.

    I have no doubt that you know who they are or have talked to them.

    I do doubt that they discussed redfish mortality from tournament fishing other than telling you that they have no involvement and could not help you and referred you to someone who could address it.

    If you want to complain about that issue, I suggest that you address it with the appropriate staff.

    zZP4t0J.jpg

    NkshPEh.jpg

    The culling exception advantages tournament fishing beyond that of recreational fishermen. That is wrong. As the video of dead fish, provided by another recreational fisherman on this forum showed, it resulted in dead fish and a violation of the tournament's permit.

    You see Denise, you did not "hit a soft spot" or incite me to defend charter fishing guides or tournament fishing or recreational fishermen's catch and release practice as you intended with your troll as you told me you were going to do in your earlier PM to me.

    You can also see by that correspondence that FWC committed to employ measures to ensure that the there would be more close monitoring of local tournaments, where their culling exception was exercised.

    Is there anything else I can help you with?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,585 Captain
    Gary
    You are welcome to discuss fisheries conservation issues here, but you need to refrain from making it personal between you and other forum members - enough of the condescension and lack of respect for other forum members' opinions.
    Thanks,
    Tom
  • :nono
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    Can't even discuss an issue on this forum without engaging in this abuse. Now I remember why I left. I certainly am not a liar and I'll take other avenues to address this issue
  • Of course you will , that's why I suggested that you contact the people issuing the exemption permits.

    Always happy to help in your efforts to malign recreational fishermen, Denise.

    I'll let you know the next time I spend some time in Sanibel. Dawn says hello, BTW.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Gary
    You are welcome to discuss fisheries conservation issues here, but you need to refrain from making it personal between you and other forum members - enough of the condescension and lack of respect for other forum members' opinions.
    Thanks,
    Tom
    *Thank you.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    :grin

    Nancy Sheridan does seahorses, which you have special permit to catch.

    Ellinor is a commercial fishing outreach guy.

    Denise, the two people you mentioned have no involvement in either redfish policy, rule making or inshore recreational fisheries.

    I have no doubt that you know who they are or have talked to them.

    I do doubt that they discussed redfish mortality from tournament fishing other than telling you that they have no involvement and could not help you and referred you to someone who could address it.

    If you want to complain about that issue, I suggest that you address it with the appropriate staff.

    zZP4t0J.jpg

    NkshPEh.jpg

    The culling exception advantages tournament fishing beyond that of recreational fishermen. That is wrong. As the video of dead fish, provided by another recreational fisherman on this forum showed, it resulted in dead fish and a violation of the tournament's permit.

    You see Denise, you did not "hit a soft spot" or incite me to defend charter fishing guides or tournament fishing or recreational fishermen's catch and release practice as you intended with your troll as you told me you were going to do in your earlier PM to me.

    You can also see by that correspondence that FWC committed to employ measures to ensure that the there would be more close monitoring of local tournaments, where their culling exception was exercised.

    Is there anything else I can help you with?
    Gary, Kyle is in charge of Commercial Fisheries Outreach and is Dan's boss, Dan also fishes/has fished in the either the FL Pro Redfish or the IFA series(can't remember which), so Dan might have some skin in Denise's claims.

    They are both good peeps.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Fair enough. Show me what "skin he has in the game", Art, as neither is in the redfish program.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    How bout just an opinion then?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • toomertoomer Posts: 343 Deckhand
    Can we return to the original question(s) and see where folks answers/opinions to the question take the thread?

    First, are there really fewer slot sized reds being caught in SW Fla and, if so, is tournament mortality a contributing factor?
  • Redfish is not a commercial fishery, Art. They are a federally protected species, thanks to the efforts of CCA. Opinions voiced by commercial fishermen to their commercial representatives have no value as a basis of policy as you well know.

    There is no evidence of a decline in redfish populations and no concern expressed by staff biologists caused by recreational take much less from catch and release tournament fishing , which has declined with the economy.

    There is evidence of a continuing recovery of the species in the eastern gulf. http://afs.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02755947.2014.920737

    Those increasing populations are coincidental with the limitiation of take to recreational fisheries.

    eY27YDk.jpg

    Evidence shows that eliminating redfish as a commercial fishery improved the population and trends show a continued improvement.

    http://gulfcouncil.org/Beta/GMFMCWeb/downloads/BB%20AUGUST%202010/G%20-%204%20Report%20of%20the%20Red%20Drum%20Working%20Group.pdf

    http://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/fish/red-drum/red-drum-spawning/

    The 2015 stock assessment of Red Drum, Sciaenops ocellatus, in Florida

    by David Chagaris, Behzad Mahmoudi, and Michael Murphy
    Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission
    Florida Fish and Wildlife Research Institute
    100 8th Ave SE St. Petersburg, FL 33701

    Executive Summary
    ◾This report assesses the status of the Red Drum populations found in four regions along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts of Florida. Red drum population dynamics are described for the period 1950-2013 utilizing all available information on catch, effort, relative abundance, and size/age composition.

    ◾Recreational harvest of red rum dropped sharply during 1988-1990 following large harvests of Red Drum in the early 1980s especially in the NE and SW regions. From 1991 to 2008, recreational harvest of Red Drum remained fairly stable in the SW, NW, and NE regions but slowly increased in the SE region. Since 2009 recreational harvest has increased in the NE region but remaining at stable levels in the other three regions. The estimates of number of Red Drum harvested (type A+B1) annually during 2009-2013 averaged 75,094 fish in the NE region, 118,532 fish in the SE region, 159,054 fish in the SW region, and 146,960 fish in the NW region. The number of Red Drum captured and released alive (type B2) by anglers were higher on the Gulf coast than the Atlantic. The estimates of B2 during 2009-2013 averaged 0.8 million fish in the NW region, 1.4 million fish in the SW region, 0.6 million fish in the NE region, and 0.5 million fish in the SE region.

    Lengths of most Red Drum landed by recreational fishers during 2010-2014 were between 44cm (17.3 inches) and 72cm (28inches) total length. During the period 2010-2013, lengths of released fish were mostly larger than 30cm (11.8 inches TL) on the Atlantic coast and 14cm (5.5 inches TL) on the Gulf coast. Discarded fish as large 116 cm (46 inches TL) were common on both coasts.

    Trends in the recreational catch rates (number fish/angler hour) from the MRFSS/MRIP intercept data indicate that there has been a general increase in CPUE of Red Drum in the NE and SE regions since 1990. Catch rates in the SW and NW regions were variable with no strong trend since 1990, however the 2013 estimate in the NW is the highest in the time series.

    ◾The relative abundance indices generated for young-of-the-year Red Drum were variable with no significant trend in all four regions, and high values predicted in the NW and SW regions for 2014, and the NE region during 2013. Estimates of sub-adult indices fluctuated with slight increasing pattern (especially in recent years) in all regions except for the NE region, where sub-adult indices are flat at a relatively low level.

    ◾We developed a Stock Synthesis model (SS3) to assess the status of Red Drum populations in Florida waters. The model was run from 1950 to 2013, accounted for 8 ages (0-7+), 2 selectivity time blocks, and was fit to catch, CPUE indices, length composition, and size-at-age data. Model diagnostics demonstrated convergence on a global solution and no retrospective
    patterns. Furthermore, reference points and stock status predictions were robust across a range of steepness values.

    http://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/stock-assessments/finfish/red-drum-2015/

    There is no evidence or concern expressed by FWC in the strictly recreational fishery to warrant any further rulemaking. There are efforts to increase the recreational take. CCA and FGA oppose them.


    There is evidence of our friend here resurrecting a 6 year old issue first reported by members of the Southwest forum and which the FWC reacted to as evidenced above, as a red herring.

    These anti-recreational fishing boogeymen surface from time to time here (the accusations of the unfairness of the net ban as an example) on FS by recalcitrant commercial fishermen bitter at the loss of their income which created the need for its sector closure.

    The last part is my opinion based on evidence we all can see right here. :wink
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Are you blonde like Darcizzle? lol
    Go away troll.
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • toomertoomer Posts: 343 Deckhand
    Book, chapter, verse. Thank you.
  • :wink
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
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