So - they want to kill the guy who killed the lion!

mindyabiness

Gardawg wrote: »

LOL ... and you were chiding others for sloppy research

it's a survival thing ... male lions are kicked out of prides once they mature ... lions who have brothers group together until they can form a pride ... a lion without a brother will partner with another lion who has no brother in order to survive ...

nothing more than the buddy system used in combat ... no buddy = death

Obviously he is an expert...his middle name is "kat"....bow to the kat, dude!

This might be true.... but check with the experts before you believe it, or re-post it. It adds some perspective....

Hunters, mostly Britons and Americans, kill an estimated 1,000 lions on South African ranches annually, the Economist reported in May.

Sooo.... If you go on a Safari....obey the rules, and don't kill the one with a name.....

MRichardson

He's a dentist.

He'll kill himself soon enough.

joekat46

Middle name is actually Joseph but whatever. Who is the forum "lion expert"? Credentials? PHD in lion? The real perspective in this "beloved Cecil" thread is that he was a lion, living in a country that allows the hunting of lions, and all the hoopla regarding his demise is pretty silly. Still appears to me (the non lion expert) this "band of brothers" is just a group of males waiting their turn to become the new "Cecil" - oops - I meant the "beloved Cecil". Where is Marlin Perkins when we need him?:banana. His sidekick "Jim" will do in a pinch.

Yes - if you go on safari - obey the rules - and kill an unnamed non-beloved lion Zimbabwe cashes the check and the world continues to turn.

MRichardson

You'd have to be an idiot to think that your spin on this story
describes it at all.

joekat46

I just did a post in the Sports Section re: Rays if anyone else wants to jump on my butt. I know it doesn't describe it all - please fill in the blanks for all of us. Always good to get more opinions on poor Cecil's tragic "murder". When all is said and done Zimbabwe will decide they really like that 45 million coming into the economy. Wanna bet on how this has played out a year or so from now?? My guess - the hunts will be more expensive, a Zimbabwe rep will accompany the hunts, bows may be a no no.
AND the evil dentist will not be extradited unless it would play into Hillary's campaign if she needs the PETA vote.

Gardawg

joekat46 wrote: »

AND the evil dentist will not be extradited unless it would play into Hillary's campaign if she needs the PETA vote.

LOL ... yeah, she'll have a real difficulty prying the PETA vote away from the righties ...

He will be extradited and have to pay a large fine before he can return home ... maybe he will be allowed to just pay the fine as part of a plea bargain

joekat46

Right there - all the LWNJs, PETA, etc will always vote "D". It is just their nature, kinda like "beloved Cecils" nature was to kill and eat stuff. I'm remembering Marlin and Jim usually reported the big dominate males lived off their ladies kills however. That Chicago reference seems to keep popping back into mind for some reason:) Get back with me on "extradition day" will you?

joekat46

Just got results from a search on a more "hunter friendly" web site (FS should be ashamed). Of the African Big 5 (look them up) lion is the most expensive to take. The "beloved Cecil" should be proud. He was about 5x the cost of a Cape Buffalo. It is still raining so I can play this all day.

jad1097

joekat46 wrote: »

Just got results from a search on a more "hunter friendly" web site (FS should be ashamed). Of the African Big 5 (look them up) lion is the most expensive to take. The "beloved Cecil" should be proud. He was about 5x the cost of a Cape Buffalo. It is still raining so I can play this all day.

Www.Tndeer.com ?

Gardawg

got it ...

the righties approve of poaching

no surprise there ... they're for shooting anything from Africa

Cyclist

Many trophy hunters are morally bankrupt ********.......looking to compensate some mental or physical deficiency.

joekat46

Cyclist wrote: »

Many trophy hunters are morally bankrupt ********.......looking to compensate some mental or physical deficiency.

Straight out of the PETA hand book there Peter. The dentist had the money, he spent it, there you go. I'm now so mad I'm going to make a sign saying, "Justice for Cecil" and loot something. You guys are a hoot. Doesn't PETA have their own forum?

Ooops again - the sign will read "Justice for Beloved Cecil"

Still raining

MRichardson

Zimbabwe will be able to continue to enjoy tourist dollars derived from
big game hunting and still be able to enforce their anti-poaching laws without any
fallout from this.

This wasn't hunting.

Cyclist

joekat46 wrote: »

Straight out of the PETA hand book there Peter. The dentist had the money, he spent it, there you go. I'm now so mad I'm going to make a sign saying, "Justice for Cecil" and loot something. You guys are a hoot. Doesn't PETA have their own forum?

Ooops again - the sign will read "Justice for Beloved Cecil"

Still raining

In my case PETA stands for "Peter Eats Tasty Animals" that he shoots with dangerous archery equipment and longguns.

joekat46

Baiting the big cats is an accepted way to take both Lions and Leopards. The question here is the boundary of the protected area and the hunt area. If the dentist knew what was going on, and it was illegal (KEY QUESTION), then shame on him. Zimbabwe will do what is best for Zimbabwe. Extraditing an American hunter may not be the wisest choice if they want to keep the $$$$$ rolling in. The fallout has already occurred. I've put my African hunt on hold:cry as I'm sure many other of the idle rich have also.

JUSTICE FOR THE BELOVED CECIL:rotflmao

fins4me

1-Probably the people most upset with this are those folks in Africa who depend on the hunting industry.

2-It is sad and amazing how we as a nation are so easily distracted by something "shiny".

3-There are lions and other large animals hunted every day all across Africa. It is foolish to make such a big deal out of this event.

4-Contrary to the narrative being forced down the US news consumers gullet,,, Lions are not endangered.

I enjoy hunting. I do not consider this style of hunting to be sporting. Baiting a lion or any other animal into the open, shooting it with a less than ideal weapon from the back of a truck and following professional guides across the plains as they do all of the work and track the animal is NOT hunting (my opinion only).

Mister-Jr

joekat46 wrote: »

Baiting the big cats is an accepted way to take both Lions and Leopards. The question here is the boundary of the protected area and the hunt area. If the dentist knew what was going on, and it was illegal (KEY QUESTION), then shame on him. Zimbabwe will do what is best for Zimbabwe. Extraditing an American hunter may not be the wisest choice if they want to keep the $$$$$ rolling in. The fallout has already occurred. I've put my African hunt on hold:cry as I'm sure many other of the idle rich have also.

JUSTICE FOR THE BELOVED CECIL:rotflmao

Baiting and hunting in the same paragraph. Not related.

gandrfab

Triple Threat 33T wrote: »

No need to lash out at me just because you're scared Matt.

I missed you picking on me.

joekat46

Mister-Jr wrote: »

Baiting and hunting in the same paragraph. Not related.

JUSTICE FOR THE BELOVED CECIL. Doesn't matter it is now and has always been an accepted way to hunt the big cats. If you don't approve then cancel your African big game hunt. Rain has stopped. The Twins and Blue Jays are live on MLB. Have you studied the difference between a compound bow and a cross bow? Let me know tomorrow. I'm done for today. What a "sportsman" forum. :chill always a great way to spend a rainy afternoon. Glad someone said "they are not endangered". Since I have already been declared a non-expert I wasn't going to mention that bit of trivia.:blowkiss:blowkiss

Cyclist

fins4me wrote: »

1-Probably the people most upset with this are those folks in Africa who depend on the hunting industry.

2-It is sad and amazing how we as a nation are so easily distracted by something "shiny".

3-There are lions and other large animals hunted every day all across Africa. It is foolish to make such a big deal out of this event.

4-Contrary to the narrative being forced down the US news consumers gullet,,, Lions are not endangered.

I enjoy hunting. I do not consider this style of hunting to be sporting. Baiting a lion or any other animal into the open, shooting it with a less than ideal weapon from the back of a truck and following professional guides across the plains as they do all of the work and track the animal is NOT hunting (my opinion only).

African Lion Populations Drop 42 Percent in Past 21 Years
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/african-lion-populations-drop-42-percent-in-past-21-years/
Outside of those four nations, things aren’t as good. Lion populations have fallen in most other countries, with an average decline of 60 percent. The worst hit has been the West African population of lions, which has now been classified as critically endangered. A study published last year found that only about 400 lions remained in the 17 nations of West Africa.

mindyabiness

Cyclist wrote: »

Many trophy hunters are morally bankrupt ********.......looking to compensate some mental or physical deficiency.

Post this in the Deer hunting forum....will you? I would like to see what happens, that would be good for another rainy weekend..
You can thank me for not adding to my signature line...cool:

Me thinks that Charity Charamba knows that Mr Palmer will go another 100k to clear his name and be able to return to kill more.
And at this point...I'm sure that Walter is trying to figure out what this is going to cost him and he just wants it over.
Money will fix this and what ever Mr. Palmer has to pay......he deserves it.

mindyabiness

It occurs to me that the remaining part of the slain beast (reportedly his head), is most likely still in Africa. I'm not sure but, that usually gets cured and shipped later. I have heard that there is lots of additional revenue generated with taxes and fees for the transfer. So Zimbabwe probably has the head and could hold it hostage. This head is very important to Walter....very, very, important. This is what got him to travel to the other side of the world and spend 50K for the experience.

Cyclist

mindyabiness wrote: »

Post this in the Deer hunting forum....will you? I would like to see what happens, that would be good for another rainy weekend..
You can thank me for not adding to my signature line...cool:

Me thinks that Charity Charamba knows that Mr Palmer will go another 100k to clear his name and be able to return to kill more.
And at this point...I'm sure that Walter is trying to figure out what this is going to cost him and he just wants it over.
Money will fix this and what ever Mr. Palmer has to pay......he deserves it.

I think that is different. I would shoot a trophy deer as I would eat it. Probably do a Euro mount as well. Deer are hooved pests.

I don't think I would eat a lion. They are declining in population in most areas, and their outlook is not great in most as well.

I will restate in that shooting something with no plans to eat it, only to hang on a wall is morally bankrupt.

mindyabiness

I will restate in that shooting something with no plans to eat it, only to hang on a wall is morally bankrupt.

I get that....I don't necessarily agree however. I'm of the opinion that when the passion for recognition becomes greater, than the passion for the hunt....something is definitely wrong.
I think hunting a predator (another hunter), without using food as bait, makes you about as good a hunter as there is....it's hunting at it's hardest, most difficult, and most rewarding...as long as it is sustainable, hunting a threatened species or a protected one is bad practice
This is where it starts to get off topic so I'll make it brief......
Deer hunting and deer farming for antlers is way past the point of hunting now. It's time we call out and recognize those for how they took the deer not just if and how big the horns are. If you can be successful without planting, baiting or cameras...... now your hunting, not just harvesting.

Gardawg

fins4me wrote: »

I enjoy hunting. I do not consider this style of hunting to be sporting. Baiting a lion or any other animal into the open, shooting it with a less than ideal weapon from the back of a truck and following professional guides across the plains as they do all of the work and track the animal is NOT hunting (my opinion only).

Hunting is fine with me. Even trophy hunting. ALL ethical hunting is fine with me.
It's the poaching that gets me. Poaching for food is one thing but poaching for nothing but a trophy is sick.


“If the purpose of hunting is only to kill an

animal, then the process is moot; we contain the

technological ability to kill all animals.”

–Allen Morris Jones

The phrase “fair chase” has a very specific meaning in the hunting world. The Boone and Crockett Club defines it as “the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big-game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.” This means fair-chase hunters pursue their quarry on foot; hone their skills so they make quick, clean kills; and obey the law.

Jim Posewitz, the founder of Orion, The Hunter’s Institute, writes (in Beyond Fair Chase) that fair chase “addresses the balance between the hunter and the hunted. It is a balance that allows hunters to occasionally succeed while animals generally avoid being taken.” The principle of “fair chase” is revered by ethical sportsmen and a cornerstone of the American hunting heritage.

http://http://

good read in that link ...

MRichardson

Plus he attempted to take it in an inhumane way.

ANUMBER1

I lived vicariously thru his books as a young man.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._A._Hunter
I don't think much went to waste in the bush back then.

fins4me

mississippi mac

Gardawg wrote: »

Hunting is fine with me. Even trophy hunting. ALL ethical hunting is fine with me.
It's the poaching that gets me. Poaching for food is one thing but poaching for nothing but a trophy is sick.




The phrase “fair chase” has a very specific meaning in the hunting world. The Boone and Crockett Club defines it as “the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big-game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.” This means fair-chase hunters pursue their quarry on foot; hone their skills so they make quick, clean kills; and obey the law.

.



good read in that link ...

I suggest "shooting" any endangered species for a trophy should be done with a DSLR and just a 100mm lens for the "head shot"....
if you survive to print it, you have something to brag about....

I have a friend who shoots for nat-geo and has been on some shoots in Africa....
he told me that even with a 400mm lens he felt "uncomfortably close" to large predators....

Gardawg

mississippi mac wrote: »

I suggest "shooting" any endangered species for a trophy should be done with a DSLR and just a 100mm lens for the "head shot"....
if you survive to print it, you have something to brag about....

I have a friend who shoots for nat-geo and has been on some shoots in Africa....
he told me that even with a 400mm lens he felt "uncomfortably close" to large predators....

Killing an endangered species would not be ethical.

I've grown tired of violence ... cameras are what I shoot with now ...