Answer for the Kayak owners about HMS

[email protected] Special

On the other thread, the issue of HMS permits for Kayaks came up.

Here is the response from Margo at HMS

Hi Ron,


Thanks for the email. Atlantic federal HMS fishing permits are vessel permits and kayaks are vessels so yes, to fish for HMS from a kayak, the kayak needs to be permitted. Kayaks would need to have either a state or USGC registration number to get an HMS permit on the website - that is possible and we have issued permits to registered kayaks so the process is proven. The HMS regulation citations for permitting and reporting of sailfish at 50 CFR 635.4 and 645.5(c)(2), respectively, would apply. Please let me know if you have additional questions. Thanks and I hope you have a good weekend. Margo

Flight Risk

That should put to rest any questions about HMS permitting of Kayaks (Vessels) - now, let's see how many yakkers will be standing in line at the DMV to get FL numbers for their boats...
Thanks Ron for going the extra mile.

century7

Thanks for the info as this is good to know. I understand the need for a vessel registration for the hms because they need to associate to a specific kayak. It is just such a burden to do that plus the cost associated is just a pain. Come to think of it I do not think I have ever seen Florida registration numbers on a kayak. Will the state even allow you to register a kayak?

Kevinwwings2

I hate to say it, but it is simple. I was fishing for Mahi and a Sail took the bait, ticket the Sail for biting the wrong bait.

[email protected] Special

Kevinwwings2 wrote: »

I hate to say it, but it is simple. I was fishing for Mahi and a Sail took the bait, ticket the Sail for biting the wrong bait.

Probably easier than a $20 permit that you can get online!

Shoeless

Thanks for clearing it up Ron. I appreciate the effort for finding the facts surrounding the situation instead of simply going back and fourth on what everyone thinks is proper.

I know my FL fishing license is about $24 a year having a Veterans Gold Card for everything. $20 on a HMS permit is a drop in the bucket to be totally legal. Especially compared to the new Shimano Torsa I just got, don't tell the wife how much that thing cost :grin

FLATS BROKE

Good info. Thanks Ron. I've never seen a registered kayak, do you think the State will allow you to register one?

SaltLife89

Thanks for the info. about the HMS permit. Since we are discussing kayaking offshore what are the necessities for an offshore trip? I own a Hobie outfitter and I am really looking to make sure I fit it with the equipment and rod setup that will be needed, so any suggestions or comments would really be appreciated. Plan on getting a finder (not sure which one yet) and figuring out a way to fit a live well on the kayak (hobbies live well does not fit my yak so any comments about this would be a lot of help). Thanks for any comments in advance.

schmaltz~herring

Ron:
Heard you had a HAPPY DAY Sportfishing today.:cool

JIMinPB

SaltLife89 wrote: »

and figuring out a way to fit a live well on the kayak (hobbies live well does not fit my yak so any comments about this would be a lot of help). Thanks for any comments in advance.

I went to Walmart & found a large plastic jar in the housewares section that fits in my yak pretty well. I drilled a 1/4" hole in the top for an air hose, & wrapped a tie wrap around it to secure a Baby Bubbles aspirator that runs on 2 AA batteries. It will keep about 3 dozen shrimp or a half dozen mullet frisky for the better part of a day. When the critters start looking tired, I change the water.

I also have a fish basket that I hang over the side. It will keep lots of live bait in good shape for a looong time. Unfortunately, I need to pull it out of the water when I paddle. My bubbler jar (described above) will keep a dozen & a half mullet alive long enough to let me paddle a mile or two, then I need to stop & let the critters run around in the basket for a while to freshen up.

This is a low budget solution for someone that only goes yak fishing occasionally. If the yak were my main mode of getting out on the water, I would have built a bait well with a constant loss circulating system.

I have a Lorance Elite 3x depth finder that I use in my yak. I run it off of a small sealed lead acid battery that I recharge when I get back to shore. The unit draws about 3/4 of an amp. You need to figure the amp-hour capacity of the battery based on how long you want it to last. I mounted the transducer on some 3/4" PVC pipe that I attach to the yak with bungee cords. This lets the transducer kick up when I run ashore. This unit works very well for me. I have not deep-6ed it yet. I bought the extended warranty when I got it because I expect that this will happen eventually.

If you are thinking about taking a yak offshore, your primary concern should probably be safety equipment & the ability to communicate if you find yourself in trouble. Getting a cramp while kayaking alone offshore is a life threatening situation.

tarpon9wt

FLATS BROKE wrote: »

Good info. Thanks Ron. I've never seen a registered kayak, do you think the State will allow you to register one?

My kayak, an Ocean Kayak Torque is FL registered because it has a trolling motor. Any vessel in FL that has a motor, regardless of length, needs to be registered. I display it on my $8.99 HD crate, not a Dean Milk crate; don't want to be arrested like that poor homeless guys a few weeks ago. The decal wouldn't stick well to the polyethylene.

JIMinPB

tarpon9wt wrote: »

I display it on my $8.99 HD crate

I seem to remember that the rules say that you need to post the numbers on both sides of the bow & the sticker on the port side, next to the numbers. Are the rules somehow different for kayaks?

FLATS BROKE

You are using a motor, of course you need to get it registered! But no one can answer my question about registering a kayak with the state of FL ,without a motor. When you put a motor on a kayak, it's no longer a kayak and defeats the purpose of the sport IMO. No registration = no permit.

KFO

Question 1: Who is Margo? Has anyone garnered an appropriate response from FWC on this matter?

Question 2: Are kayaks vessels? Serious question. For many areas of the law they have been left in the gray area and in some cases declared not vessels.

Question 3: If the State does not require a kayak to be registered, (a government agency which we all know ticket/charge/fine everything they possibly can) then how does the backwards method of needing a HMS which means needing to register make sense? What I mean is, if we had to register kayaks, and registered vessels needed HMS permits, that makes total sense. But even the State says kayaks do not need to be registered. Therefore it's confusing to me that well they don't need to be registered but if you want to fish well yea go ahead. Seems very backwards.

Also please don't take this the wrong way and I want to keep this thread civil but I am more weary of accepting answers from biased sources. What I mean is I would prefer a third party mediator over someone that (clearly) had a strong opinion on the matter. That goes for either side of the argument. But it doesn't surprise me Ron got the answer he wanted.

For what it's worth I am not opposed to the idea of needing an HMS permit as that is funding in regards to a fishery, but I am vehemently opposed to registering a kayak. That defeats half the purpose of the sport. We are dudes floating around on non-motorized 10ft pieces of plastic.

MGD

KFO wrote: »

For what it's worth I am not opposed to the idea of needing an HMS permit as that is funding in regards to a fishery, but I am vehemently opposed to registering a kayak. That defeats half the purpose of the sport. We are dudes floating around on non-motorized 10ft pieces of plastic.

Enlighten me.....Why does registering a kayak defeat half the purpose of a kayak?

FLATS BROKE

Ron has no answer because, there is no answer. Period. A kayak cannot be registered as a vessel unless it has a motor. Therefore, you are not required to obtain a HMS permit. :shrug

summer daze

FLATS BROKE wrote: »

Good info. Thanks Ron. I've never seen a registered kayak, do you think the State will allow you to register one?

The state will let you do anything that they can charge you a fee to do, I'm sure !!

FLATS BROKE

summer daze wrote: »

The state will let you do anything that they can charge you a fee to do, I'm sure !!

Absolutely, and I agree. But it's NOT a requirement.

century7

I believe the only reason you need to register the vessel is because the hms needs to be tied to a specific vessal. if the hms was like a Florida fishing permit it would not be an issue. Otherwise people would print one out for a kayak and use it on other boats. Same issue is if you fish from a boat club you can not get an hms as you are always on different boats

KFO

century7 wrote: »

I believe the only reason you need to register the vessel is because the hms needs to be tied to a specific vessal. if the hms was like a Florida fishing permit it would not be an issue. Otherwise people would print one out for a kayak and use it on other boats. Same issue is if you fish from a boat club you can not get an hms as you are always on different boats

This is a good explanation and makes sense. Thank you.

KFO

MGD wrote: »

Enlighten me.....Why does registering a kayak defeat half the purpose of a kayak?

Ha, I was getting all keyboard passionate and speaking in exaggerated terms, but the need to register kayaks does seem extreme. 10ft piece of floating plastic. Next would be paddle boards and then surf boards.

The beauty of kayak fishing (that a lot miss in this forum) is the lax attitude. No trailer, no motor, hardly any maintenance. No planning. I woke up at 9 yesterday and decided I wanted to paddle out. 15 minutes later I was paddling off the beach in Boyton. Jumped a nice cow and slammed flag yellow tails. I've owned (and sold) several boats in my day but I will always have a kayak. We're not a bunch of poor googans without a clue. We're just nuts and enjoy "Old man and the Sea" style fishing.