Trapping on public land

mossyhorn9mossyhorn9 Posts: 321 Deckhand
Why does the state pay trappers to come on public land to trap hogs? I don't get it. There are literally thousands of people that would be more than happy to hunt hogs on these lands for FREE or even pay a small fee to do it and yet the state prefers to pay someone else to do it. Am I missing something??? :huh:shrug
You can blame it on my rebel raisin'...
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Replies

  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,981 Admiral
    You are talking about the government, right?
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Recreational hunting isn't an effective means of hog control by itself.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    Recreational hunting isn't an effective means of hog control by itself.

    Very true. But there are thousands of acres that COULD be opened to recreational hog hunting that are presently closed to ALL hunting. It is on these lands where IFAS trappers are being employed that the state could save some money since the trappers are not really doing much in the way of reducing the hog populations. Most of the trappers are not running dogs. They are setting traps and shooting some of these hogs at night. Very low success rates there once the hogs learn the game and adapt to it. At lease with open recreational hunts, there are more opportunities to kill these hogs and erradicate them from a location. St. Marks NWR did this back in the 80's and wiped out nearly 800 swine in one week. Dinner Island had an open hog hunt and it knocked down their population pretty well too.

    If the state is going to treat hogs as an invasive, then stick to it and do what you can to wipe them out by all means possible. If they want to treat hogs as a game animal, then cut out the trappers and all the other nonsense and manage them as a game animal they way we do deer, turkey and other species. The biggest problem I see here is the lack of consistency on the state's part and their inability to crap or get off the pot.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Or, open the still hunt areas that are too thick to hunt still hunting and let dogs in for a few weeks. IE: Corbitt where a min shoulder height and bag limit apply
  • wilburzwilburz Posts: 985 Officer
    yah right. Its called a still hunt area for a reason, so 1,000 hunters don't show up with 10 dogs a piece and run every living mammal out of the area. no thanks. the still hunt area is not over run with pigs bro. If you are not having any success running your dogs in the buggie area maybe you should trade them in for a few ladder stands that you can put up in the still hunt area. just my suggestion.

    Happiness is a belt fed weapon!

  • mossyhorn9mossyhorn9 Posts: 321 Deckhand
    If you ask me the trappers should be paying the state anyways since they are taking the hogs and selling them to high fence operations and making even more money off of them. Maybe someone is getting their pocket lined...
    You can blame it on my rebel raisin'...
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    Recreational hunting isn't an effective means of hog control by itself.

    That is dead wrong. I guarantee me and a couple of my friends could eradicate hogs faster than any trapper ever could. Prove me wrong.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    I had trapping rights on a local piece here in Brooksville on state forest property. The rules they had set made it not worth even trying.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    huntmstr wrote: »
    Very true. But there are thousands of acres that COULD be opened to recreational hog hunting that are presently closed to ALL hunting. It is on these lands where IFAS trappers are being employed that the state could save some money since the trappers are not really doing much in the way of reducing the hog populations. Most of the trappers are not running dogs. They are setting traps and shooting some of these hogs at night. Very low success rates there once the hogs learn the game and adapt to it. At lease with open recreational hunts, there are more opportunities to kill these hogs and erradicate them from a location. St. Marks NWR did this back in the 80's and wiped out nearly 800 swine in one week. Dinner Island had an open hog hunt and it knocked down their population pretty well too.

    If the state is going to treat hogs as an invasive, then stick to it and do what you can to wipe them out by all means possible. If they want to treat hogs as a game animal, then cut out the trappers and all the other nonsense and manage them as a game animal they way we do deer, turkey and other species. The biggest problem I see here is the lack of consistency on the state's part and their inability to crap or get off the pot.
    Could not have been said better.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    wilburz wrote: »
    yah right. Its called a still hunt area for a reason, so 1,000 hunters don't show up with 10 dogs a piece and run every living mammal out of the area. no thanks. the still hunt area is not over run with pigs bro. If you are not having any success running your dogs in the buggie area maybe you should trade them in for a few ladder stands that you can put up in the still hunt area. just my suggestion.
    Why do you think that dogs run every animal off of a piece or property? The best still hunting I've ever had in Florida has been on dog hunting clubs.I'm going to refrain from a smart *** comment in hopes of educating you and any others who believe this.
  • dukhuntr1991dukhuntr1991 Posts: 307 Deckhand
    Just a guess. But I would assume it's more of a liability issue. Many "trappers" would gladly do it for free but I'm sure they are required to hold some kind of substantial liability insurance. I'm guessing their payment is more or less to cover cost of their insurance. I'm sure they're still making a few bucks off selling them to high fence Yankee shoots, but I doubt they're getting rich off it. Most places only pay about 50 bucks a head for hogs over 50 lbs.
  • dukhuntr1991dukhuntr1991 Posts: 307 Deckhand
    But like chuck said, if they really wanted them gone it wouldn't be as hard as they make it sound. Open it to dog hunting for a few weeks and I promise it would run more of them out, permanently then setting a few traps will ever do.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,521 AG
    Skunk Ape wrote: »
    I had trapping rights on a local piece here in Brooksville on state forest property. The rules they had set made it not worth even trying.
    This^^ and it's gotten worse.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    Just a guess. But I would assume it's more of a liability issue. Many "trappers" would gladly do it for free but I'm sure they are required to hold some kind of substantial liability insurance. I'm guessing their payment is more or less to cover cost of their insurance. I'm sure they're still making a few bucks off selling them to high fence Yankee shoots, but I doubt they're getting rich off it. Most places only pay about 50 bucks a head for hogs over 50 lbs.

    Depends on the trapper and how they're contracted and by which agency. Most of the IFAS trappers get an annual contract that amounts to somewhere in the $30-$40k range. They are supposed to kill the hogs and dispose of them. The other trappers, which are mostly hog doggers who are given a contract with SWFWMD, are given the right to trap in specific areas and told when they can trap. They do not get paid at all, but are allowed to remove the hogs and sell them with the appropriate USDA endorsements.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • gritsnhuntin1gritsnhuntin1 Posts: 1,041 Officer
    Skunk Ape wrote: »
    Why do you think that dogs run every animal off of a piece or property? The best still hunting I've ever had in Florida has been on dog hunting clubs.I'm going to refrain from a smart *** comment in hopes of educating you and any others who believe this.

    Corbett gets a ton of "dog hunters" that have no clue on how to actually use them to hunt game. It seems like a lot of folks just bring any dog they can find and turn them loose and see what happens. I think that is what he was referring to.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    Corbett gets a ton of "dog hunters" that have no clue on how to actually use them to hunt game. It seems like a lot of folks just bring any dog they can find and turn them loose and see what happens. I think that is what he was referring to.
    I've never set foot in Corbett and know nothing about it. He said that dog hunting a still hunt area will run all of the game out, that is just not true. Most smart dog hunters know that when they run a buck off of a property they can find his track coming back on the property the next morning. All we want is land to run our dogs, it's a win, win for everybody. Hogs are kept in check and we have a place to run our dogs. This shouldn't happen opening morning of deer season or turkey season, but my God. There's millions of acres of unhunted state land that that is infested with hogs they could open up for us.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Skunk Ape wrote: »
    That is dead wrong. I guarantee me and a couple of my friends could eradicate hogs faster than any trapper ever could. Prove me wrong.

    I guarantee you that neither a trapper nor you and your friends can eradicate hogs. Make a dent...... maybe with enough effort. Eradicate..... :Spittingcoffee It takes using every tool available to make a real difference.

    Recreational hunting should be part of the hog management strategy where it can be, but it alone can't make a significant enough difference.
  • Captjohn5150Captjohn5150 Posts: 1,698 Captain
    The way things are going, someone in the state is going to figure out a way to make some more tax/cash via hunting and start to manage these hogs like a true game animal.....turn the wma's into hog hell hunting....get the population up and keep them up, size restrictions on them ect....grow them big.....charge big bucks for opening weekend, manage them as trophy hunts like the deer....I can see it now....the tosohatchee wild hell hog hunt.....24 inches at the shoulder minimum.....boars have to have 3 1/2 inch cutters....no dogs, just stalk and walk.....could you think of the cash flow, the carnage.....30,000 hogs, just 90 hunters......
    Oh anyone know anything on the merit island hog hunt yet......it's going to be just like the above fantasy story....except true.....
    For the love of all outdoors recreational activities....what my spelling is off, that will learn ya. Pimping ain't easy unless u went to FSU, its a BS course.
    What do u get when you can connect the dots, color inside the lines, and get your release papers.....sentence served, times up at Felon sentenced university.
    Floridas first woman's college.
    The only difference between FSU and all the other colleges are other colleges accept you into the university's. At FSU you are taken into custody.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    I guarantee you that neither a trapper nor you and your friends can eradicate hogs. Make a dent...... maybe with enough effort. Eradicate..... :Spittingcoffee It takes using every tool available to make a real difference.

    Recreational hunting should be part of the hog management strategy where it can be, but it alone can't make a significant enough difference.
    You are sadly mistaken, eradicating all hogs would be impossible, I would bet a years salary that we could out kill anyone using hounds against hog traps. I doubt you've ever seen a well trained pack of Plotts and Walkers at work with some experienced handlers. A dog is the best tool in killing hogs, period. Do you work for the FWC?
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    Skunk, Walker Dog has seen more good hog hounds work than you know.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    huntmstr wrote: »
    Skunk, Walker Dog has seen more good hog hounds work than you know.
    Then he's being silly saying dogs won't work on thinning hogs out. I've seen it and done it.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Skunk Ape wrote: »
    Then he's being silly saying dogs won't work on thinning hogs out. I've seen it and done it.

    Not being silly. Maybe just not being understood.

    I never said dogs can't be effective in thinning hogs out. I've known people that would catch a gooseneck trailer load in a single night. To catch high numbers like that, it takes a lot of hard work, a lot of wear and tear and gas, a lot of time, and the recreation wears off after about the first hour. Did they thin them out some? Sure. Did the eradicate them? Not even close.

    Suppose you return to the same property each time you hunt and you hunt most days/nights. After many hunts with progressively lower catch rates, you finally caught the very last hog on a particular property. How long do you think the number is going to stay at zero before the hogs on the property next door start backfilling the hole you finally finished digging?
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    I guess I misunderstood you when you said recreational hunting won't work. To me, running my dogs is recreation. Opening up areas for hog dog hunting is great, I appreciate that and take full advantage of it when I can. Keeping all the roads closed to hunters to me does not make any sense, especially when trying to get to a bayed dog that's over a mile off of the grade. Opening up closed lands to hunters, especially for hunting an unwanted animals like hogs seems to make a lot of sense to me. Dog hunting is the single most effective way to control them.
  • 22donk22donk Posts: 425 Deckhand
    I do not have dogs to run, but I love pig hunting. I would be excited to see some WMAs that hold a summer season. Maybe a week of archery, then gun, then dogs. I don't know, just a thought. Would give us state land outcasts something to do in July. I know some places are open year round for hogs ie. Kissimmee Chain of Lakes, but not all of us have access to airboats to get out there.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    For some its recreation no doubt. My original point was that those who say "why are they trapping when Joe Lunchbucket wants to hunt them" are wrong when they think that trapping is a bad thing. And they are wrong when they think that Joe Lunchbucket and his pals are going to shoot/catch enough by themselves to get done what needs to be done. They should be doing all of it that the property can reasonably accommodate, if they want to get hogs down to "manageable" numbers.
  • mossyhorn9mossyhorn9 Posts: 321 Deckhand
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    For some its recreation no doubt. My original point was that those who say "why are they trapping when Joe Lunchbucket wants to hunt them" are wrong when they think that trapping is a bad thing. And they are wrong when they think that Joe Lunchbucket and his pals are going to shoot/catch enough by themselves to get done what needs to be done. They should be doing all of it that the property can reasonably accommodate, if they want to get hogs down to "manageable" numbers.

    My point was that I don't understand why the government is PAYING for someone to do something that it's tax paying citizens would gladly do for free.
    You can blame it on my rebel raisin'...
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Because they are doing a job that needs to be done and it cost them less to do it on a contract basis than with paid staff and owned equipment. Offer to do it for them for less and I'm sure they'd be glad to consider your proposal when the contract is up. Most of the contracts are awarded on a bid basis, I believe.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    Because they are doing a job that needs to be done and it cost them less to do it on a contract basis than with paid staff and owned equipment. Offer to do it for them for less and I'm sure they'd be glad to consider your proposal when the contract is up. Most of the contracts are awarded on a bid basis, I believe.

    You never answered when I asked if you worked for FWC?
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Depends on the ecology (extent of wetlands, etc.) of the area in question as to how effective dogs and hunting can be. Seems the trappers are going with large 1/4 acre enclosures monitored by cameras to be super effective. Expensive and time consuming and effective.

    Hunting hogs is higher on my personal hunting totem than deer. Still hunting hogs is a blast. But not super effective on reducing the population.
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