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Tiger shark and land bird project

johnboy114johnboy114 Posts: 32 Greenhorn
Check this out. This is one of my good buddies research project. He has been finding land birds in the stomachs of tiger sharks here on the gulf coast. Take a look at it.
http://experiment.com/tigersharks

Replies

  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    johnboy114 wrote: »
    Check this out. This is one of my good buddies research project. He has been finding land birds in the stomachs of tiger sharks here on the gulf coast. Take a look at it.
    http://experiment.com/tigersharks

    OMG!! You mean sharks eat the thousands of birds that fall into the sea during their fall and spring migrations? Ever been on a 3-6 week offshore commercial trip? Ever seen the number of birds that just don't make it? In the late winter-early spring (about this time of year or earlier), the birds take off from Mexico (or whereever) with a southeaster that is sucking up into a new cold front (and that southeaster winds up dumping a ton of snow on Buffalo NY), but they don't make it before the norther hits, and it just knocks them right out of the sky.

    They crash land on the boats all the time - if there is a boat out there to land on. Then they die, if the cattle egrets on the boat don't catch them first.

    Did you know tiger sharks migrate thousands of miles to go eat fledgling boobies and albatrosses in the Pacific.

    How much did this scientist get paid to describe the obvious?
  • LightfootLightfoot Posts: 22 Greenhorn
    "Originally Pondered by Thousands411"

    Check this out. This is one of the forum’s constant antagonists. He has been replying with useless and condescending remarks to other peoples' comments here in the entire Southeast. Take a moment to read it. www.whocareswhatyouthink.com



    What BubbaII meant to say...

    OMG!! You mean that the thousands of people that post on here are not as smart as me? Ever posted on a forum? Ever seen the guy who knows more than anybody? In the late winter-early spring, summer, fall, days that end in “Y” (about everyday), this guy goes on-line to the Florida Sportsman (or where ever) huffing and puffing up like a Nor’easter (and that Nor’easter just blows and blows, dumping a load of something on everybody’s post), but nobody really wants to hear it and we can’t just knock him off of the page (but don’t we wish we could).

    He crashes everybody’s thread, if there is a thread to read. Then we wish the cattle egrets would dump on him.

    Did you know that people don’t like someone that goes the extra ten thousand miles to try and belittle their post?

    How much do you get out of being a ****?
  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 11,619 AG
    :applause
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    Lightfoot wrote: »
    "Originally Pondered by Thousands411"

    Check this out. This is one of the forum’s constant antagonists. He has been replying with useless and condescending remarks to other peoples' comments here in the entire Southeast. Take a moment to read it. www.whocareswhatyouthink.com



    What BubbaII meant to say...

    OMG!! You mean that the thousands of people that post on here are not as smart as me? Ever posted on a forum? Ever seen the guy who knows more than anybody? In the late winter-early spring, summer, fall, days that end in “Y” (about everyday), this guy goes on-line to the Florida Sportsman (or where ever) huffing and puffing up like a Nor’easter (and that Nor’easter just blows and blows, dumping a load of something on everybody’s post), but nobody really wants to hear it and we can’t just knock him off of the page (but don’t we wish we could).

    He crashes everybody’s thread, if there is a thread to read. Then we wish the cattle egrets would dump on him.

    Did you know that people don’t like someone that goes the extra ten thousand miles to try and belittle their post?

    How much do you get out of being a ****?
    Personal attacks will not be tolerated here according to our esteemed moderator.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,778 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    How much did this scientist get paid to describe the obvious?

    Don't fret over it too much, I am quite sure his opinion is at least worth as much as yours is. :grin
  • johnboy114johnboy114 Posts: 32 Greenhorn
    BubbaII wrote: »
    OMG!! You mean sharks eat the thousands of birds that fall into the sea during their fall and spring migrations? Ever been on a 3-6 week offshore commercial trip? Ever seen the number of birds that just don't make it? In the late winter-early spring (about this time of year or earlier), the birds take off from Mexico (or whereever) with a southeaster that is sucking up into a new cold front (and that southeaster winds up dumping a ton of snow on Buffalo NY), but they don't make it before the norther hits, and it just knocks them right out of the sky.

    They crash land on the boats all the time - if there is a boat out there to land on. Then they die, if the cattle egrets on the boat don't catch them first.

    Did you know tiger sharks migrate thousands of miles to go eat fledgling boobies and albatrosses in the Pacific.

    How much did this scientist get paid to describe the obvious?

    Bubba,
    not quite sure the enjoyment you get in trying to be such an antagonist, but in doing so you really show ignorance and lack of knowledge on subjects.

    - you typed OMG - that's pretty funny right there. I would imagine there are still some 12 year olds using that, LOL
    - thousands of birds? where did you get this number from?
    - you assumed all the birds found in tiger sharks are migratory.
    - you mentioned boobies and albatrosses - great comparison, oh wait those are marine birds, this is about terrestrial birds
    - you come across as this not being important - why is it important that you need to tell me about how tiger sharks migrate to eat boobies and albatrosses?
    - since you seem to be such a great wealth on this subject, you must clearly have read articles and such on it, please forward those over. good luck finding, those, or maybe you dropped them overboard on one of your coveted 3-6 week offshore commercial trip.
    - you must have paid really close attention to ask how much did he get paid...he didn't that's what he is trying to do.

    many people find it important to understand the life cycles and patterns of sharks as they are an indication of the well being of the environment in which they live. understanding migration patterns and what they eat is an important part to this.

    I either expect you to ignore my reply, or come back with some more condescending arrogant reply based on your "experience" working offshore. has anyone pointed out to you this is the conservation forum?
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    johnboy114 wrote: »
    Bubba,

    I either expect you to ignore my reply, or come back with some more condescending arrogant reply based on your "experience" working offshore. has anyone pointed out to you this is the conservation forum?

    Not condescending at all. Just been there, done that, got the T-shirt, wore it out, now use it to wax the car. I read the "abstract". I'd like to see the research proposal.

    "DNA barcoding of the bird remains identified them as terrestrial species like kingbirds, flycatchers, thrashers, coots, wrens, woodpeckers, doves and yellowthroats! Currently, this link between tiger sharks and the backyard birds they consume is a mystery."

    Where's the mystery? Those terrestrial passerine birds migrate across a vast expanse of water and many don't make it. They evolved when that expanse wasn't quite so big. There are oyster reefs in 40 fathoms off Alabama and a big cypress forest out there too - ie, that was the coastline at one time, and the Yucatan shelf would have been similarly affected by low water. But that is what is ingrained innately into their "bird-brained" system; to migrate on that fly route. After that route became much longer as sea levels rose back, they now can't make it; land in the water, flop around; get eaten or sink when they die.

    More importantly, if this research were so important and desperately needed, it would be funded by legitimate funding sources after critical scientific peer review deemed this research was necessary, but instead its on one of those web-based "pledge money to my odd desire" sites.

    Not badmouthing; stating the obvious.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Not condescending at all. Just been there, done that, got the T-shirt, wore it out, now use it to wax the car. I read the "abstract". I'd like to see the research proposal.

    "DNA barcoding of the bird remains identified them as terrestrial species like kingbirds, flycatchers, thrashers, coots, wrens, woodpeckers, doves and yellowthroats! Currently, this link between tiger sharks and the backyard birds they consume is a mystery."

    Where's the mystery; those terrestrial passerine birds migrate across a vast expanse of water and many don't make it. They evolved when that expanse wasn't quite so big. There are oyster reefs in 40 fathoms off Alabama and a big cypress forest out there too - ie, that was the coastline at one time, and the Yucatan shelf would have been similarly affected by low water. But that is what is ingrained innately into their "bird-brained" system; to migrate on that fly route. After that route became much longer as sea levels rose back, they now can't make it; land in the water, flop around; get eaten or sink when they die.

    More importantly, if this research were so important and desperately needed, it would be funded by legitimate funding sources after critical peer review supported the research proposal. But instead its on one of those web-based "pledge money" sites.

    Not badmouthing; stating the obvious.

    You asked for references. Really not hard to find, if you are an old retired research assistant and have a scientific library of reprints. If you don't think this is old news

    review Springer 1939 ("... and migratory birds such as warblers.") found in Gulf tiger sharks.

    Baughman and Springer 1950 quoted Springer 39, but noted additional species like sea birds, and Bigelow and Schroeder 48 quoted Baughman and Springer publication (not sure how that chronology lines up).

    Kauffman, 1950 noted feathers in Philippine tiger sharks (along with a black cat and a horse leg).

    Clark and von Schmidt 1965 noted bird bones and feathers in tiger shark stomachs off Florida.

    Not gonna come forward of 50 years ago. This isn't news, nor research worthy.

    Tigers eat birds; always have, always will. They are scavengers. They have been found with inedible objects in their stomachs. They swallow what is in front of them. They are the last species in their genus, which at one time, totalled numerous species. They are adaptable survivors.
  • johnboy114johnboy114 Posts: 32 Greenhorn
    Bubba your points are flawed and filled with arrogance and are condescending. Since you seem to be an expert on this why don't you contact Marcus your self and offer up your expertise to save him from trying to reveal anything new. If you want his number just shoot me a pm. I am sure he would be glad to talk to you and would appreciate you saving him this wasted time as you see it. Aruing with you on a public forum seems to be enjoyable for you as others have already pointed out.

    I am gathering you must be in your 50-60s if you are retired, so I offer this up to you, don't let your age or past experiences or whatever it may be keep you from realizing that there is always something to learn. As I stated earlier I expect no response or another condescending been there done that got the t shirt post. No worries for me at all either way. I urge you though since it seems you feel so strongly and have such a great wealth on this that you reach out to Marcus. Have a good weekend and tight lines.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    No arrogance intended. I'll admit you yanked my chain when you insinuated there was no previous documentation of this phenomenon
    johnboy114 wrote: »
    please forward those over. good luck finding those,

    suggesting no such information existed. I don't have a big library on sharks; wasn't my line of work, but I do have a reprint box or two with some of the more seminal synoptic papers. To meet your request, I provided some historical references that were between 50-75 years old, and obviously there are more.

    That tigers eat birds is nothing new (see Dodrill 1977, where 5 of the 16 tigers with stomach contents contained bird remains, including cuckoos, thrushes, warblers, and even a non-migratory dove.) That birds migrate (or get blown offshore during summer storms) and don't survive is not new either.

    Now, if your friend wants to stick satellite tags in fish and track them for behavioral movements, that's all well and good. But, tying it to "...this link between tiger sharks and the backyard birds they consume is a mystery." is a bit of a stretch. Its not a mystery; its pretty darned common knowledge, apparently, among those who do shark studies.
  • LightfootLightfoot Posts: 22 Greenhorn
    "Personal attacks will not be tolerated here according to our esteemed moderator."

    I guess they'll be kicking bubbaII off most any day then huh?
  • LightfootLightfoot Posts: 22 Greenhorn
    BubbaII wrote: »
    No arrogance intended. I'll admit you yanked my chain when you insinuated there was no previous documentation of this phenomenon suggesting no such information existed. I don't have a big library on sharks; wasn't my line of work, but I do have a reprint box or two with some of the more seminal synoptic papers. To meet your request, I provided some historical references that were between 50-75 years old, and obviously there are more.


    I think I have a reprint box or two with some of the more seminal synoptic papers too... I can provide you with some historical references that are between 500 and 750 years old... and they say the world is flat and if you sail to the horizon, a tiger shark may eat you...
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Lightfoot wrote: »
    BubbaII wrote: »
    No arrogance intended. I'll admit you yanked my chain when you insinuated there was no previous documentation of this phenomenon suggesting no such information existed. I don't have a big library on sharks; wasn't my line of work, but I do have a reprint box or two with some of the more seminal synoptic papers. To meet your request, I provided some historical references that were between 50-75 years old, and obviously there are more.


    I think I have a reprint box or two with some of the more seminal synoptic papers too... I can provide you with some historical references that are between 500 and 750 years old... and they say the world is flat and if you sail to the horizon, a tiger shark may eat you...

    I apologize. johnboy picked apart trivia in my reply, but suggested there was no literature available to document this phenomenon. What he failed to recognize or apparently appreciate, was that in just a quick search, I was able to pull several 50 to 75 year old references documenting that tigers eat birds. Imagine what a detailed literature search would provide? Like me or not, johnboy needs to get his ducks in a row before saying this is breaking Fox news.
  • johnboy114johnboy114 Posts: 32 Greenhorn
    Bubba,
    Your interest in something that is not news worthy is quite entertaining. With each of your post it becomes more and more clear you don't really care about science or finding real information but more so with being seen or heard on a public forum. Good for you. IF you don't believe that's the case and you really are trying to educate me to get my ducks in a row then I must have missed the pm asking for the phone number for Marcus. That would benefit someone other than just trying to beat your chest and look smart. If you have to try and look smart maybe..... Never mind. Thanks for the references that prob can't be found online (convienant for you). Not sure why you have stated this is Fox News worthy either? I simply posted a project my buddy is working on. Oh and no one is talking about ducks. Those are waterfowl. This is about land birds.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    johnboy114 wrote: »
    Bubba,
    Thanks for the references that prob can't be found online (convienant for you).

    Are references only found online now? Last time I checked, most universities still had something called a "library" that something called "books" sitting on shelves, and inside those books and journals are articles you can read. I'm sure your professor has one at his convenience. Besides, any shark biologist would have the reprints I cited; they are not obtuse references; they are seminal works cited over and over in subsequent research papers.

    Sure, shoot me his phone number in a PM. Be glad to talk with him. Never mind. If he's at Dauphin Island, I can probably find his phone number online.
  • LightfootLightfoot Posts: 22 Greenhorn
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Lightfoot wrote: »

    I apologize. johnboy picked apart trivia in my reply, but suggested there was no literature available to document this phenomenon. What he failed to recognize or apparently appreciate, was that in just a quick search, I was able to pull several 50 to 75 year old references documenting that tigers eat birds. Imagine what a detailed literature search would provide? Like me or not, johnboy needs to get his ducks in a row before saying this is breaking Fox news.


    BubbaII,
    In the original post, I don't see where johnboy114 said anything about Fox News. Not even an exclamation mark after "Check this out". A simple statement that he thought would be interesting to readers of the ConFron forum. A friend that is doing research on something that we all have an interest in... Fish that swim and what they eat.

    You replied in consistent and predictable manner... with over the top arrogance, sarcastic/belittling remarks that added little to nothing to the post. Yes, what sharks eat has most likely been studied before. Yes, it's probably been done a long time ago. My guess would be that people have been discussing what fish will eat before the first fish was ever caught and here we sit after thousands of years, still discussing it. You would think that by now we would know if you want to catch a red grouper, use a pinfish. If you want a red snapper use squid. But it's not that simple. Things change... What I caught fish with yesterday may not work today or next week, who knows??

    That's why research is done over and over... things change. Jonas Salk developed the first viable polio vaccine in the mid 50's. Polio has, for the most part, been wiped off of the face of the earth. Case closed... throw away the vaccine... why continue research on something that we already know, don't have a use for??? Last night on 60 Minutes they reported that Duke University is using the polio virus to trick the human immune system to attack brain tumors! Now why in the world would anyone be doing anything with the polio virus?? The research is done. It's 50 to 60 year old knowledge. It can't possibly be of any use to anyone could it?

    Maybe, just maybe we might still have a few things to learn about tiger sharks...

    Lightfoot
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