Better Stock-Up

NACl H2O Luvr

ATF pushes bullet ban, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

It’s starting.

As promised, President Obama is using executive actions to impose gun control on the nation, targeting the top-selling rifle in the country, the AR-15 style semi-automatic, with a ban on one of the most-used AR bullets by sportsmen and target shooters.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives this month revealed that it is proposing to put the ban on 5.56mm ammo on a fast track, immediately driving up the price of the bullets and prompting retailers, including the huge outdoors company Cabela’s, to urge sportsmen to urge Congress to stop the president.

Taken from and continue reading here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/26/obama-to-ban-bullets-by-executive-action-threatens-top-selling-ar-15-rifle/

Cut runner

Here we go again.. fear sells
Gun and ammunition manufacturers were loving the last run of fear sales, and they're ready for the next round. It's turning into the diamond trade

NACl H2O Luvr

Cut runner wrote: »

Here we go again.. fear sells
Gun and ammunition manufacturers were loving the last run of fear sales, and they're ready for the next round. It's turning into the diamond trade

It isn't fear mongering when it's true.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2015/02/24/why-is-the-atf-moving-to-ban-common-rifle-ammo/

Baits Out

Cut runner wrote: »

Here we go again.. fear sells
Gun and ammunition manufacturers were loving the last run of fear sales, and they're ready for the next round. It's turning into the diamond trade

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

May we guess that a head in the sand will eventually turn into a diamond?

JKP

Not much detail in that article. Assume it is referring to the M855 ban which isn't exactly breaking news.

FloridaOD

Only until fairly recently have "Sportsmen" and "Target Shooters" been identified with such firearms.

For the longest time "Sportsmen" did not embrace "AR". Yea,it was 'political' for sure-anyone recall Governor Lawton Chiles tangle up during Assault Ban era? The press quizzed him on his Ruger Mini,to which he said he really didn't like it.

It has been important for AR interests to group AR with the broader "Sportsman","Hunt" affiliation which the general public more broadly supports.

I have come full circle. Why single out a particular design? I am thinking "Saturday Night Special" for instance.
So I am much more accepting of "AR".

I think a point to be made with any ammo ban or crime effect taxation is to recognize the sheer giant volume of rounds fire legally,to no ill effect.

It's a given that America's gun owners helped place Obama in office-twice.The President sincerely believes focus on AR is not to the detriment of Second Amendment and American sportsmen and women,hunters.He might be right,but his inclinations are disappointing. He could have done so much more by championing lawful gun ownership and pursuing a more public analytical view of gun crime statistics.

If this turns out to be old news,shame on the fear mongers,who have managed to make even .22 LR scarce.

JKP

I certainly don't support any ammo ban but less informed folks should know this is a specific make of 5.56 ammo. The real concern is whether this is just a trial run for a broader mandate from our liberal president....

DOCKSIDE

JKP wrote: »

I certainly don't support any ammo ban but less informed folks should know this is a specific make of 5.56 ammo. The real concern is whether this is just a trial run for a broader mandate from our liberal president....

Ding Ding. Winner ! It is the proverbial camel's nose under the tent. Contact your Senator and ***** about this ! I'm good with my stock in any case.

cadman

Here is a link to the ATF memo. It concerns armor piercing ammo.

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Notices/atf_framework_for_determining_whether_certain_projectiles_are_primarily_intended_for_sporting_purposes.pdf

NACl H2O Luvr

They've renamed it to armor piercing ammo in order to pass this draconian measure......it is NOT armor piercing ammo.

fins4me

"Armor Piercing" will be used just like the term Assault Rifle was and is used to confuse the progressive sheeple into a frightful stampede.

Triple Threat 33T

NACl H2O Luvr wrote: »

They've renamed it to armor piercing ammo in order to pass this draconian measure......it is NOT armor piercing ammo.

Be honest, explain to everyone here that's not familiar with XM855 what it is and what's different about it compared to let's say, XM193

duckmanJR

DOCKSIDE wrote: »

Ding Ding. Winner ! It is the proverbial camel's nose under the tent. Contact your Senator and ***** about this ! I'm good with my stock in any case.

I am unfamiliar with " Camel Nose "....I only know of Camel toe. :grin

Triple Threat 33T

Ok, NACI must be busy writing his congressman. The difference is the XM855 has a lead base with a steel "penetrating" core versus the lead core copper jacketed 193.

Honestly I personally don't like the 855 and have no use for it.

I also don't have any use for anyone telling me what ammo I can buy and own

Chuckc

Exactly. I've not shot any M855 and don't really want any but there are those who love the stuff and are not breaking any law in shooting it. The case could be made that it is more eco friendly with the reduced volume of lead.

If M855 is not available the demand for M193 will cause shortages and increased prices.

fins4me

I had a lot of it but I gave it away at the gun show.

treemanjohn

855 IS NOT armor piercing. It's a penetrator. Any 5.56 will defeat a kevlar vest, but it will not defeat a trauma plate

Chawk20

NACl H2O Luvr wrote: »

They've renamed it to armor piercing ammo in order to pass this draconian measure......it is NOT armor piercing ammo.

They are armor piercing rounds. "Steel penetrators"

IMO Law enforcement here in America are now worried that their soft armor is no longer worthy enough due to how some LEOs have handled certain situations and then aired on tv for the world to see which causes an out break of upset people. More and more people are standing up to cops as cops try to infringe on their rights. It all boils down to the government doesn't want to give LEO more money for better armor instead they want to take from the people so they don't have to cough up money.

cadman

NACl H2O Luvr wrote: »

They've renamed it to armor piercing ammo in order to pass this draconian measure......it is NOT armor piercing ammo.

I am no expert on this and not sure how they can use a law designed to prevent armor piecing ammo in handguns to ban this ammo. But I believe most steel core rifle ammo can penetrate a bullet proof vest which is where the issue lies.

Chuckc

I think the lowly 17HMR will also penetrate a vest.

Triple Threat 33T

What's interesting is that we're actually considering banning this 855 ammo, going through this whole painful process, spending all this money, when you don't even need half of the fingers on one hand to count how many times XM855 has been used to kill someone let alone penetrate body armor or any other kind of armor and kill someone.

cadman

Triple Threat 33T wrote: »

What's interesting is that we're actually considering banning this 855 ammo, going through this whole painful process, spending all this money, when you don't even need half of the fingers on one hand to count how many times XM855 has been used to kill someone let alone penetrate body armor or any other kind of armor and kill someone.

You seem to know this ammo. What handgun can fire this ammo? The law being used to justify this says any ammo that may be used in a handgun. I don't know of a handgun that uses .223 myself.

Chuckc

There are AR-15 based pistols as well as the Thompson Center Contender which could also fire it.

Still, it would be very interesting to hear of cases where it was actually used in a crime.

cpr

cadman wrote: »

You seem to know this ammo. What handgun can fire this ammo? The law being used to justify this says any ammo that may be used in a handgun. I don't know of a handgun that uses .223 myself.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/17121

The Ft Hood terrorist/workplace violence guy used the same cal. I read somewhere this was ATF's excuse.

cadman

Chuckc wrote: »

There are AR-15 based pistols as well as the Thompson Center Contender which could also fire it.

Still, it would be very interesting to hear of cases where it was actually used in a crime.

Don't all of the AR-15 pistols use the Sig stabilizing brace that ATF approved in 2013?

cadman

cpr wrote: »

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/17121

The Ft Hood terrorist/workplace violence guy used the same cal. I read somewhere this was ATF's excuse.

O.K. but 5.7 MM X 28 MM USG ammo is not banned.

NACl H2O Luvr

Triple Threat 33T wrote: »

What's interesting is that we're actually considering banning this 855 ammo, going through this whole painful process, spending all this money, when you don't even need half of the fingers on one hand to count how many times XM855 has been used to kill someone let alone penetrate body armor or any other kind of armor and kill someone.

The way to kill a Fighting Bull is to first weaken it with dozens of small spears.

Towers

If somehow our dumash leader pushed this through.... i wouldn't give you 2 cents for his life.
I have plenty of ammo but you can never have enough ammo.
Still want him terminated... from office. ASAP.

JKP

cadman wrote: »

You seem to know this ammo. What handgun can fire this ammo? The law being used to justify this says any ammo that may be used in a handgun. I don't know of a handgun that uses .223 myself.

I have a couple of "handguns" that fire the 5.56 / .223 round....

Pescatoral Pursuit

treemanjohn wrote: »

855 IS NOT armor piercing. It's a penetrator. Any 5.56 will defeat a kevlar vest, but it will not defeat a trauma plate

The second shot will.

cadman

JKP wrote: »

I have a couple of "handguns" that fire the 5.56 / .223 round....

Nice.

Can you get any accuracy with those things. I saw the Sig model and it is out of my price range. I paid less than a $1000 each for the ARs I own. I can't see paying over $3000 for a pistol version.