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Honest Question for the Anti-Gun LWNJ's?

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  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    m9000 wrote: »
    There is no such thing as a "gun show loophole". .

    Sure there is. One has to require a background check (dealer) other does not (individual) Both can sell an identical product yet one is immune from federal requirements FOR RESALE. That's a loophole if each person has a Glock 19 for sale.

    There are several States that require BC's for ALL sales at GUN SHOWS, ergo closing the "Gun show" loophole for purchase when offered 2 venues of resale (private/dealer)

    Sound about right?
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    Surely you're smart enough to know that's not how it works?
    m9000 wrote: »
    Cite the law that creates the "gun show loophole".

    Go tell Wayne LaPierre "There is no such thing as a "gun show loophole"."

    Tell Wayne LaPierre to "Cite the law that creates the "gun show loophole"."
  • WraithWraith Posts: 1,653 Captain
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    Sure there is. One has to require a background check (dealer) other does not (individual) Both can sell an identical product yet one is immune from federal requirements FOR RESALE. That's a loophole if each person has a Glock 19 for sale.

    There are several States that require BC's for ALL sales at GUN SHOWS, ergo closing the "Gun show" loophole for purchase when offered 2 venues of resale (private/dealer)

    Sound about right?

    Sorry, not a 'loop hole'. There is no means for a private party to do a NICS check, it is illegal. It is not legal for a 'dealer' to preform one for you either. How much of OPM are you willing to spend on a problem that really isn't a problem?
    SLOP, (Standard Liberal Operating Procedure).
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    Wraith wrote: »
    Sorry, not a 'loop hole'. There is no means for a private party to do a NICS check, it is illegal. It is not legal for a 'dealer' to preform one for you either. How much of OPM are you willing to spend on a problem that really isn't a problem?

    Ugh, the loophole is you can buy a gun from a dealer requiring a BC or an individual NOT requiring one. If both sellers have the EXACT same product for resale, forgoing a obstacle to obtain, that is the very definition of a loophole when comparing apples to apples. A felon can not get one from a dealer by law but the next table over from Joe Citizen can, no ID required. Right?

    As for OPM, ask Wayne he was the one advertising for this closure after Columbine.

    As for the legality on the individual it is done third party. Went to a show in CO and the had a booth set up

    Oh an isn't NICS federal and the other State criminal
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 32,622 AG
    I have a question. If we were to adopted a universal background check law how would a private seller be able to call into the federal system? He would have no identifier like a licensed dealer. Would there be a fee? Could anyone call and check on someone? What data would a buyer have to give a private seller? Would all sales have to go through a licensed dealer at that point, much like interstate sales do today?

    How would such a system work?

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    I have a question. If we were to adopted a universal background check law how would a private seller be able to call into the federal system? He would have no identifier like a licensed dealer. Would there be a fee? Could anyone call and check on someone? What data would a buyer have to give a private seller? Would all sales have to go through a licensed dealer at that point, much like interstate sales do today?

    How would such a system work?

    Third party, like the UPS store.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    If I wish to conduct a business transaction involving the purchase of a firearm with a private individual (and I often do) ,, it is not nor should it be any of the government's business.

    Whether the purchase takes place at a gun show or at my home should make no difference.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    Actually, it's not that cut & dry.
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    Ugh, the loophole is you can buy a gun from a dealer requiring a BC or an individual NOT requiring one.

    A dealer sold me the gun I bought at gun show - w/o so much as providing my name. Our Wayne LaPierre denying friends may try to refuse calling it a Loop Hole, but a Catch-22 that seems to be employed is dealers selling guns that are not part of their store/business inventory. Some dealers have guns for sale from private collections. Others have friends at their tables selling undocumented guns as individuals. The crowd ranges from soup to nuts, many sales take place off the gun show floor.

    It's not so much a "gun show loophole" as it is Business As Usual. Gun buyers who have no issues passing background check do have a wider selection. But pretty much anybody with cash can easily take home a gun.
  • m9000m9000 Posts: 2,139 Captain
    Actually, it's not that cut & dry.



    A dealer sold me the gun I bought at gun show - w/o so much as providing my name. Our Wayne LaPierre denying friends may try to refuse calling it a Loop Hole, but a Catch-22 that seems to be employed is dealers selling guns that are not part of their store/business inventory. Some dealers have guns for sale from private collections. Others have friends at their tables selling undocumented guns as individuals. The crowd ranges from soup to nuts, many sales take place off the gun show floor.

    It's not so much a "gun show loophole" as it is Business As Usual. Gun buyers who have no issues passing background check do have a wider selection. But pretty much anybody with cash can easily take home a gun.


    You need to report the dealer to the ATF and turn yourself in for violating the law.
  • chubascochubasco Posts: 18,390 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    If I wish to conduct a business transaction involving the purchase of a firearm with a private individual (and I often do) ,, it is not nor should it be any of the government's business.

    Whether the purchase takes place at a gun show or at my home should make no difference.


    Same should apply to all drugs. None of the government's business.

    As for guns a good start would be to make sure they don't fall into the hands of crazy people. Getting them out of the hands of all NRA members would be a good start.
    Chubasco.jpg
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    .

    Whether the purchase takes place at a gun show or at my home should make no difference.

    Then be prepared to be shown the door at the Gun show in certain States. The sponsors of the show and/or the State will require passing one for purchase.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    Then be prepared to be shown the door at the Gun show in certain States. The sponsors of the show and/or the State will require passing one for purchase.

    I have been buying firearms from individuals at gun shows for a lot of years,, never had an issue.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    chubasco wrote: »
    Same should apply to all drugs. None of the government's business.

    As for guns a good start would be to make sure they don't fall into the hands of crazy people. Getting them out of the hands of all NRA members would be a good start.

    Still looking for the Constitutional Amendment that guarantees the right to take and purchase drugs.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    Yup. Gun Shows are regulated state by state, even city by city.
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    Then be prepared to be shown the door at the Gun show in certain States. The sponsors of the show and/or the State will require passing one for purchase.

    For the $8 they're charging to be admitted they could do background checks on everybody going through the door IF there is such a thing as Instant Background Checks.
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    Countless thugs "have been buying firearms from individuals (anywhere they like) for a lot of years".
    fins4me wrote: »
    I have been buying firearms from individuals at gun shows for a lot of years,, never had an issue.

    And there have been countless issues.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Countless thugs "have been buying firearms from individuals (anywhere they like) for a lot of years".



    And there have been countless issues.

    That's a thug issue not a gun issue.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    I have been buying firearms from individuals at gun shows for a lot of years,, never had an issue.

    what part of "certain states" flew over you head?
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    It's a thugs with guns issue not a Constitutional Amendment issue.
    fins4me wrote: »
    That's a thug issue not a gun issue.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    Then be prepared to be shown the door at the Gun show in certain States. The sponsors of the show and/or the State will require passing one for purchase.

    The part that said I should be prepared.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • mississippi macmississippi mac Posts: 4,222 Captain
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    re. the thread title, why is this directed at anti-gun LWNJs? There aren't any anti-gun LWNJs on this forum, so you may not get any 'honest' responses.

    that would be true.....

    as you were.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Real White Dog

    if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
    #12976, joined 8-17-2002
  • chubascochubasco Posts: 18,390 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    Still looking for the Constitutional Amendment that guarantees the right to take and purchase drugs.

    It comes right after the section in the constitution that says felons who have served their time cannot own guns or vote.
    Chubasco.jpg
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    chubasco wrote: »
    It comes right after the section in the constitution that says felons who have served their time cannot own guns or vote.

    You are very confused about the Constitution of this nation...

    but then most of those who infest your side of the political spectrum have little knowledge and less respect for it.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    fins4me wrote: »
    You are very confused about the Constitution of this nation...

    but then most of those who infest your side of the political spectrum have little knowledge and less respect for it.

    says a member of the team who wants to deport American citizens.... talk about lack of respect for the constitution! sheeesh.
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    You are very confused about the Constitution of this nation...

    but then most of those who infest your side of the political spectrum have little knowledge and less respect for it.

    Where are the words "Farm Bill" spelled out in the Constitution

    I believe the creator infested your side of the political spectrum.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    I have never been a supporter of the farm bill,




















    especially the parts that have NOTHING to do with farming... Welfare, subsidies, trading policies that are not in favor of the American Farmer and other idiocy attached to it.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    fins4me wrote: »
    I have never been a supporter of the farm bill,
    especially the parts that have NOTHING to do with farming... Welfare, subsidies, trading policies that are not in favor of the American Farmer and other idiocy attached to it.


    Who cares, you still benefit from its unconstitutional existence.

    The "yeah but" argument false on deaf ears
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    Remember when it was claimed that Bush Jr described The Constitution as 'Just some GD piece of paper' after being told his plan was unconstitutional?

    fins has said he wants to rid of parts of "the Constitution of this nation".
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Remember when it was claimed that Bush Jr described The Constitution as 'Just some GD piece of paper' after being told his plan was unconstitutional?

    fins has said he wants to rid of parts of "the Constitution of this nation".

    Fins has said that he would like to see portions removed via the methods prescribed in the document. That is why the rules were put in place to do so.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,483 Officer
    Always fascinated withst the idea of the mentally ill should not be allowed to have a weapon. How and who decides. Is the paranoid weird guy that works with you mentally ill? He tells you that he is buying a firearm ..what do you do? Call his doctor?
    If a mentally ill person is under good control on meds.... Can he buy a firearm?
    Does every psychiatrist that sees a patient that should not have a firearm have to call some phone number to report it?
    Is alcohol or drug dependence a mental illness?
    How about all the mentally ill people that have never seen a doctor. Do you have to have a psyche exam to buy a weapon?

    The first person who is mentally ill and is told at the gun shop that he can't buy a firearm, he is going to get his dad's or his friend's gun and shoot the doctor, shoot the guy at the counter at the gunshop and then shoot himself. After all he is mentally ill

    All this mental illness stuff is a diversion from the real problem of lots of unsecured or illegal firearms. I think that if you get caught with a stolen or illegally possessed firearm you get shot on the spot in each leg with the same firearm, ( in each arm and leg for second offense and in the forehead if stupid enough for a third offense) the gun issue would go away and only legal owners will have firearms
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 AG
    fins attempts to distinguish between "he wants to get rid of parts of The Constitution" AND "he would like to see portions (of the Constitution of this nation) removed" by referring to himself in the 3rd person. OK.
    fins4me wrote: »
    Fins has said that he would like to see portions removed

    Anyway fins tries to cut it "wants to" OR "would like to"? Would like to "get rid of" OR see "removed"? Still shows "lack of respect for the constitution!" as well as "the rules".

    fins can't even say Amendment. He's more of the "see portions removed" type. No wonder Mitt the Twit's promise to Get Rid Of Big Bird appealed to him.
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