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Take 2 mins to vote on this poll

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  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    that's funny...WWWDsay

    Doesn't really matter WWDWS about it. I don't own it.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Randy, check back in 2045 if you're around and you'll still find them running cows, same as they do now.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    Randy, check back in 2045 if you're around and you'll still find them running cows, same as they do now.

    Y'all better get those fences w roofs as fwc suggests if u plan on keeping your livestock. It will be required by 2045 just like self composing poopoo and garbage stations at your house
  • SeaPro220SeaPro220 Posts: 111 Officer
    voted NO
    SeaPro 220 w/ 200 Verado
    Second Wind
    Manatee Marina
  • gottheitch22gottheitch22 fort Meade FLPosts: 4,345 Captain
    SeaPro220 wrote: »
    voted NO

    better question is why
    living life as i like
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    better get those fences w roofs as fwc suggests if u plan on keeping your livestock. It will be required by 2045

    Doubtful. Check back then and see how your prediction fared.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    not nuff carpet baggers in mormon land as compared to Naples... I imagine if they can get thru glades and okke county, marion will finish em off
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,623 AG
    Jr, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe your color blind? In the article Blue Links appear with all sorts of science. Might want to clink those links before you say things like U said above.

    Somebodys facebook page is not science....

    And the map of deaths....I really am impressed with the painstaking accuracy...especially the one that's 10 miles out in the gulf :rotflmao
    I guess SW Florida is so crowded with cats.... that one was swimming to central America.

    And the two goats that were killed this past year...**** shame.... :grin

    Since the poll is easily skewed...it is not much of an indicator...but..... it is 67% no at this point.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • TheSnookManTheSnookMan Posts: 430 Officer
    The panthers will never be removed from the list. Its a big time $$$$ maker just like the manatees. License plates, donations, parks, tourist.....
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    marion will finish em off

    Yeah, I heard Ocala's pretty rough on them so you're probably right.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    94 yr old men having nothing to loose in ocala other than cukes and collards..RIP unknown gut shooter
  • ecueagleecueagle Posts: 478 Officer
    Looks like the poll took a huge swing in the wrong direction.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 3,115 Captain
    ecueagle wrote: »
    Looks like the poll took a huge swing in the wrong direction.

    Yep. Is anyone actually surprised?
  • gottheitch22gottheitch22 fort Meade FLPosts: 4,345 Captain
    Big Mak wrote: »
    Yep. Is anyone actually surprised?

    tHE ANTIS IM SURE ARE VOTING AS many times as the can .
    living life as i like
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
  • gottheitch22gottheitch22 fort Meade FLPosts: 4,345 Captain
    Cyclist wrote: »
    A big fat NO!

    And what would be your reason for a NO
    living life as i like
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    And what would be your reason for a NO

    Panthers = less development and more wild lands.

    Panthers are part of Florida, and always have been.
  • gottheitch22gottheitch22 fort Meade FLPosts: 4,345 Captain
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Panthers = less development and more wild lands.

    Panthers are part of Florida, and always have been.

    If you really think a cougar is going to stop the government from selling the land when areas are built out for a major profit you are just foolish .
    living life as i like
  • SWFL HunterSWFL Hunter Posts: 669 Officer
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Panthers = less development and more wild lands.

    Panthers are part of Florida, and always have been.


    The USFWS, United States Fish and Wildlife Service, permitted almost 100,000 acres of development. They did so knowing full well, without any doubt, that the lands they permitted were critical panther habitat. A large part of that land is a city now called Ave Maria. Delisting the panther does not mean that panthers are going to cease to exist. It simply means they would not be afforded the protection they currently receive, and could be managed at sustainable levels. That protection is what has lead to a single species management endeavor that has resulted in devastating consequences to its environment. Despite the clear, scientific facts that support my claims, and the fact that most if not all of the agency managers agree, the laws of protection afforded by the ESA are destroying everything they are intended to save.

    You can not legislate the natural world, the wildlife does not read our law books, and they don't follow our play books. The Florida Panther was NEVER in danger of going extinct. The simple solutions they could have taken to rectify the genetic issue, were circumvented. Instead a plan created and manipulated by agenda driven organizations, was concocted, a story written, and a great money maker and cash cow was created.

    If in fact you believe the story that was sold, which it is apparent that you do, your problems have been answered. As you obviously accept that what we have is a Florida Panther, you should sleep comfortably knowing that if and when we run into the genetic issue again, we can just go pick up some more Cougars in Texas, where they are so plentiful they are considered vermin, shot on sight, and have an open season.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Can panthers exist in STA's and EEA's or any other projects which flood the land?

    BIG FAT NO!
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    The USFWS, United States Fish and Wildlife Service, permitted almost 100,000 acres of development. They did so knowing full well, without any doubt, that the lands they permitted were critical panther habitat. A large part of that land is a city now called Ave Maria. Delisting the panther does not mean that panthers are going to cease to exist. It simply means they would not be afforded the protection they currently receive, and could be managed at sustainable levels. That protection is what has lead to a single species management endeavor that has resulted in devastating consequences to its environment. Despite the clear, scientific facts that support my claims, and the fact that most if not all of the agency managers agree, the laws of protection afforded by the ESA are destroying everything they are intended to save.

    You can not legislate the natural world, the wildlife does not read our law books, and they don't follow our play books. The Florida Panther was NEVER in danger of going extinct. The simple solutions they could have taken to rectify the genetic issue, were circumvented. Instead a plan created and manipulated by agenda driven organizations, was concocted, a story written, and a great money maker and cash cow was created.

    If in fact you believe the story that was sold, which it is apparent that you do, your problems have been answered. As you obviously accept that what we have is a Florida Panther, you should sleep comfortably knowing that if and when we run into the genetic issue again, we can just go pick up some more Cougars in Texas, where they are so plentiful they are considered vermin, shot on sight, and have an open season.

    I think your 100,000 acres is a gross overstatement.

    Ultra conservatives in government and private industries are the BIG PROBLEM.

    And most hunters vote conservative and ultra conservative, THUS HUNTERS ARE A HUGE PROBLEM, as they almost ALWAYS VOTE AGAINST THEIR BEST INTERESTS.

    http://www.academia.edu/6553797/Panther_politics_neoliberalizing_nature_in_Southwest_Florida
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,374 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    THUS HUNTERS ARE A HUGE PROBLEM,

    Why this guy is permitted to keep posting his nonsense in the Hunting section of FSFF, which is trying to brand itself as a voice for Florida Hunters.....is beyond me!
  • SWFL HunterSWFL Hunter Posts: 669 Officer
    Once again Cyclist, you are correct I grossly exaggerated......

    The actual grand total of Critical Panther Habitat permitted for development by USFWS was........ 96,124 ACRES. I was off by about 4,000 acres. I am sorry, I admit my mistake.

    http://www.peer.org/campaigns/wildlife-protection/florida-panther/

    In the period from 1984 to 2009, USFWS approved 127 developments in areas that it deemed could adversely affect the panther. Those projects destroyed nearly 100,000 acres (96,124) of panther habitat while less than 42,000 acres (41,612) were "preserved" either on or offsite of the projects. It is unclear how many of those preserved acres actually benefit the panther.

    In its checkered history of panther conservation, the agency has hidden behind numerous excuses to justify its failure to act including flawed science and the position, outlined in its Recovery Plan, that insufficient habitat exists in Florida to allow for recovery

    I must agree with NACl H2O Luvr, you sir, spew a lot of silly stuff. I know, I know, you like to walk around and hunt pigs on your private land that has been in your family......

    It is no mistake that Conservation and Conservative go hand in hand, both in nature, in spelling and in government. You sir are like the vast majority, the sheeple of the world. You have accepted the propaganda for face value, and have spent little to no energy looking any further. With very little effort one can amass all the scientific data and fact to arrive at the conclusion that this single species endeavor is NOT WORKING!
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Why this guy is permitted to keep posting his nonsense in the Hunting section of FSFF, which is trying to brand itself as a voice for Florida Hunters.....is beyond me!

    Because it's a free world you communist. :wink

    Face it, south Florida development is by rich uber conservatives and guess who controls our government.

    You don't like taking land and putting it into permanent conservation then you are gonna get compromise with conservatives in government and private industry.

    Face it, the tree hugger organizations are pretty much the only groups fighting the major developers. NOT THE HUNTING GROUPS.

    Hunters are against tree huggers, anti hunters, any land conservation that does not include hunting, science, etc.

    When have hunters organized against the conservative block they vote for??????? Huh?
  • gottheitch22gottheitch22 fort Meade FLPosts: 4,345 Captain
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Because it's a free world you communist. :wink

    Face it, south Florida development is by rich uber conservatives and guess who controls our government.

    You don't like taking land and putting it into permanent conservation then you are gonna get compromise with conservatives in government and private industry.

    Face it, the tree hugger organizations are pretty much the only groups fighting the major developers. NOT THE HUNTING GROUPS.

    LOL I Just almost spit up reading that . Don't worry the government will sell the land for top dollar for development .
    living life as i like
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    OK, what are the specifics of land in Florida sold by the feds to date and which hunter groups fight against the pro development policies of our ultra conservative Florida government?
  • gottheitch22gottheitch22 fort Meade FLPosts: 4,345 Captain
    Cyclist wrote: »
    OK, what are the specifics of land in Florida sold by the feds to date and which hunter groups fight against the pro development policies of our ultra conservative Florida government?

    SIMPLE FACTS ARE THIS STATE LIVES OFF DEVELOPMENT AND WITH IN THE NEXT 30 YEAR IT WILL BE BUILT ALL THE WAY ACROSS
    living life as i like
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,623 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Because it's a free world you communist. :wink

    Indeed...some here just cannot bear the thought of someone holding a different viewpoint.

    You make perfect sense on some of your points...but you are tossing pearls before swine. :wink
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,925 Captain
    Anti groups dont get hunter support bc hunters are rarely included in those recreational activities on the lands. Whenever hunting has been permitted, 100% of the time their activities are too...some parcels have their size restrictions. I get it. But when 1000s of acres are un huntable but can be used by the groups i should support but strive to keep me out...is when i call it all a load of crap. Its not equal and if those groups dont embrace hunters then hunters are not going to fund groups who aim to end hunting. $9 million just spent last week...no hunting
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Once again Cyclist, you are correct I grossly exaggerated......

    The actual grand total of Critical Panther Habitat permitted for development by USFWS was........ 96,124 ACRES. I was off by about 4,000 acres. I am sorry, I admit my mistake.

    http://www.peer.org/campaigns/wildlife-protection/florida-panther/

    In the period from 1984 to 2009, USFWS approved 127 developments in areas that it deemed could adversely affect the panther. Those projects destroyed nearly 100,000 acres (96,124) of panther habitat while less than 42,000 acres (41,612) were "preserved" either on or offsite of the projects. It is unclear how many of those preserved acres actually benefit the panther.

    In its checkered history of panther conservation, the agency has hidden behind numerous excuses to justify its failure to act including flawed science and the position, outlined in its Recovery Plan, that insufficient habitat exists in Florida to allow for recovery

    I must agree with NACl H2O Luvr, you sir, spew a lot of silly stuff. I know, I know, you like to walk around and hunt pigs on your private land that has been in your family......

    It is no mistake that Conservation and Conservative go hand in hand, both in nature, in spelling and in government. You sir are like the vast majority, the sheeple of the world. You have accepted the propaganda for face value, and have spent little to no energy looking any further. With very little effort one can amass all the scientific data and fact to arrive at the conclusion that this single species endeavor is NOT WORKING!

    The USFWS does not approve ERP and development permits, the WMDs and state does. USFWS answers questions pertinent to the species under their jurisdiction that fall in the area in question.

    The developments you mention would be bigger with less conservation if the USFWS was not involved.

    Thank our conservative Florida legislature for that mess.
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