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The value of a higher education.

chubascochubasco Posts: 18,390 Officer
The bottom line is that I have known and worked with many very intelligent undereducated people who were super successful. What they ALL had in common though was that every single one of them, without exception valued education; made sure their own kids got the best educations possible and often only hired those with the best educations they could get.

The ONLY people I have ever known that were dismissive of the value of a good education were those who did not have one and had not really achieved that much.

Successful people, even those without a good education KNOW that a good education is a very valuable asset and tool. Just because you don't have the right tool does not mean you can't build the project but you always know it would have been easier and possibly better if you did have that "right tool". Also true that having the right tools is no guarantee that you can successfully build the project.
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Replies

  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    chubasco wrote: »
    The bottom line is that I have know and worked with many very intelligent undereducated people who were super successful. What they ALL had in common though was that every single one of them, without exception valued education; made sure their own kids got the best educations possible and often only hired those with the best educations they could get.

    The ONLY people I have ever known that were dismissive of the value of a good education were those who did not have one and had not really achieved that much.

    Successful people, even those without a good education KNOW that a good education is a very valuable asset and tool. Just because you don't have the right tool does not mean you can't build the project but you always know it would have been easier and possibly better if you did have that "right tool". Also true that having the right tools is no guarantee that you can successfully build the project.

    I agree with everything you wrote. Check my signature.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • David BDavid B Posts: 1,907 Captain
    This is exactly why I returned to college so late in life. I value the increase in knowledge from the education.
    Increasing MMGW or climate change, one twist off at a time.
  • Lucky7Team2Lucky7Team2 Posts: 6,794 Officer
    David B wrote: »
    This is exactly why I returned to college so late in life. I value the increase in knowledge from the education.

    CatlitterBox does not agree...
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    What gets me in these kind of topics are the people who say "well, I've done very well without a college degree". I always feel like responding "hey dude, no one said you didn't do well". "This ain't about you, it's about the other 300,000,000 people in this country."

    You can always tell the ones who have no understanding of statistics and math and trends and averages and means when they say "well, Bill Gates did alright without a college degree".
  • chubascochubasco Posts: 18,390 Officer
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    What gets me in these kind of topics are the people who say "well, I've done very well without a college degree". I always feel like responding "hey dude, no one said you didn't do well". "This ain't about you, it's about the other 300,000,000 people in this country."

    You can always tell the ones who have no understanding of statistics and math and trends and averages and means when they say "well, Bill Gates did alright without a college degree".


    Yet look at the requirements needed to get a job with his company. You better be at the very top of your class from a top school and then some.
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  • CatBoxCatBox Posts: 3,709 Captain
    CatlitterBox does not agree...

    The other discussion was if people with Degrees (I have two) are more intelligent in relation to those that do NOT have a Degree.

    Chubs framed the argument correctly above. I would be surprised if anyone would disagree with his stament above :huh
  • Finger MulletFinger Mullet Posts: 3,852 Officer
    I'll admit being a Licensed Professional Engineer opened many doors for me and allowed me to retire way early. Could I be where I am now without a college education, perhaps, but not likely.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Alumni and Uniersity networks are immensely valuable. The actual degree? All depends.

    It was useless for me. No degrees for what I do :)
  • Finger MulletFinger Mullet Posts: 3,852 Officer
    greggl wrote: »
    Alumni and Uniersity networks are immensely valuable. The actual degree? All depends.

    It was useless for me. No degrees for what I do :)

    Never used Alumni or University networks. Hell I did not know there were any.

    Aren't you the one posting and biatching about pay and some crazy hollywood conspiracy.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Never used Alumni or University networks.

    Aren't you the one posting and biatching about pay and some crazy hollywood conspiracy.

    PhD'd co-workers and peers were equally caught up in it. Woudn't have helped.
  • chubascochubasco Posts: 18,390 Officer
    CatBox wrote: »
    The other discussion was if people with Degrees (I have two) are more intelligent in relation to those that do NOT have a Degree.

    Chubs framed the argument correctly above. I would be surprised if anyone would disagree with his stament above :huh


    Never happened. Never stated this. Clearly a delusion of yours.
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  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    funny the guy without the degree loves to impersonate one with a degree
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    I'll admit being a Licensed Professional Engineer opened many doors for me and allowed me to retire way early. Could I be where I am now without a college education, perhaps, but not likely.

    I'm an engineer, but never took the test to be a licensed professional. I woulda never passed that test. In my industry, having a license may be a discriminator for promotions but certainly not a requirement for employment. In fact, I would bet 99% of us are not licensed professional engineers. I've only known a few in the 40 years working in defense.

    However, in the civilian industry world, having a license may be the difference between working or not working.
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,750 AG
    I home schooled myself.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • jlh49jlh49 Posts: 3,127 Officer
    From Wikipedia:

    "...The definition of intelligence is controversial. Some groups of psychologists have suggested the following definitions:

    1.From "Mainstream Science on Intelligence" (1994), an editorial statement by fifty-two researchers:

    A very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings—"catching on," "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do.

    2.From "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns" (1995), a report published by the Board of Scientific Affairs of the American Psychological Association:

    Individuals differ from one another in their ability to understand complex ideas, to adapt effectively to the environment, to learn from experience, to engage in various forms of reasoning, to overcome obstacles by taking thought. Although these individual differences can be substantial, they are never entirely consistent: a given person's intellectual performance will vary on different occasions, in different domains, as judged by different criteria. Concepts of "intelligence" are attempts to clarify and organize this complex set of phenomena. Although considerable clarity has been achieved in some areas, no such conceptualization has yet answered all the important questions, and none commands universal assent. Indeed, when two dozen prominent theorists were recently asked to define intelligence, they gave two dozen, somewhat different, definitions..."
  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,957 Captain
    chubasco wrote: »
    The bottom line is that I have known and worked with many very intelligent undereducated people who were super successful. What they ALL had in common though was that every single one of them, without exception valued education; made sure their own kids got the best educations possible and often only hired those with the best educations they could get.


    The best things a parent can give to a child is a "good work" ethic..........

    Any further life long education is up to the individual.......

    Some can continue education "formally" and some can learn from "hard knocks" ..... either way you "pay".:)
  • chubascochubasco Posts: 18,390 Officer
    MACD wrote: »
    The best things a parent can give to a child is a "good work" ethic..........

    Any further life long education is up to the individual.......

    Some can continue education "formally" and some can learn from "hard knocks" ..... either way you "pay".:)


    Agree; all educations cost. Formal ones can still be a great tool and will open a lot of doors easier than the informal ones. It's all about hedging your children's bets.

    So, if a parent instills a good work ethic AND instills the value of a good formal education into their children their chances of success are improved.
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  • snippersnipper Posts: 524 Officer
    It depends on what someone wants to do. Some careers don't require a degree. I'd also say the job market is terrible. The days of staying with a company for 30 years is pretty much a thing of the past. You don't need a degree to be educated, and a degree doesn't mean you are educated.
  • bswivbswiv Posts: 7,873 Admiral
    Worth remembering that "education" and a "degree" are NOT THE SAME. In the very changed world of today a education on almost any subject is available to everyone, almost for free.

    Now if we are talking the piece of paper rather than the "education" then that is different.

    And I would point this out, especially as the psychology of a idea and the social actions/attitudes it engenders are important to a society, that to by inference denigrate those who toil without a "education" is a mistake. Much the rather a acceptance and a holding up of the value and nobility of any man who performs in a competent way, who fulfills his agreed to obligations, who is productive......that is imperative.

    Fact is that not all of us have the talents, desire nor the ability to attain a "degree" BUT this does not mean that we may not be valuable, or might I add necessary.

    A truly good stone mason, or plumber or mechanic......we need these people and we should honor them for their competence, their skills and their talents.

    In some ways the mantra of "education" can be a detriment if it leaves a implication that those who go down another useful path are to be looked down upon.

    Where is the celebration of diversity?
  • chubascochubasco Posts: 18,390 Officer
    As far as I'm concerned a master tradesman is still a degree that requires a formal education. In high school I was unsure which path I wanted to follow and sat for an apprentice exam. No intelligent person values these educations any less than those that lead to other professions. The key is still education and I say again, the only people who do not value education are the uneducated and ignorant.
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  • bswivbswiv Posts: 7,873 Admiral
    Ability and the fact of a man performing to the limit of his ability must be somehow appreciated.

    The group psychology we unintentionally engender in a society can be harmful not just to a few individuals but to the society as a whole.

    Champion & celebrate the higher callings of competence ( At whatever level a man is capable ), honesty, perseverance, self development, lifelong learning and all the rest as a BETTER means of encouraging education. Same result in some ways and less damage in others.
  • MadbeachMadbeach On the riverPosts: 970 Officer
    I've found is that most employers do not look into credentials on a resume. I have a bachelors in my respected field (Systems/Network Administration), several certifications and a lot of experience. I do value experience over certs/class hours, however, I see more and more people who don't have a degree or certs claim that they actually do. Funny, because a few people that I know said that they were (xxxx) certified and actually didn't even have the acronym correct. The one thing that I value out of a degree is that it shows that you can start and finish a long term project. This person will see things through.
  • JBondJBond Posts: 5,039 Officer
    Never used Alumni or University networks. Hell I did not know there were any.

    Networking played a crucial role in the success of my business. Education is valuable, but the lifelong friends and contacts you make in the process can be even more valuable. It is wise to use every available tool when trying to build a start-up into an enduring success.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    JBond wrote: »
    Networking played a crucial role in the success of my business. Education is valuable, but the lifelong friends and contacts you make in the process can be even more valuable. It is wise to use every available tool when trying to build a start-up into an enduring success.

    Absolutely.

    I was able to foster some creat connections withing multiple alumni networks. Not being 'inside the system', I think I had more flexibility in doing so.

    Instead of school, I sought out my chosen industry's leaders and made myself valuable to them.

    That's what those alumni networks are for. I'm referring to the informal ones built upon school based friendships - not the 'thanks for graduating/send us money for new uniforms' booster orgs.
  • jlh49jlh49 Posts: 3,127 Officer
    Actually, the talent/ability often overlooked is a person's people skills. I have interacted with many highly educated people with unbelievable academic achievements whom struggled when communicating with others. It does not matter what you know, if you are unable to communicate it successfully to others.
  • bswivbswiv Posts: 7,873 Admiral
    jlh49 wrote: »
    Actually, the talent/ability often overlooked is a person's people skills. I have interacted with many highly educated people with unbelievable academic achievements whom struggled when communicating with others. It does not matter what you know, if you are unable to communicate it successfully to others.


    ENGINEERS!!!!!!! SORRY WE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:wink
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    greggl wrote: »
    Absolutely.

    I was able to foster some creat connections withing multiple alumni networks. Not being 'inside the system', I think I had more flexibility in doing so.

    Instead of school, I sought out my chosen industry's leaders and made myself valuable to them.

    That's what those alumni networks are for. I'm referring to the informal ones built upon school based friendships - not the 'thanks for graduating/send us money for new uniforms' booster orgs.

    they are for leaching off of ?
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    In every job I have worked people with the higher education and credentials within the field get paid more. Even a simple lifeguard makes less than a lifeguard with a WSI (water safety instructor) card.

    I said within the field. Nurses with a 2 year degree make more then social workers or lab techs with 4 year degrees.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    cpr wrote: »
    In every job I have worked people with the higher education and credentials within the field get paid more. Even a simple lifeguard makes less than a lifeguard with a WSI (water safety instructor) card.

    I said within the field. Nurses with a 2 year degree make more then social workers or lab techs with 4 year degrees.


    This is the new socialist mantra...... next thing is, it won’t be good enough for community college to be free they will have to guarantee the same quality of education as private and state colleges. Think about all the spending the libs can do in this area, in exchange for votes.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Finfinder wrote: »
    they are for leaching off of ?

    No. it's an opportunity to mix up institutional thought with radical, outside solutions.

    Schools attempt to teach the 'now' rather than the 'next'.
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