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Cuba... I was wrong

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  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    Is that correct?

    In your never ending pursuit of "enemies", you assert our federal government has some nonexistent "right" to just pick and choose the leadership of foreign countries, like selecting tomatoes at the grocery store.

    Yet, you lovers of the constantly at war, "Empire of America", never mention precisely where in the constitution of the United States of the America our federal government gains that priviledge.

    Do tell.

    Perhaps you trouble making globe trotting neocon interventionists should spend more time "studying" less complex things, such as grammar, and invest less of your time advocating that our nation should continue to adhere to policies which have so spectacularly failed to achieve the results that were sought.

    As for the American people, they have twice now wisely punished and rejected the GOP in presidential elections because of the GOP's disastrous mishandling of foreign affairs along with the moderate economic depression which began during Bush the Juvenile's regrettable tenure.

    It is not their wisdom that needs to be questioned.


    wow, very well said.... and well written, too. :)
  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,666 Captain
    rickc wrote: »
    Looks like the Castro's know when American money floods Cuba capitalism will take hold and they will lose all their control.

    Making ludicris demands is a sure way to keep us out.

    this is very possible, to sabotage the dialogue. they've done this before, hence Mariel in 1980 when Carter was negotiating an opening, in 1994 and then the shooting of the US aircraft killing 3 americans when Clinton offered full diplomatic relations.

    Cuba is in hot water, though. Its sponsor, Venezuela, is going down the drain with the fall of oil prices and cannot sustain Cuba anymore. Cuban turned to Iran and China and they said F You. So now it is turning to its hated neighbor to the north for help ----> the American taxpayer. Yes, you and me.

    And here's the rub. who owns a majority of the means of production in Cuba, particularly the tourism industry? The Cuban generals and their families. so the money spent there goes directly into the pockets of the military, the ones that abhor the U.S. i dont know about you, but i am not giving my money to Cuban generals, at least not voluntarily.


  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,125 Admiral
    Schmidty wrote: »
    NO!

    I don't think that you do 'see" at all.

    We now live in a country of semi illiterates who seem to be mucking up just about everything under the sun.

    Ever take the Naturalization Tests? Would it surprise you that most Americans wouldn't pass it taking it without studying?

    ....and then some wouldn't pass even after that?

    And you want to talk to me about "failed policies" ?

    The greatest "failed policy" that this country ever failed on was are inability to instruct our young in the schools in the past 50 years to know the difference between right and wrong.

    ...and giving back places like "Gitmo"......like accepting the ghetto trash that rules Cuba is simply "WRONG".


    If you don't think so then you are telling me that you disagree with giving those people even basic human rights....

    we gave back the Panama canal and I think it was more valuable than gitmo, and we still accept Cuban trash as long as they float over here and touch land, we have no way of knowing what kind of past they had over there( note not all floaters are trash)
    Legal Travel To Cuba- The Time is Now
    http://insightcuba.com/
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    we gave back the Panama canal and I think it was more valuable than gitmo, and we still accept Cuban trash as long as they float over here and touch land, we have no way of knowing what kind of past they had over there( note not all floaters are trash)
    Legal Travel To Cuba- The Time is Now
    http://insightcuba.com/

    Hey Dragon.....

    take a look at this once again....

    "...and giving back places like "Gitmo"......like accepting the ghetto trash that rules Cuba is simply "WRONG".
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    Schmidty wrote: »
    Hey Dragon.....

    take a look at this once again....

    "...and giving back places like "Gitmo"......like accepting the ghetto trash that rules Cuba is simply "WRONG".

    how about we send in Seal Team 6

    or the old guys Sylvester & Arnold and team
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    rickc wrote: »
    how about we send in Seal Team 6

    or the old guys Sylvester & Arnold and team

    I don't know Rick....:grin

    I'm pretty sure I can take Fidel....if you put a whuppin' on Raul....
  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,666 Captain
    we gave back the Panama canal and I think it was more valuable than gitmo, and we still accept Cuban trash as long as they float over here and touch land, we have no way of knowing what kind of past they had over there( note not all floaters are trash)
    Legal Travel To Cuba- The Time is Now
    http://insightcuba.com/

    i dont know what your trip is about calling cubans trash. do you feel the same way about americans? germans? are you trying to provoke me or its just your salty nature?


  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,813 AG
    Why should we have a different policy, Cuba, China, Russia, Vietnam, etc - all one in the same.
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,125 Admiral
    alacrity wrote: »
    i dont know what your trip is about calling cubans trash. do you feel the same way about americans? germans? are you trying to provoke me or its just your salty nature?

    are you implying that none of the cubans that make it here are not criminals/trash, how many of the ones that floated over during the 80`s were straight out of the prisons?
    also note I said not all were trash but some are and yes some Germans as well as Americans are trash but once again I said not all are
  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,666 Captain
    are you implying that none of the cubans that make it here are not criminals/trash, how many of the ones that floated over during the 80`s were straight out of the prisons?
    also note I said not all were trash but some are and yes some Germans as well as Americans are trash but once again I said not all are

    i would not imply that because i am not stupid or naive. however, the comment is irrelevant and it is something you like to utter


  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 7,060 Admiral
    are you implying that none of the cubans that make it here are not criminals/trash, how many of the ones that floated over during the 80`s were straight out of the prisons?
    also note I said not all were trash but some are and yes some Germans as well as Americans are trash but once again I said not all are

    Dragon Bait, you know full and well Castro emptied his prisons and insane asylums because Carter was a pu--y. I grew up in Key West and as an adult worked for 25 years in Miami and I can tell you that most Cubans are as fine as people that you will ever meet. Sure ther are bad eggs but that is with every culture.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    They have. They've built a few resorts for their tourists. Things take time. Nothing happens overnight. Start with tourism, and grow from there.

    Your question makes me think you're another one of 'em... one of those black/white, on/off, one/zero guys who thinks everything happens instantaneously. I'll add you to my list. :)

    they have no money
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    are you implying that none of the cubans that make it here are not criminals/trash, how many of the ones that floated over during the 80`s were straight out of the prisons?
    also note I said not all were trash but some are and yes some Germans as well as Americans are trash but once again I said not all are

    I think he was implying that, this is the point in an argument that a LWNJ would pull out the race card...., I could be wrong ................... crickets
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,125 Admiral
    alacrity wrote: »
    i would not imply that because i am not stupid or naive. however, the comment is irrelevant and it is something you like to utter

    we should end wet foot dry foot and let the Cubans jump through the same hoops as everyone else to insure there are no bad elements floating over
  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,813 AG
    let the Cubans jump through the same hoops as everyone else
    This should have been the policy from the start..
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    They have. They've built a few resorts for their tourists. Things take time. Nothing happens overnight. Start with tourism, and grow from there.

    Your question makes me think you're another one of 'em... one of those black/white, on/off, one/zero guys who thinks everything happens instantaneously. I'll add you to my list. :)
    Resorts in 3rd world countries?
    It takes awhile?

    B.S.
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    Resorts in 3rd world countries?
    It takes awhile?

    B.S.

    So we can change them over night?
  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,813 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    So we can change them over night?
    We don't need to change them..
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    dstockwell wrote: »
    We don't need to change them..

    I didn't say we did. I'll rephrase what I said.

    So, change will occur over night? If, big IF, we had normalized relations with Cuba the past 50+ years, Cuba would be a different country today.... more like us, no?
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    You mean like China and Vietnam?

    Again and again and again... things take TIME TIME TIME TIME TIME

    Just think how potentially free and open Cuba could be today if we hadn't had 50 years of these ridiculous laws banning Americans from showing the Cuban people what free commerce is all about.

    Perhaps your not seeing the 800 pound gorilla?
    We(USA) are the only country on the planet that has had a embargo on Cuba.
    Europe, Japan, Canada and all the other countries have had open access to Cuba. They have had the TIME! Where are the benefits?
    Why are there no Toyota dealers? Why hasn't Siemans, Bayer, Mitsubishi and all the other companies gone there?
    They have had 40+ years to own that market.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    Some of us are just tired of hearing about the promotion of freedom in this country while the Government can tell me where I can and can not go OUTSIDE of its borders. That should be my decision.

    That an Elian Gonzalez fatigue, that was worse than the OJ trial.

    I'm with you on this, you should be free to travel where you wish.
    But one small caveat,,, when you go to a country like Cuba or N. Korea your on your own, don't expect the US government to drop everything and bail you out when you get in trouble there.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    circus act wrote: »
    Have you spent much time in Cuba?

    No. But I would love to go, I hear the fishing is outstanding.
    But under the current circumstances, no I will not be going to support a Communist government and two of the most vile men in the world with my money.
  • NOLE66NOLE66 Posts: 1,630 Officer
    mustang190 wrote: »
    As I and I'm sure some others have said,,
    If Cuba is this economic hotbed why hasn't Europe or Japan or for that matter Canada invested there? Why are there no VW, Mercedes or Toyota plants or dealerships there?
    No grocery chains? No European equivalent of Home Depot?


    Cuba is a third world crap hole rife with disease, ignorance and poverty. That's why
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Not to mention old cars held together with bondo and bailing wire.
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    Much of Cuba would look like Miami Beach in 10 years if they turned US developers loose

    as long as the Castros keep a lid on it it won't happen

    sooner or later the money will win out

    will that Cuba be better for the Cuban people?
  • circus actcircus act Posts: 230 Officer
    mustang190 wrote: »
    don't expect the US government to drop everything and bail you out when you get in trouble there

    Or, you could just go to the US Embassy in Havana.

    And the fishing isn't all that great, fyi.
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    mustang190 wrote: »
    I'm with you on this, you should be free to travel where you wish.
    But one small caveat,,, when you go to a country like Cuba or N. Korea your on your own, don't expect the US government to drop everything and bail you out when you get in trouble there.

    Say whut? If I got in trouble here, my government wouldn't bail me out, they would do just the opposite.

    But my government should come to my assistance if they felt I was wronged. I take it you were against saving Captain Phillips as well then.
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    Plan Sea wrote: »
    Say whut? If I got in trouble here, my government wouldn't bail me out, they would do just the opposite.

    But my government should come to my assistance if they felt I was wronged. I take it you were against saving Captain Phillips as well then.

    Come on dude, Captain Phillips was on a US flagged container ship in international waters. It was our duty and responsibility to rid that ship of pirates and rescue him and the crew.

    A better example is our efforts to gain release of Matthew Miller and Kenneth Bae from N. Korea.
  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Come on dude, Captain Phillips was on a US flagged container ship in international waters. It was our duty and responsibility to rid that ship of pirates and rescue him and the crew.

    A better example is our efforts to gain release of Matthew Miller and Kenneth Bae from N. Korea.

    Come on what? I was for them saving a private citizen that was working for a private corporation with our military assets. Why should a private company pay a ransom when we got SEAL team 6.

    Made for a great movie as well.
  • circus actcircus act Posts: 230 Officer
    I was in a MEDPIC class with a mate off of that boat when the piracy took place...crazy stuff. Got to see the "real time" updates.

    The movie is definitely one version of what happened. Be interesting to know what actually happened.
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