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Cuba... I was wrong

conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 7,045 Admiral
I should have listened to my Cuban friends that said to not trust Castro, even or especially Raul.

I truly believed that a change in policy might help the people of Cuba and end the tyranny.

It looks like Raul Castro has already started making demands of the US.
He wants us to give up Guantanamo and pay reparations before any changes will be made.
I was suckered in.

I hope Obama also realizes he was suckered too before it is too late.

“Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
― Ernest Hemingway

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Replies

  • snippersnipper Posts: 524 Officer
    obama dreams he could be a dictator like any of the communist regimes
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    As I and I'm sure some others have said,,
    If Cuba is this economic hotbed why hasn't Europe or Japan or for that matter Canada invested there? Why are there no VW, Mercedes or Toyota plants or dealerships there?
    No grocery chains? No European equivalent of Home Depot?
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    As I and I'm sure some others have said,,
    If Cuba is this economic hotbed why hasn't Europe or Japan or for that matter Canada invested there? Why are there no VW, Mercedes or Toyota plants or dealerships there?
    No grocery chains? No European equivalent of Home Depot?

    They have. They've built a few resorts for their tourists. Things take time. Nothing happens overnight. Start with tourism, and grow from there.

    Your question makes me think you're another one of 'em... one of those black/white, on/off, one/zero guys who thinks everything happens instantaneously. I'll add you to my list. :)
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Tourism??
    If you notice those so called resorts are enclosed. I'm sure you think that tourism is Florida's only business/industry?
    Now answer the question.
    And where are these Cubans going to get the money to buy that new F150?
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Tourism??
    If you notice those so called resorts are enclosed. I'm sure you think that tourism is Florida's only business/industry?
    Now answer the question.
    And where are these Cubans going to get the money to buy that new F150?

    What do you mean 'enclosed'?

    Where did you get the money to buy an F150? Did you buy an F150 when you first started working at age 15/16? Or, did you work a few or many years to save the money before buying your first F150?

    In time dude... in time. Things take time. Capiche?
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    here's one of the resorts in Cuba... not American owned.



    Doesn't look 'enclosed' to me.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Maybe you do not understand the word "investment"?
    As long as people like the Castro's control things smart money will stay out.
    The payoffs and bribes are enormous.
    Yes there are resorts there and have been for over 30 years. Now find out how much of those tourist dollars, euros, yen etc. have gone into the local economy. The Castro's and their cronies are the rich ones. As it always is under communism.
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    As it always is under communism.

    You mean like China and Vietnam?

    Again and again and again... things take TIME TIME TIME TIME TIME

    Just think how potentially free and open Cuba could be today if we hadn't had 50 years of these ridiculous laws banning Americans from showing the Cuban people what free commerce is all about.
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    "Raul"...

    Is now DEMANDING that Gitmo be given back and that the trade embargo be stopped immediately.
  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,666 Captain
    Schmidty wrote: »
    "Raul"...

    Is now DEMANDING that Gitmo be given back and that the trade embargo be stopped immediately.

    he is also demanding that the US pay to Cuba the economic damage that it has allegedly suffered because of the embargo. this is nothing more than a move to hedge against the 5,911 US certified claims that amount to over $6.4 billion resulting from the illegal confiscation of property in the early 1960s. the claimants are large multinational industrial entities such as the old ITT to simple people who bought land in Cuba in order to retire there. this administration is not beyond screwing over the US certified claimants to cut a deal with the Castros.


  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    alacrity wrote: »
    he is also demanding that the US pay to Cuba the economic damage that it has allegedly suffered because of the embargo. this is nothing more than a move to hedge against the 5,911 US certified claims that amount to over $6.4 billion resulting from the illegal confiscation of property in the early 1960s. the claimants are large multinational industrial entities such as the old ITT to simple people who bought land in Cuba in order to retire there. this administration is not beyond screwing over the US certified claimants to cut a deal with the Castros.

    You are 100% correctamundo amigo!

    Maybe we should just "annex" a big section of cuba and call it even?:rotflmao
  • $$$ are gonna be a wash. The scary part is Obama will probably give back Gitmo!
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    Other than the fact we've "always been there"... always being in our lifetimes.... what right do we actually have to keep it? I'm not suggesting we give it back... we have too much invested there and it's strategically important.... I'm simply asking all you international and maritime law experts what our legal right is to keep it.

    Guantanamo Bay Naval Base is located on 45 square miles (120 km2) of land and water at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, which the United States leased for use as a coaling and naval station in the Cuban–American Treaty of 1903 (for $2,000 until 1934, for $4,085 since 1938 until now). The base is on the shore of Guantánamo Bay at the southeastern end of Cuba. It is the oldest overseas U.S. Naval Base. Since 1959 the Cuban government has consistently protested against the US presence on Cuban soil and called it illegal under modern international law, since the military base was imposed on Cuba by force. At the United Nations Human Rights Council in 2013, Cuba's Foreign Minister demanded the US return the base and the "usurped territory" occupied since the US invasion of Cuba at the turn of the 20th century.
  • David BDavid B Posts: 1,907 Captain
    We need to offer it back to the Spain with an apology letter. Maybe they can straighten out the entire mess.

    Let me say that I firmly believe that not long after giving Gitmo back to Cuba, you will see a Russian/Chinese installation in its place.

    Since 1959 the Cuban government has consistently protested against the US presence on Cuban soil and called it illegal under modern international law, since the military base was imposed on Cuba by force. At the United Nations Human Rights Council in 2013, Cuba's Foreign Minister demanded the US return the base and the "usurped territory" occupied since the US invasion of Cuba at the turn of the 20th century.

    Fidel should have fought a little harder and took it. Guess he didn't have it in him.
    Increasing MMGW or climate change, one twist off at a time.
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    David B wrote: »
    Let me say that I firmly believe that not long after giving Gitmo back to Cuba, you will see a Russian/Chinese installation in its place.

    If Cuba wants it back bad enough, they can come get it. They can try anyway.
  • David BDavid B Posts: 1,907 Captain
    That's just it. We held the keys before the Red loving brothers took possession of the entire island. Seems kind of ironic that they say we shouldn't have it. My best friend's Grandfather would have loved to get his ranch back before he died here in isolation from so many of his friends and family.

    Maybe when they consider giving back all that they took in the name of the Communist regime, then maybe we can talk about Gitmo. Until then PHHHHHHHHHHHuck em.
    Increasing MMGW or climate change, one twist off at a time.
  • capt louiecapt louie citrus countyPosts: 10,335 Moderator
    I seen a show where Castro said he has never cashed any of the GITMO checks. Kept them in his desk drawer.
    "You'll get your weather"
  • sjm1582002sjm1582002 Posts: 4,364 Captain
    The vast majority of Americans want normal relations with Cuba.

    Just like every single other country on the face of this earth has had for years and years and years.

    Real conservatives also do not like an Imperial America telling them where they may not travel too.
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,120 Admiral
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Other than the fact we've "always been there"... always being in our lifetimes.... what right do we actually have to keep it? I'm not suggesting we give it back... we have too much invested there and it's strategically important.... I'm simply asking all you international and maritime law experts what our legal right is to keep it.
    .[/I]

    Inquiring minds want to know
  • circus actcircus act Posts: 230 Officer
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Tourism??
    If you notice those so called resorts are enclosed. I'm sure you think that tourism is Florida's only business/industry?
    Now answer the question.
    And where are these Cubans going to get the money to buy that new F150?

    Have you spent much time in Cuba?
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    The vast majority of Americans want normal relations with Cuba.

    Just like every single other country on the face of this earth has had for years and years and years.

    Real conservatives also do not like an Imperial America telling them where they may not travel too.

    Sure they do......

    I bet that "the vast majority" of them also can't point Cuba out on a map, can't tell you what their major export is, can't tell you what the "Bay of Pigs" is, ...Ad infinitum...

    ...but yet.... somehow....someway...they expect whatever they think and say to be relevant....
  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,666 Captain
    maybe the way for obama to shut down gitmo is to give back to cuba. that may be his strategy, i dont put it past him.

    gitmo has not belonged to the US and it is not US property; it is leased. it belongs to Cuba. having said that, i dont see how the US relinquishes it, nor should they. it is a very important base for many reasons, including narcotrafficking interdiction.

    if gitmo is given back, i agree that the russians or chinese will take it, in a heartbeat.

    agreed that opinion polls indicate that a majority of people want normal relations with cuba. a majority of people also voted for obama. that tells me that many people are ignorant, especially when it comes to cuba. 99.9999999% of americans do not understand foreign policy when it comes to Cuba and other nations, so just because it is popular does not make it a correct point of view.


  • alacrityalacrity Posts: 2,666 Captain
    Schmidty wrote: »
    Sure they do......

    I bet that "the vast majority" of them also can't point Cuba out on a map, can't tell you what their major export is, can't tell you what the "Bay of Pigs" is, ...Ad infinitum...

    ...but yet.... somehow....someway...they expect whatever they think and say to be relevant....

    those opinion polls usually g like this. the US has had an embargo against Cuba for 50 years. do you think it is time to normalize relations with Cuba. what do you think joe and jan smith from small town america is going to say? um, yes, i think so.


  • Plan SeaPlan Sea Posts: 5,453 Officer
    Some of us are just tired of hearing about the promotion of freedom in this country while the Government can tell me where I can and can not go OUTSIDE of its borders. That should be my decision.

    That an Elian Gonzalez fatigue, that was worse than the OJ trial.
  • sjm1582002sjm1582002 Posts: 4,364 Captain
    Schmidty wrote: »
    Sure they do......

    I bet that "the vast majority" of them also can't point Cuba out on a map, can't tell you what their major export is, can't tell you what the "Bay of Pigs" is, ...Ad infinitum...

    ...but yet.... somehow....someway...they expect whatever they think and say to be relevant....

    Oh, I see.

    Kind of like those who wish to cling to the current failed policies and unsuccessful strategies, which have been in place the past several decades, want to be considered credible?

    You can put the USA's Cuban policy in the dumpster along side the government's "war on poverty" and its "war on drugs".
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    Oh, I see.

    Kind of like those who wish to cling to the current failed policies and unsuccessful strategies, which have been in place the past several decades, want to be considered credible?

    You can put the USA's Cuban policy in the dumpster along side the government's "war on poverty" and its "war on drugs".

    NO!

    I don't think that you do 'see" at all.

    We now live in a country of semi illiterates who seem to be mucking up just about everything under the sun.

    Ever take the Naturalization Tests? Would it surprise you that most Americans wouldn't pass it taking it without studying?

    ....and then some wouldn't pass even after that?

    And you want to talk to me about "failed policies" ?

    The greatest "failed policy" that this country ever failed on was are inability to instruct our young in the schools in the past 50 years to know the difference between right and wrong.

    ...and giving back places like "Gitmo"......like accepting the ghetto trash that rules Cuba is simply "WRONG".

    If you don't think so then you are telling me that you disagree with giving those people even basic human rights....
  • Baits OutBaits Out Posts: 12,331 AG
    circus act wrote: »
    Have you spent much time in Cuba?


    My British wife has been vacationing in Cuba for several years and thinks it is a great country.

    Of course she also thinks the UK leads the world.

    We no longer talk about such things.

    Dumb as a bucket of bricks!

    JEESH!

    A southeast Florida laid back beach bum and volunteer bikini assessor who lives on island time. 
  • sjm1582002sjm1582002 Posts: 4,364 Captain
    Schmidty wrote: »
    NO!

    I don't think that you do 'see" at all.

    We now live in a country of semi illiterates who seem to be mucking up just about everything under the sun.

    Ever take the Naturalization Tests? Would it surprise you that most Americans wouldn't pass it taking it without studying?

    ....and then some wouldn't pass even after that?

    And you want to talk to me about "failed policies" ?

    The greatest "failed policy" that this country ever failed on was are inability to instruct our young in the schools in the past 50 years to know the difference between right and wrong.

    ...and giving back places like "Gitmo"......like accepting the ghetto trash that rules Cuba is simply "WRONG".

    If you don't think so then you are telling me that you disagree with giving those people even basic human rights....

    Is that correct?

    In your never ending pursuit of "enemies", you assert our federal government has some nonexistent "right" to just pick and choose the leadership of foreign countries, like selecting tomatoes at the grocery store.

    Yet, you lovers of the constantly at war, "Empire of America", never mention precisely where in the constitution of the United States of the America our federal government gains that priviledge.

    Do tell.

    Perhaps you trouble making globe trotting neocon interventionists should spend more time "studying" less complex things, such as grammar, and invest less of your time advocating that our nation should continue to adhere to policies which have so spectacularly failed to achieve the results that were sought.

    As for the American people, they have twice now wisely punished and rejected the GOP in presidential elections because of the GOP's disastrous mishandling of foreign affairs along with the moderate economic depression which began during Bush the Juvenile's regrettable tenure.

    It is not their wisdom that needs to be questioned.
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    Looks like the Castro's know when American money floods Cuba capitalism will take hold and they will lose all their control.

    Making ludicris demands is a sure way to keep us out.
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