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Fishing Rights Alliance (FRA) requests removal of Fisheries Management Officials

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  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    One day? Just DOUBLED our season.

    Pretty good work by any standard.

    you can't be serious...... you truly are ........ oh never mind.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    I'm as serious as the Feds' are in determining the rec season length - it has gone FAR past ridiculous and underscores the need to put our fisheries management into the hands of the states.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    I'm as serious as the Feds' are in determining the rec season length - it has gone FAR past ridiculous and underscores the need to put our fisheries management into the hands of the states.

    Apparently, you didn't listen to the Council meeting. Since it was so close to home I drove down and watched it. The states went on record at this last meeting as having not reached an allocation decision among themselves, either for regional management or the state plan they supposedly unanimously support.

    The options before them are, on one hand, favorable to the western Gulf, which the East won't approve, and the other is favorable to the eastern Gulf, which the West won't approve). Mississippi is caught between a rock and a hard place. Now, that is playing regional management at the Council level.

    If you go with the new proposal for a state-run red snapper fishery, then you get AL-FL (2 votes) pitted against TX-LA (2 votes) with MS caught in the middle.

    Good luck with that idea.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    The best the States can hope for is, equal 9 miles for all states alike. Red Snapper being pulled out of M/S ACT and out of Federal control of quota in there state waters out to 9 miles. The States will all be responsible for stock assessments and quota numbers and seasons for there state waters. Thats it, and they will be very lucky if they get that. I hope they get it, maybe the first step in getting more down the road. This will only really benefit Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. I really doubt anyone really wants to work with Texas since they have been mis-reporting all of there data for decades and can not be trusted.

    All Federal fisheries will work towards fully accountable and sustainable management plans, Since the CFH already has our plan ready to go, and no HILTON not the Panama City hack of the real plan with equal allocation for all CFH across the gulf in a 3 tier system (6packs, mid multi, and big multi) the 6 pack in Alabama will get the same amount of fish as the 6 pack in Texas, and the same multi in Destin will get the same amount of fish as the same size multi in Mississippi, ect... a plan that will pass a referendum if it comes to that, I would say we will have our plan in place first. The council already has the real CFH plan in there hands as we speak.

    The Rest of the private recs? Who knows if there leadership CCA, RFA, ETC... will ever come together on there federal FMP, who knows how long it will take for them to have full access again. The council will probably depend on us to help develop theres too. Hence I have two Federally permitted boats and don't care to fish in over fished state waters none of the State seasons apply to me.

    We lost a 8/8 split in council on pulling CFH out of Amendment 39 regional management and Roy didn't vote, so I feel we will get this done at probably the August meeting since all the Federally permitted boats will be fishing a decent 45 day federal season this year, we will not have no time to go to Key West, it will probably happen in Aug.

    Like it or not, thats whats real.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    The best the states could hope for would be that congress doesn't reauthorize the M/S Act (which they sure don't seem to be in any hurry to do by the way), about 2/3 NOAA's budget for fisheries gets given to someone else to do the job they have been failing at, and that those who have hedged all their bets on the great catch shares get rich scheme wind up with a basket full of broken eggs.:grin
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    The best the states could hope for would be that congress doesn't reauthorize the M/S Act (which they sure don't seem to be in any hurry to do by the way), about 2/3 NOAA's budget for fisheries gets given to someone else to do the job they have been failing at, and that those who have hedged all their bets on the great catch shares get rich scheme wind up with a basket full of broken eggs.:grin


    Well can't get much worse than 9 days, whatever happens.
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    That Bradley Byrne is a good man. You all are lucky to have such a great recreational fishing advocate in south Alabama.
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    Had a good conversation with congressman miller myself yesterday. Saw him after easter services in the church nursery.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    markw4321 wrote: »
    That Bradley Byrne is a good man. You all are lucky to have such a great recreational fishing advocate in south Alabama.

    He is a good man, he took my son on the floor and let him vote for him last year when I we went up to DC. We are just working on two different things. If the states take over the fishery we will then work with the states. The Alabama guys have told us that they will give us the same thing we want now. They like the idea, the flexibility of the business model we presented. The State of Alabama was fully on board with our EFP that passed in the Council, but was declined by the SOC.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Miller and my dad were friends. We are from Jay where I think his wife's family is from. I saw and talked to him last year at a little dinner in town. He is also a good man. They know my brother Sam well, he is a lobbyist in Tally.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    The meeting was close to Tampa/St. Pete/Largo?

    I thought it was in Biloxi?

    BubbaII wrote: »
    Apparently, you didn't listen to the Council meeting. Since it was so close to home I drove down and watched it. The states went on record at this last meeting as having not reached an allocation decision among themselves, either for regional management or the state plan they supposedly unanimously support.

    The options before them are, on one hand, favorable to the western Gulf, which the East won't approve, and the other is favorable to the eastern Gulf, which the West won't approve). Mississippi is caught between a rock and a hard place. Now, that is playing regional management at the Council level.

    If you go with the new proposal for a state-run red snapper fishery, then you get AL-FL (2 votes) pitted against TX-LA (2 votes) with MS caught in the middle.

    Good luck with that idea.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    He is a good man, he took my son on the floor and let him vote for him last year when I we went up to DC. We are just working on two different things. If the states take over the fishery we will then work with the states. The Alabama guys have told us that they will give us the same thing we want now. They like the idea, the flexibility of the business model we presented. The State of Alabama was fully on board with our EFP that passed in the Council, but was declined by the SOC.

    Then you should have no problem supporting the GSRSMA then, correct?
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Apparently, you didn't listen to the Council meeting. Since it was so close to home I drove down and watched it. The states went on record at this last meeting as having not reached an allocation decision among themselves, either for regional management or the state plan they supposedly unanimously support.

    The options before them are, on one hand, favorable to the western Gulf, which the East won't approve, and the other is favorable to the eastern Gulf, which the West won't approve). Mississippi is caught between a rock and a hard place. Now, that is playing regional management at the Council level.

    If you go with the new proposal for a state-run red snapper fishery, then you get AL-FL (2 votes) pitted against TX-LA (2 votes) with MS caught in the middle.

    Good luck with that idea.

    I don't believe you understood what was said at the meeting Bubba.

    All 5 Gulf states had finally reached an allocation among the states for Amendment 39 as Amendment 40 was passed. NMFS shared some of the resulting days that could be expected based on some of those allocations at the meeting last week.

    The approach that the GSRSMA contemplates provides greater flexibility and does not require that type of allocation split. It truly sets forth decision making at the state level based on the biology of the fish off of that state.

    You are making assertions that are simply untrue Bubba.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    I thought it was in Biloxi?

    I think we had this discussion in that thread that got locked. My IP is redirected, I'm just too lazy to change it periodically. You have no idea where I'm located, other than my statement that "since it was close by, I went". In fact, if you track a lot of my statements, you'll see a pattern that says I'm located in the northern Gulf. So where am I living now?
    You are making assertions that are simply untrue Bubba.

    When the minutes of the council meeting are available for the next briefing book I'll come back and post what the FL state representative stated, and what the LA state representative inferred, when asked directly by one of the MS appointees.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Then you should have no problem supporting the GSRSMA then, correct?

    Nope. I will fight to my last dollar keeping my Federal permits. Its the one thing that CCA can not infiltrate.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    I think we had this discussion in that thread that got locked. My IP is redirected, I'm just too lazy to change it periodically. You have no idea where I'm located, other than my statement that "since it was close by, I went". In fact, if you track a lot of my statements, you'll see a pattern that says I'm located in the northern Gulf. So where am I living now?

    When the minutes of the council meeting are available for the next briefing book I'll come back and post what the FL state representative stated, and what the LA state representative inferred, when asked directly by one of the MS appointees.

    I talked personally with a Gulf Council member and he intimated that they had agreed upon an allocation division for Am 39 and that the GSRSMA would be based on the biomass of fish off of each state, so your assertion that they would be dividing a federal quota is incorrect.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    Nope. I will fight to my last dollar keeping my Federal permits. Its the one thing that CCA can not infiltrate.

    So on one hand Ard, you claim that you can get what you want because your state managers have told you that they would do the catch share thing, yet you do not trust them, eh? The only entity doing any infiltrating is your Environmental Defense Fund.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    In fact, if you track a lot of my statements, you'll see a pattern .............
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    I talked personally with a Gulf Council member and he intimated that they had agreed upon an allocation division for Am 39 and that the GSRSMA would be based on the biomass of fish off of each state, so your assertion that they would be dividing a federal quota is incorrect.

    Then I guess its your word against mine until the Council minutes are available in June to copy/paste direct statements made on the record.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    So on one hand Ard, you claim that you can get what you want because your state managers have told you that they would do the catch share thing, yet you do not trust them, eh? The only entity doing any infiltrating is your Environmental Defense Fund.


    You can never really trust anyone can you? Especially a division of the state that can have people put in place by CCA lobbying. We all know the CCA is the strongest at the state level, what we are told now can change tomorrow with the states, all it takes is the right man getting a job. Take for example Florida, they have done nothing at all to help the CFH in there state, keeping state waters open, knowing that its taking away fishing days from the Federally permitted boats. I think I will fight to keep my Federal permits, heck in a couple of years we will be fishing just like the commercial guys right? 365 days of access. Not willing to throw 7 years of hard work down the drain for a promise we will take care of you. Oh and there will be no injunction to Am 40, do a little more research on the law.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    You can never really trust anyone can you? Especially a division of the state that can have people put in place by CCA lobbying.

    Well is it all lobbyists you despise, or just those who don't work with you or for you?

    I am sure many here would love to hear your true beliefs on lobbyist and the practice in general, please feel free to elaborate.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Well is it all lobbyists you despise, or just those who don't work with you or for you?

    I am sure many here would love to hear your true beliefs on lobbyist and the practice in general, please feel free to elaborate.[/QUOTE

    In every industry there are Lobbist, my brother is the Lobbiest for the Florida Cattlemans Association. It's part of the game of business and has been around as long as there has been business. I lobby or work for my business, industry and livelihood. Groups such as CCA, RFA lobby for the Rec guys. I'm fine with that, all part of the deal. It doesn't mean I need to put myself at the mercy of a lobby group that has a strong hold at the state level. That would not make much sense.
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    You can never really trust anyone can you? Especially a division of the state that can have people put in place by CCA lobbying. We all know the CCA is the strongest at the state level, what we are told now can change tomorrow with the states, all it takes is the right man getting a job. Take for example Florida, they have done nothing at all to help the CFH in there state, keeping state waters open, knowing that its taking away fishing days from the Federally permitted boats. I think I will fight to keep my Federal permits, heck in a couple of years we will be fishing just like the commercial guys right? 365 days of access. Not willing to throw 7 years of hard work down the drain for a promise we will take care of you. Oh and there will be no injunction to Am 40, do a little more research on the law.


    Tom

    Florida has a lot of state permitted cfh that are providing access to the gulf fishery out to 9 miles for non boat owning u.s. citizens.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    markw4321 wrote: »
    Tom

    Florida has a lot of state permitted cfh that are providing access to the gulf fishery out to 9 miles for non boat owning u.s. citizens.

    Right, Right, most of them small and need to stay inside 9 miles, never said they didn't. I was referring to the 500 or so in most cases larger boats with federal permits that Florida has repeatedly and deliberately taken access from. Do you actually expect these guys to jump on board with a state management plan? I don't think so.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    Oh and how much access does any of us have this year on Triggerfish? That's right none! Why? Floridas year around trigger season last year on a fish that's in bad shape, don't test me on that been fishing for Triggers in the gulf 30 years, I know that they need help. They do this to an overfished species with a federal payback provision and you all tell me that the states know best how to manage a fishery? Thanks State of Florida, thank goodness they went complaint this year and shut the trigger season off so maybe we will have a season next year. Was it worth it?
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    The meeting was close to Tampa/St. Pete/Largo?

    I thought it was in Biloxi?

    Well, after I went into my software and opened it up to random selection, I did have San Jose, CA as an IP; now its Torrence, CA. Want me to turn off random IP selection and just go back to Tampa Bay? Which was chosen for a reason?

    Do you not understand IP masking?

    on topic, I'll copy the council minutes where that pretty blonde FL state rep said they had no agreement.
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    Right, Right, most of them small and need to stay inside 9 miles, never said they didn't. I was referring to the 500 or so in most cases larger boats with federal permits that Florida has repeatedly and deliberately taken access from. Do you actually expect these guys to jump on board with a state management plan? I don't think so.

    I am aware that you were referring to federally permitted boats.

    The issue of state water cfh and recreational anglers on private boats getting kicked to the curb in the current federal management process and the fact that the state of florida has looked out for their access and fishing privileges is an important point for a lot of people including me.
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    Bubba do you really think people give a fuzzy rat's behind about who you are or where you are? Lol
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    State water guys and you are going to get 70 days of access except for triggerfish where the state Mis-managed and left the season open too long costing everyone a triggerfish season this spring and fall. Last year you and the state guide boats had 52 days or red snapper and my customers over 250 charters worth got 9 days access. So sorry you feel kicked to the curb, I know the feeling.
  • HuckleberryHuckleberry Posts: 180 Officer
    markw4321 wrote: »
    Bubba do you really think people give a fuzzy rat's behind about who you are or where you are? Lol

    Hilton does. I'm actually surprised he keeps up with who he really is sometimes. LOL
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