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Did 1994 gill-net vote mislead?

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  • Capt EasyCapt Easy Posts: 203 Officer
    No, I wasn't turned down. But I have stayed abreast of all the "protectionism type regulations" the commercials have gotten pushed thru since around the early eighties.

    In the early eighties commercials and recs both sold fish openly. After a few years of the rec leaders trying every manner to restrict commercial fisherman it became clear that you couldn't have it both ways. You would have to basically declare commercial or rec. These new regulations are the result. Now recs have to be careful about selling their fish but they still do it. :hairraiser
  • surfmansurfman Posts: 6,017 Admiral
    The act of selling your catch makes you a commercial fisherman, that is what the word commercial means, whether you have a license to do so makes you either a commercial poacher or a legitimate business man. Recreational fishermen become commercial the minute they try to sell their catch, period. If they are commercial poachers then they need to be fined!

    As I have stated many times it is the industry that is to blame, thank you Capt. Easy for helping me point that out again, the fish houses used to not give a crap who they bought it from, it is sad if they still cater to poachers today.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • Capt EasyCapt Easy Posts: 203 Officer
    surfman wrote: »
    The act of selling your catch makes you a commercial fisherman, that is what the word commercial means, whether you have a license to do so makes you either a commercial poacher or a legitimate business man. Recreational fishermen become commercial the minute they try to sell their catch, period. If they are commercial poachers then they need to be fined!

    As I have stated many times it is the industry that is to blame, thank you Capt. Easy for helping me point that out again, the fish houses used to not give a crap who they bought it from, it is sad if they still cater to poachers today.

    Yea, that's right when a rec sells his fish he is an undocumented commercial, yea BS. Tell your mommy I said it, you need documents out the **** to be commercial.

    The fish houses cannot afford to by from unlicensed fisherman, to much at stake. They usually sell it to small restaurants or markets and in most cases just keep the excess bag limit in their freezer. I think one of the big reasons snapper has come back so strong is the limited days you undocumented commercials are allowed on the water. :blowkiss
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    You obviously are clueless to the reality of offshore boat sales in the last few years - they are a fraction of what they were just 8-9 years ago.

    Gill nets are legal in federal waters, and limited in state waters. Fish are plentiful.

    Boats are being manufactured at record pace, sales backed by a strong economy. Demand for seafood is high with prices highrr than ever. Bicker and fight amongst yourselves, all the while, the Federal Government chips away at your freedoms....for the people, by the people. The United States of America is over...Roll the credits.
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    Good Lord..I have a major headache..your still standing on the end justifies the means...exploiting red fish as your mascot is a joke, cca's a joke and anyone who drinks their Kool-aid is a fool....off my rant...peace out!
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    Lets guess how long it will take to overturn the amendment..... anything less than 19 1/2 years doesn't count....:rotflmao
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • DeniseDenise Posts: 83 Greenhorn
    Peace out im out
  • gill nettergill netter Posts: 236 Deckhand
    Making money from fishing period makes you commercial. As soon as you accept payment for a charter you are a commetcial fisherman. Regardless what is done to the catch.
  • gill nettergill netter Posts: 236 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    You obviously are clueless to the reality of offshore boat sales in the last few years - they are a fraction of what they were just 8-9 years ago.
    You are crazy...I've been doing glasswork for 15 years, building molds and parts for several notable brands. It is a fact that the beloved Pathfinder brand, along with Cobia and Maverick are being produced at historical volume. Pursuit has had one of the biggest years ever with the introduction of several large offshore cruiserswithin the past 2 years. Sea Vee has several models sold out for at least a year. The Sportsman brand is one of the fsstest growing boat companies right now. I may be clueless to your rediculous fisheries politics, but I do know boats.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    Your claims don't jive with the numbers from the offshore fishing boat industry.
  • gill nettergill netter Posts: 236 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Your claims don't jive with the numbers from the offshore fishing boat industry.

    I said "boats"....not specifically "offshore" boats. Standby for mor info...
  • gill nettergill netter Posts: 236 Deckhand
  • Jack HexterJack Hexter Posts: 5,643 Moderator
    Making money from fishing period makes you commercial. As soon as you accept payment for a charter you are a commetcial fisherman. Regardless what is done to the catch.

    Okay, lets take the CFH portion of portion of the allotted snapper under Amend 40 from the Commercial allotment
  • gill nettergill netter Posts: 236 Deckhand
    Okay, lets take the CFH portion of portion of the allotted snapper under Amend 40 from the Commercial allotment

    Why....charters are commercial. If anything, add to the commercial allotment. Please forgive me if I missed something in your abbreviation.
  • http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/

    For your reading pleasure...

    A look at the details shows a different story.. First compared to Pre-Recession levels, there still remains a large deficit.
    Second, the segment of the boating industry seeing the most gains is not what is seen offshore or even used for fishing
    for that matter. Family recreational boating, particularly entry level (cheap) is where most growth is. Pontoons seem to
    be leading the way. Offshore activity remains well below its peak several years ago, both in marine and boating sales and
    in fishing effort. Inshore trends are not that much up either as to fishing boats, but slightly better than offshore. Much
    of the increases seen are not new entries but replacements not seen during the last several years.

    As to Charter Boats being "Commercial", well as to being regulated as a business that carries passengers, yes they
    are commercial as is the Dolphin watch boats, so as to ensure passenger safety. As far as fishing goes, The boat does not
    retain or sale any of the fish their recreational angler customers catch. The boat does not get regulated for catch min max
    and bag limit, the recreational angler holding the rod does. The quota for the ACL is not for the Captain or Boat, but for the
    Recreational Angling community as a whole. Of coarse AM40 seeks to change that fact, rather it ignores that fact. The
    recreational angler is regulated as to catch not the boat, business or captain. Its no different that if the same angler
    was fishing on a friends, family members or co-workers boat....no difference. Accepting payment for a Charter whether
    for sightseeing of fishing is what it is payment for transportation. The one holding the rod, the one retaining the fish,
    the one for which the recreational regulations pertain to, that's not commercial if the fish are being targeted or harvested for
    private purposes.
  • Okay, lets take the CFH portion of portion of the allotted snapper under Amend 40 from the Commercial allotment
    Why....charters are commercial. If anything, add to the commercial allotment. Please forgive me if I missed something in your abbreviation.

    Stevie Wonder saw that one coming.
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    Instead of reallocation - I say they go with "re-classification" - classify charters as commercial and lump them in with the 51% commercial allocation.
  • Jack HexterJack Hexter Posts: 5,643 Moderator
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Instead of reallocation - I say they go with "re-classification" - classify charters as commercial and lump them in with the 51% commercial allocation.


    And then give them 43% of the commercial allotment, leaving the 49% rec allotment intact for the VAST majority of rec fishermen
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,227 AG
    And then give them 43% of the commercial allotment, leaving the 49% rec allotment intact for the VAST majority of rec fishermen
    Which would give the rec sector a 12 day season...
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Which would give the rec sector a 12 day season...

    Under the current broken Federal system, yes. Of coarse AM40 fixes nothing either. Until
    the NMFS changes data collection methodology or congress changes managerial oversight,
    it will continue the death spiral. Changes in management allowed fish stocks offshore to
    rebuild to levels exceeding historic virgin levels yet access has gone the opposite way. Inshore
    at least on the east coast, changes in regulations, including net restrictions, have allowed
    fish stocks to rebound from near collapse. Today inshore fishing like offshore fish stocks
    are healthy and growing, but unlike federally managed offshore stocks, state managed inshore
    stocks remain healthy and accessible by the sector that generates the greatest economic impact
    for the coastal communities. While commercial fishing is still largely allowed, it is obviously
    restricted in both quantity and gear type. Anyone that supports the Catch Share IFQ mentality
    should actually like the current commercial restrictions. Afterall isn't that the general selling point,
    that a artificially suppressed commercial harvest allows for price control (monopoly economics).

    12 days.....doubt they would even go that far under the current system. Time to get someone
    to manage the fisheries that only get funded if fisheries are healthy AND accessible. That can
    only happen on the state level, as the NMFS gets funded regardless of whether fisheries are
    healthy or not, open or closed.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    I've been doing glasswork for 15 years, building molds and parts for several notable brands.

    Glad to see you transitioned well....they told us the net ban was going to have all gill netters starve to death.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    This is a fast game....are we on amendment 40? or boat sales? ....we started on net ban......
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • gill nettergill netter Posts: 236 Deckhand
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Glad to see you transitioned well....they told us the net ban was going to have all gill netters starve to death.

    Like you really care....ha
    Yall pushed that through and peoples welfare was the last thing on your mind. If at all. I was born into a fishing family. My destiny was ripped from grasp while I was still ripe, so I learned a trade. I build commercial fishing boats when the fish arent biting. My trade serves me well....Thanks??

    I'm still fishing though
    Commercial fishermen will be here forever. Make the law...we'll work around it.

    These restrictions are not about conservation for these people. There are people so deeply enthralled in politics, coupled with the love of fishing, its a hobby to spool this B.S. up. It really has nothing to do with conservation.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,227 AG
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Glad to see you transitioned well....they told us the net ban was going to have all gill netters starve to death.
    and some did...

    You don't get it and you never will... Never.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Posts: 1,893 Captain
    Why did they starve? They were professionals with RS endorsements, right?:huh

    Why didn't they just run right down and pass the "State Contractors Licensing Exam? :shrug

    :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

    :rotflmao :rotflmao :rotflmao
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    and some did...

    You don't get it and you never will... Never.

    Are you saying some did not...and starved?

    If you mean I cannot see both sides of the issue Art...I think you are mistaken.
    If "getting it" is just having blind allegience to one side or the other...then you may be correct.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    Like you really care....ha
    Yall pushed that through and peoples welfare was the last thing on your mind. If at all. I was born into a fishing family. My destiny was ripped from grasp while I was still ripe, so I learned a trade. I build commercial fishing boats when the fish arent biting. My trade serves me well....Thanks??

    I'm still fishing though
    Commercial fishermen will be here forever. Make the law...we'll work around it.

    These restrictions are not about conservation for these people. There are people so deeply enthralled in politics, coupled with the love of fishing, its a hobby to spool this B.S. up. It really has nothing to do with conservation.

    I really am glad you did. I'm also glad you have been able to continue in some capacity.
    I have close family friends who continue to work in commercial fisheries....they are hard workers and that is what it takes just to survive. They are also very fluid in what they do....whatever will pay is what they are doing....U-2 jacks, Pomps, Kings..whatever.

    I think you or anyone else would never had been able to continue without the ban....Florida became the 3rd most populous state with the worst pollution regulation in the SE.
    A burgeoning population of stakeholders and almost no gear restriction would have easily collapsed the fishery.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 13,227 AG
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Are you saying some did not...and starved?

    If you mean I cannot see both sides of the issue Art...I think you are mistaken.
    If "getting it" is just having blind allegience to one side or the other...then you may be correct.
    Starved as in no food? No.
    Starved as in 50-60 years old and stripped of a vocation that you have practiced all your life with really no hope of a decent paying job in your future? Yes.

    I said it before and I'll say it again, net ban was nothing but a resource grab by the recreational sector at the expense of the commercial fishermen.
    That is why I have no sympathy for the rec sector in the current resource allocation for GOM reef fish.

    The chickens have come home to roost indeed.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • :huh I don't see any chickens, Art.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Bill@NSB[email protected] Posts: 207 Deckhand
    Jeez, 19 years later. move on.
    But wait, there's money to be made on harvesting a product we don't have to create, nurture or protect.
    Just take and sell with no regard for replenishment.

    Unfortunately, for you, the commercial lobby resisted attempts to realistically limit their take back in the 90's and recreational fisherman organized, too. Once something reaches a political level all bets are off. Yes, IMHO opinion, the rare manatee and sea turtle images were inflammatory and reached a populace that probably didn't really care about fishing issues either way. Your images of a noble heritage that only existed to feed the masses was equally misleading.

    Nanny nanny boo-boo.
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