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Congressional poll -sector separation

markw4321markw4321 Senior MemberPosts: 171 Officer
Your opinion counts

Despite healthy fish populations, 2014 had the shortest Gulf of Mexico red snapper recreational fishing season in history. The Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council is currently considering a proposal to split the recreational sector between charter (for-hire) and private recreational anglers as a solution. Please select where you fall under this issue:Click on link below and the poll is on right side of page.

http://www.sportsmenslink.org/caucuses/congressional/
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Replies

  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Senior Member Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,893 Captain
    This is over and done already, sorry to tell you.

    Yes they sent a letter from the Caucus to the GMFMC urging them not to pass amendment 40, but it got passed anyway.

    What else is new?
  • markw4321markw4321 Senior Member Posts: 171 Officer
    This is over and done already, sorry to tell you.

    Yes they sent a letter from the Caucus to the GMFMC urging them not to pass amendment 40, but it got passed anyway.

    What else is new?


    kind of the point. The people do not want this.


    - I live in a Gulf state and support this proposal (7.50%)
    - I live in a Gulf state and do not support this proposal (79.62%)
    - I do not live in a Gulf state, but support this proposal (1.92%)
    - I do not live in a Gulf state and do not support this proposal (8.65%)
    - I am unfamiliar with this issue, or have no opinion of the proposal (2.31%)
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Senior Member Posts: 1,595 Captain
    89.81% AGAINST it if you include those that do not live in a Gulf state. There are more people who don't support it and don't even live in a Gulf state than support it and do live in a Gulf state.

    That's pretty telling just how bad of an idea AM 40 really is.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Senior Member Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,893 Captain
    Yes it is very evident the "people" don't like it at all.

    What Congress actually does about reauthorizing Magnuson-Stevens next year will be pretty telling of about how much they really care.

    But all the incumbents sitting on these councils and taking these polls and writing these cute little letters are betting on the fact we will have reelected them by then. Shame on us if we do, we deserve what we get.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Senior Member Posts: 1,595 Captain
    "Council members shall not vote on a Council decision which would have a significant and predictable effect on such financial interest.

    A Council decision shall be considered to have a significant and predictable effect on a financial interest if there is a close causal link between the Council decision and an expected and substantially disproportionate benefit to the financial interest of the affected individual relative to the financial interests of other participants in the same gear type or sector of the fishery”

    When it comes to "expected and substantially disproportionate benefit" 50 CFR 600.235(c). Paragraph (c)(3) states:
    (3) “Expected and substantially disproportionate benefit” means a quantifiable positive or negative impact with regard to a matter likely to affect a fishery or sector of the fishery in which the affected individual has a significant interest, as indicated by:

    (i) A greater than 10-percent interest in the total harvest of the fishery or sector of the fishery in question;

    (ii) A greater than 10-percent interest in the marketing or processing of the total harvest of the fishery or sector of the fishery in question; or

    (iii) Full or partial ownership of more than 10 percent of the vessels using the same gear type within the fishery or sector of the fishery in question."


    Does any one of you know one single person or entity that meets the above criteria - specifically, one that has; (i) greater than 10% interest in the total harvest of the fishery or sector of the fishery in question, (ii) a greater than 10-percent interest in the marketing or processing of the total harvest of the fishery or sector of the fishery in question; or (iii) Full or partial ownership of more than 10 percent of the vessels using the same gear type within the fishery or sector of the fishery in question"?

    I would like to see one person or entity that can meet that standard. The standard has been set so high that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY can possibly meet that standard - the net result being a wide open scenario where any Gulf Council member can do whatever they want and not even have the slightest worry about violating the very basic tenets of Conflict of Interest Standards.

    Anyone? Please post up if you know of any person or entity that could possibly meet such standards.

    Looks to me that the very basic tenets of conflict of interest standards have been stripped bare here at the Gulf Council level to allow activities that would be considered conflict of interest in virtually any other arena.

    Tom Hilton
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Senior Member Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    "Anyone? Please post up if you know of any person or entity that could possibly meet such standards.

    Looks to me that the very basic tenets of conflict of interest standards have been stripped bare here at the Gulf Council level to allow activities that would be considered conflict of interest in virtually any other arena.

    Tom Hilton

    I think there are some IFQs in the northeast and northwest, where one person or corporation owns more than 10% of the total fishery. In some, dealers own the IFQ, so they not only own the harvest, they own the wholesale.

    I know the Gulf red snapper cap is 6%. I think some of the grouper-tilefish caps (for specific sub-groups) might be more than 10%, but I'm not sure about that either.
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    Wreckfish fishery Tom!

    You should take some



    AND
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Senior Member Posts: 328 Deckhand
    notreely wrote: »
    Wreckfish fishery Tom!
    point being, Mr. Greene and Dr. Dana don't own anywhere near 10% of the charter boat fishery in the Gulf.

    That whole 10% thing is intended for those who do own large shares of a specific fishery/sector.

    You have to realize a whole lot of Magnuson (and the guidelines) are written to address major issues in the northwest/alaska/northeast. The southeast is not really on the radar of the majority of Congress, or even NMFS.

    Mr. Hilton, wake up and smell the roses; you and all your group of whiners aren't even a bump on a gnat's butt to Washington. They're dealing with budget, ebola, how to get rid of Obama, etc.

    Recreational red snapper is NOT a top 10 priority to them. And it never will be. The southeast is the only region with a major recreational sector, and they don't know how to deal with it.


    The point being is that NOBODY owns 10% of a fishing industry - you claim you know some that do - post it up or shut up. Enough of your unsubstantiated claims from an anonymous wannabe. They gutted the intent of the Conflict of Interest - why even have it if it's impossible to violate?

    You nailed it - the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper fishery isn't even on the chart when it comes to the importance of fisheries to the nation - what is it? 1/10th of 1%? The Gulf commercial red snapper industry is simply not that important - it's not even registering on the scale at the national scene.

    Calling people whiners before the game has ended is typical of a loser - it ain't over until it's over. I would be surprised if there isn't significant jail time for some involved here, as the wheels are in motion.....
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Senior Member Ozello Fl.Posts: 13,077 AG
    BubbaII wrote: »
    The point being is that NOBODY owns 10% of a fishing industry - you claim you know some that do - post it up or shut up. Enough of your unsubstantiated claims from an anonymous wannabe. They gutted the intent of the Conflict of Interest - why even have it if it's impossible to violate?

    You nailed it - the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper fishery isn't even on the chart when it comes to the importance of fisheries to the nation - what is it? 1/10th of 1%? The Gulf commercial red snapper industry is simply not that important - it's not even registering on the scale at the national scene.

    Calling people whiners before the game has ended is typical of a loser - it ain't over until it's over. I would be surprised if there isn't significant jail time for some involved here, as the wheels are in motion.....
    :huh
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Senior Member MimsPosts: 851 Officer
    BubbaII wrote: »
    The point being is that NOBODY owns 10% of a fishing industry - you claim you know some that do - post it up or shut up. Enough of your unsubstantiated claims from an anonymous wannabe. They gutted the intent of the Conflict of Interest - why even have it if it's impossible to violate?

    All South Atlantic Wreckfish IFQ is held by less than one handful of owners so at least one would hold more than
    10% of the fishery......but......don't think they are voting council members. YOUR RIGHT (thought I'd highlight for
    a rare 100% agreement), that COI rules in this council is pointless as they have effectively written them to make
    sure there is never a conflict. In the "Real World" such rules would prohibit a decision maker from voting on any
    measure that stands to have a significant impact on their personal business, financially or otherwise. In the case
    of the GOM AM 40 scheme, the voting CFH owners would only have to recuse themselves if they owns something
    like 130 CFH boats each! Wonder if this is why the Amendment did not listen to the recommendation to include an
    economic study in the lead up before the vote? It may have raised too many questions.


    You nailed it - the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper fishery isn't even on the chart when it comes to the importance of fisheries to the nation - what is it? 1/10th of 1%? The Gulf commercial red snapper industry is simply not that important - it's not even registering on the scale at the national scene.

    Again, Your right. It is however symptomatic of a much bigger problem that exist in Federal Fishery management. Too many
    "Red Flag" moments have arisen with what has happened to be ignored. State management is gaining traction even if only
    on a regional basis, but still must be considered as a viable option to what has effectively been a shell game of doing as
    little as possible and cut and cover problems hoping they will go away. Red Snapper may be small, but Recreational impact
    of the SE region is a HUGE impact economically despite the total pounds of fish being fractional compared to the national
    take.


    Calling people whiners before the game has ended is typical of a loser - it ain't over until it's over. I would be surprised if there isn't significant jail time for some involved here, as the wheels are in motion.....

    'What does it take to get fired at NOAA"? ...... Holds true for the NMFS and Councils. They have so many loopholes
    and their own judicial system to sweep up their messes that accountability for Federal Fishery managers is virtually
    non-existent.


    WOW
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    :huh

    How did tom hilton edit bubbaII post?
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Senior Member Posts: 1,595 Captain
    Hey, what is Bubba II doing putting his avatar on my post?
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    Tom, David Krebs of Ariel seafood is a on the CMP AP and could be appointed to the council with his qualifications.

    (ii) A greater than 10-percent interest in the marketing or processing of the total harvest of the fishery or sector of the fishery in question; or


    I believe He handles he handles more than 10% of the King Mackerel fishery in the gulf.

    So that is another possibility of a conflict.

    You need to get over this and use the all the energy your wasting whining and try to come up with a viable solution in private sector.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Senior Member Posts: 1,595 Captain
    Pointing out corruption and useless conflict of interest standards is whining? We have a viable solution for ALL Gulf recreational fishermen, which will come to pass in good time (as sector separation will die in due time).
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Pointing out corruption and useless conflict of interest standards is whining? We have a viable solution for ALL Gulf recreational fishermen, which will come to pass in good time (as sector separation will die in due time).


    Making unsubstantiated claims of corruption and challenging people to come up with how the conflict of interest standards can be applied without doing any research about our nations, the southeast and even the gulf fisheries is childish.
    One definition of whining is acting childish.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Senior Member Land of Wind and GhostsPosts: 24,905 AG
    notreely wrote: »
    Making unsubstantiated claims of corruption and challenging people to come up with how the conflict of interest standards can be applied without doing any research about our nations, the southeast and even the gulf fisheries is childish.
    One definition of whining is acting childish.

    So which one of these guys are you?


    http://www.hookedondestin.com/destinfishingboats.html
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer

    None of them !!!!!!

    I think your OBSESSION with my identity is pathetic and probably unhealthy. You should get some psychiatric help with your OBSESSION or at least hire a private investigator so you can come up with a more credible assumption of my identity.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Senior Member Land of Wind and GhostsPosts: 24,905 AG
    :liar
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    :liar

    Pinocchio - Coleccchio are you guys related ?
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Senior Member Land of Wind and GhostsPosts: 24,905 AG
    No, not really. Are you in Jarvis' club or EDF?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    No, not really. Are you in Jarvis' club or EDF?

    NO and NO !
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Senior Member Land of Wind and GhostsPosts: 24,905 AG
    :liar
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    :liar

    Gary Pinocchio is that your new avatar ?
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Senior Member Land of Wind and GhostsPosts: 24,905 AG
    No, I never lie or am deceptive in any way nor belong to an EDF funded charter boat association and fear declaring it.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    No, I never lie or am deceptive in any way nor belong to an EDF funded charter boat association and fear declaring it.

    Desperate false allegations! The true sign of a small obsessed man.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Senior Member Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,893 Captain
    Hold the presses!!!

    How in hades is Bubba II Tom Hilton and vice versa. Has this forum stooped so low as to the mods and "special long time members" posting under many personas and alter egos, just to try and keep the clicks coming in and the site alive. Did someone forget momentarily who they had logged on as this time.:huh

    If so, that is disgusting and such a waste of peoples time that might legitimately be trying to follow the fisheries management issues.

    I would expect such nonsense in off topic or politics, but not here.

    Someone should at least step up and explain or I see no more credibility here at all and **** sure wouldn't donate money through anyone soliciting here.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Senior Member Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,893 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    The point being is that NOBODY owns 10% of a fishing industry - you claim you know some that do - post it up or shut up. Enough of your unsubstantiated claims from an anonymous wannabe. They gutted the intent of the Conflict of Interest - why even have it if it's impossible to violate?

    You nailed it - the Gulf of Mexico Red Snapper fishery isn't even on the chart when it comes to the importance of fisheries to the nation - what is it? 1/10th of 1%? The Gulf commercial red snapper industry is simply not that important - it's not even registering on the scale at the national scene.

    Calling people whiners before the game has ended is typical of a loser - it ain't over until it's over. I would be surprised if there isn't significant jail time for some involved here, as the wheels are in motion.....

    THIS IS THE POST I AM QUESTIONING??????
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    Hold the presses!!!

    How in hades is Bubba II Tom Hilton and vice versa. Has this forum stooped so low as to the mods and "special long time members" posting under many personas and alter egos, just to try and keep the clicks coming in and the site alive. Did someone forget momentarily who they had logged on as this time.:huh

    If so, that is disgusting and such a waste of peoples time that might legitimately be trying to follow the fisheries management issues.

    I would expect such nonsense in off topic or politics, but not here.

    Someone should at least step up and explain or I see no more credibility here at all and **** sure wouldn't donate money through anyone soliciting here.


    Yup something fishy is going on, and I'm getting grief for wanting to keep my identity to my self. I think some of these moderators need explain how that happened.
  • notreelynotreely Senior Member JacksonvillePosts: 653 Officer
    BubbaII post on page one posted at 10:01 says last edited by Tom hilton.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Senior Member Land of Wind and GhostsPosts: 24,905 AG
    notreely wrote: »
    Desperate false allegations! The true sign of a small obsessed man.

    I am not the one lying, nor desperate nor deceitful, which by every indication you are.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
This discussion has been closed.
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