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Jesus Debunked

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  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    I have a question.... because I saw two men praying over their food at lunch today.

    Is there a correlation between the effectivity of the prayer and how tight they close their eyes while praying? If they don't scrunch their eyes down as tight as possible, does any light that may sift in somehow washout the prayer or cause the prayer to lose it's connectivity with Jesus?

    Hummmmm...?

    What made you think that they were praying?

    Were their hands below the table.........and were you eating in a gay restaurant?.....:rotflmao
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    You have problems.
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    Sure!

    But no where as near as many as you.....:grin
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    Schmidty wrote: »
    Hummmmm...?

    What made you think that they were praying?

    Were their hands below the table.........and were you eating in a gay restaurant?.....:rotflmao

    now that is hilarious.... thanks for making my day.... :grin
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    Finally...

    I can now die a happy man........:rotflmao
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    Catch 22 wrote: »
    yes please show us you documented eyewitness testimony that the "Harry Potter" we speak of is or was a real person... You cant fix stupid...:signs
    You should probably go back to post #1 before continuing.

    Just a suggestion.... :idiot
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    greggl wrote: »
    I saw pictures. Moving ones.

    Kid had a lighting bolt on his forehead. Fought a snake dude with a magic stick.
    Led his people to freedom.

    Did the snake talk? It's so cool when they talk.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Schmidty wrote: »
    and were you eating in a gay restaurant?.....:rotflmao

    Are there such things?
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Did the snake talk? It's so cool when they talk.

    Hat did.. or maybe it was a bush. There was a talking snake though.
  • Catch 22Catch 22 Posts: 1,526 Captain
    You should probably go back to post #1 before continuing.

    Just a suggestion.... :idiot

    I did. This guy has no credentials that I can find other than he is an author and so they say a historian...:rolleyes He gives his opinion and he has about as much credibility as you do with me and that is zero....
    :Spittingcoffee

    With just a little research we can find Jesus mentioned out side the bible numeurs times.




    Hostile Non-Biblical Pagan Witnesses
    There are a number of ancient classical accounts of Jesus from pagan Greek sources. These accounts are generally hostile to Christianity and try to explain away the miraculous nature of Jesus and the events that surrounded his life. Let’s look at these hostile accounts and see what they tell us about Jesus:


    Thallus (52AD)
    Thallus is perhaps the earliest secular writer to mention Jesus and he is so ancient that his writings don’t even exist anymore. But Julius Africanus, writing around 221AD does quote Thallus who had previously tried to explain away the darkness that occurred at the point of Jesus’ crucifixion:

    “On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

    If only more of Thallus’ record could be found, we would see that every aspect of Jesus’ life could be verified with a non-biblical source. But there are some things we can conclude from this account: Jesus lived, he was crucified, and there was an earthquake and darkness at the point of his crucifixion.

    Pliny the Younger (61-113AD)
    Early Christians are also described in secular history. Pliny the Younger, in a letter to the Roman emperor Trajan, describes the lifestyles of early Christians:

    “They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food—but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”

    This EARLY description of the first Christians documents several facts: the first Christians believed that Jesus was GOD, the first Christians upheld a high moral code, and these early followers et regularly to worship Jesus.

    Suetonius (69-140AD)
    Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):

    “Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), he (Claudius) expelled them from the city (Rome).” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)

    This expulsion took place in 49AD, and in another work, Suetonius wrote about the fire which destroyed Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians for this fire and he punished Christians severely as a result:

    “Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.” (Lives of the Caesars, 26.2)

    There is much we can learn from Suetonius as it is related to the life of early Christians. From this very EARLY account, we know that Jesus had an immediate impact on his followers. They believed that Jesus was God enough to withstand the torment and punishment of the Roman Empire. Jesus had a curious and immediate impact on his followers, empowering them to die courageously for what they knew to be true.

    Tacitus (56-120AD)
    Cornelius Tacitus was known for his analysis and examination of historical documents and is among the most trusted of ancient historians. He was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and was also proconsul of Asia. In his “Annals’ of 116AD, he describes Emperor Nero’s response to the great fire in Rome and Nero’s claim that the Christians were to blame:

    “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.”

    In this account, Tacitus confirms for us that Jesus lived in Judea, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and had followers who were persecuted for their faith in Christ.
    I have never purchased fish at the market or restaurant and I never will.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    Catch 22 wrote: »
    I did. This guy has no credentials that I can find other than he is an author and so they say a historian...:rolleyes He gives his opinion and he has about as much credibility as you do with me and that is zero....
    :Spittingcoffee

    With just a little research we can find Jesus mentioned out side the bible numeurs times.




    Hostile Non-Biblical Pagan Witnesses
    There are a number of ancient classical accounts of Jesus from pagan Greek sources. These accounts are generally hostile to Christianity and try to explain away the miraculous nature of Jesus and the events that surrounded his life. Let’s look at these hostile accounts and see what they tell us about Jesus:


    Thallus (52AD)
    Thallus is perhaps the earliest secular writer to mention Jesus and he is so ancient that his writings don’t even exist anymore. But Julius Africanus, writing around 221AD does quote Thallus who had previously tried to explain away the darkness that occurred at the point of Jesus’ crucifixion:

    “On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

    If only more of Thallus’ record could be found, we would see that every aspect of Jesus’ life could be verified with a non-biblical source. But there are some things we can conclude from this account: Jesus lived, he was crucified, and there was an earthquake and darkness at the point of his crucifixion.

    Pliny the Younger (61-113AD)
    Early Christians are also described in secular history. Pliny the Younger, in a letter to the Roman emperor Trajan, describes the lifestyles of early Christians:

    “They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food—but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”

    This EARLY description of the first Christians documents several facts: the first Christians believed that Jesus was GOD, the first Christians upheld a high moral code, and these early followers et regularly to worship Jesus.

    Suetonius (69-140AD)
    Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):

    “Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), he (Claudius) expelled them from the city (Rome).” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)

    This expulsion took place in 49AD, and in another work, Suetonius wrote about the fire which destroyed Rome in 64 A.D. under the reign of Nero. Nero blamed the Christians for this fire and he punished Christians severely as a result:

    “Nero inflicted punishment on the Christians, a sect given to a new and mischievous religious belief.” (Lives of the Caesars, 26.2)

    There is much we can learn from Suetonius as it is related to the life of early Christians. From this very EARLY account, we know that Jesus had an immediate impact on his followers. They believed that Jesus was God enough to withstand the torment and punishment of the Roman Empire. Jesus had a curious and immediate impact on his followers, empowering them to die courageously for what they knew to be true.

    Tacitus (56-120AD)
    Cornelius Tacitus was known for his analysis and examination of historical documents and is among the most trusted of ancient historians. He was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and was also proconsul of Asia. In his “Annals’ of 116AD, he describes Emperor Nero’s response to the great fire in Rome and Nero’s claim that the Christians were to blame:

    “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.”

    In this account, Tacitus confirms for us that Jesus lived in Judea, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and had followers who were persecuted for their faith in Christ.

    Very good... yet no mention while he was alive and doing miracles.

    All hail harry potter.
  • None of those "numeurs" citations mentions Jesus at all.

    Does "numeurs" mean you copied it from someone else without crediting them?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Catch 22Catch 22 Posts: 1,526 Captain
    None of those "numeurs" citations mentions Jesus at all.

    Does "numeurs" mean you copied it from someone else without crediting them?

    Does EAD mean anything to you...:blowkiss
    I have never purchased fish at the market or restaurant and I never will.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    Catch 22 wrote: »
    Does EAD mean anything to you...:blowkiss

    I give up what does EAD mean? Something Jesus did?
  • Baits OutBaits Out Posts: 12,331 AG
    Having and trusting in faith = accepting an idea or concept without adequate evidence or proof, or despite the evidence and proof to the contrary.

    = Simple minded ignorance.

    But, . . . that's okay and all some otherwise totally good folk can achieve.
    :thumbsup

    A southeast Florida laid back beach bum and volunteer bikini assessor who lives on island time. 
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,241 Admiral
  • Catch 22 wrote: »
    Does EAD mean anything to you...:blowkiss

    Is that a cognitive disorder from injuries sustained while not wearing a helmet when kickboxing?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Catch 22Catch 22 Posts: 1,526 Captain

    LMAO that is a good one, not what I was going for but hey if the shoe fits...:rotflmao
    I have never purchased fish at the market or restaurant and I never will.
  • Catch 22Catch 22 Posts: 1,526 Captain
    Is that a cognitive disorder from injuries sustained while not wearing a helmet when kickboxing?

    You don't wear a helmet when kicking boxing, you sometimes wear head gear...:wink
    I have never purchased fish at the market or restaurant and I never will.
  • "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    None of those "numeurs" citations mentions Jesus at all.

    Does "numeurs" mean you copied it from someone else without crediting them?

    stolen without credit from here with no mention of EAD

    http://www.str.org/articles/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible#.VC3JyhYXM2M

  • Oh. That's the place where he paid $69.95 to get certifiable.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,962 Captain
    Seems he never existed.

    So is this how you think, given your studies of historical cultural development?
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Cannibals... the lot of you :)
  • MACDMACD Lee CountyPosts: 4,962 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    Cannibals... the lot of you :)

    Who, me too?
  • SpineymanSpineyman Destin, FlPosts: 8,351 Admiral
    Baits Out wrote: »
    Having and trusting in faith = accepting an idea or concept without adequate evidence or proof, or despite the evidence and proof to the contrary.

    = Simple minded ignorance.

    But, . . . that's okay and all some otherwise totally good folk can achieve.
    :thumbsup

    By Faith

    11 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

    4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

    8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

    17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. 21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones.

    23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king's edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.

    29 By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

    32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets— 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two,[a] they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— 38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

    39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!

    II Chronicles 7:14
    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • seajay-1seajay-1 Posts: 4,736 Captain
    Mary might not have been a virgin, but she certainly wasn't married according to the messiah myth. Hence her offspring was illegitimate by common legal definition - NOT "based on what (I) believe".

    Nobody would "Enjoy" incontrovertible proof of any "supernatural magic & ghost stories" more than I, but there's still no valid evidence for any of it - regardless of what I might "believe".




    Scientific American, NOAA, NASA, USGS, etc, etc, etc never checked to see what I "believe" before publishing their conclusions.

    Your "God given right" is to fail miserably at attempting to deny reality while desperately clutching your obsolete, illiterate, goat herder mantra.

    Again you offer No facts to back your mantra. Other than inconclusive results from what you are told. That is your God given right. You are the goat being herded.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Eating bodies, drinking blood... living forever.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    seajay-1 wrote: »
    Again you offer No facts to back your mantra. Other than inconclusive results from what you are told. That is your God given right. You are the goat being herded.

    You seriously didn't just say that...... Facts.... you need facts and not just something you were told?

    :Spittingcoffee
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