Home Politics

No American who works full-time should live in poverty.

189101214

Replies

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Hobby Lobby. It matters, you dolts.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,449 AG
    MACD wrote: »
    Do you really need me to define that for you? Are you
    so overwhelmed with your own obtuse version of reality based on your Convenience Store business model.

    Don't even try to talk to me about the originals Christianity.....

    You pretend to know a lot. I would love to hear your definition of a social livable wage and why Jesus would be a proponent of such.

    What do you do for a living BTW? Since you bring up the subject.

    originals Christianity? Weren't you the guy arguing Babylonians were Christians?

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Hobby Lobby. It matters, you dolts.

    Your handlers really need to tweek the response engine. Seems to be stuck in a loop.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,449 AG
    MACD wrote: »
    So what , American companies will still have to compete in the Global market as other foreign markets expand.

    Subsidizing our low income labor market with an unreal expectation of results is backward thinking.

    What is the results we are expecting?

    What are the results you expect from an increase in the minimum wage?

    Will welfare disappear if we go to $15 an hour?

    If you can assure me that Welfare disappears and we have no need for subsidized ACA policies if we go to $15 an hour, I would endorse a minimum wage of $15 an hour. It would save the feds One trillion dollars a year.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Begin phasing out these sweetheart 'no tax' deals for businesses at the same time, and it is likely that we can phase out many of the subsidies, overall.

    Id think you'd want the specialty big business ones before eliminating ones which have widesprwad, citizen impact.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Begin phasing out these sweetheart 'no tax' deals for businesses at the same time, and it is likely that we can phase out many of the subsidies, overall.

    Id think you'd want the specialty big business ones before eliminating ones which have widesprwad, citizen impact.

    I dont really think anyone would argue that... an amendment that says that all laws must apply equally to everyone. Seems that government has lost their way on this.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,449 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Begin phasing out these sweetheart 'no tax' deals for businesses at the same time, and it is likely that we can phase out many of the subsidies, overall.

    Id think you'd want the specialty big business ones before eliminating ones which have widesprwad, citizen impact.

    That is a state and local issue.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,449 AG
    I dont really think anyone would argue that... an amendment that says that all laws must apply equally to everyone. Seems that government has lost their way on this.

    You want a constitutional amendment to limit state rights of taxation with their borders?

    What laws are not applied equally?

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    That is a state and local issue.

    Which creates deficits and fuels centralization.

    The banks own it all and are in cahoots with the major corporations.

    The only thing worth working for is how to sort ourselves out, under them.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,032 Captain
    cadman wrote: »
    What is the results we are expecting?

    What are the results you expect from an increase in the minimum wage?

    Will welfare disappear if we go to $15 an hour?

    If you can assure me that Welfare disappears and we have no need for subsidized ACA policies if we go to $15 an hour, I would endorse a minimum wage of $15 an hour. It would save the feds One trillion dollars a year.

    Of course welfare won't disappear.

    You can pick any arbitrary number to set a minimum wage at...$10, $15, $17.25, or $25/hr, and the financial benefit to those making that will be short lived.

    The economy will simply adjust, and those people who were previously at "the wage floor" will either still be at that same "floor", or they'll be completely out of work.

    Our goal as a country should be to give people incentive to improve themselves. Instead, we have people advocating providing a minimum standard of living that traps generations in a spiral of helplessness.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Wages should be teetered to some sort of success metric, one would think?
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    riverdiver wrote: »
    Of course welfare won't disappear.

    You can pick any arbitrary number to set a minimum wage at...$10, $15, $17.25, or $25/hr, and the financial benefit to those making that will be short lived.

    The economy will simply adjust, and those people who were previously at "the wage floor" will either still be at that same "floor", or they'll be completely out of work.

    Our goal as a country should be to give people incentive to improve themselves. Instead, we have people advocating providing a minimum standard of living that traps generations in a spiral of helplessness.

    While that sounds good it doesn't play out in reality. Take buying power away from the base and everyone starts moving down. Add to that in order to live they need government assistance and the middle class pays for it. You are treating symptoms and not the disease.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    You want a constitutional amendment to limit state rights of taxation with their borders?

    What laws are not applied equally?

    Any law that benefits an industry. Progressive taxation. Welfare. etc... think about it.

    How would this even apply to states? But lets say it did, how does it limit state rights?
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,449 AG
    While that sounds good it doesn't play out in reality. Take buying power away from the base and everyone starts moving down. Add to that in order to live they need government assistance and the middle class pays for it. You are treating symptoms and not the disease.

    But you don't want to treat the disease. Raising the minimum wage is treating another symptom and not addressing the disease

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    It would artificially set the value of an hour of time at $x.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    greggl wrote: »
    Begin phasing out these sweetheart 'no tax' deals for businesses at the same time, and it is likely that we can phase out many of the subsidies, overall.

    Id think you'd want the specialty big business ones before eliminating ones which have widesprwad, citizen impact.


    Hollywood gets some of the biggest tax credits and breaks as do fiends of Barack
    169304.GIF
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,449 AG
    Any law that benefits an industry. Progressive taxation. Welfare. etc... think about it.

    How would this even apply to states? But lets say it did, how does it limit state rights?

    The tax incentives or no tax deals is state and local government abating taxes in the hopes of jobs or secondary revenue. If you outlaw such programs, you are interfering with that states internal right of taxation.

    I would not argue that our tax code need an overhaul, but there is no need for a constitutional amendment regarding it. We will always have progressive taxation and welfare.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    coldair wrote: »
    Hollywood gets some of the biggest tax credits and breaks as do fiends of Barack

    Yes.. a ton of breaks. Id love to see them ended at all levels. They distort the marketplace.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,032 Captain
    While that sounds good it doesn't play out in reality. Take buying power away from the base and everyone starts moving down. Add to that in order to live they need government assistance and the middle class pays for it. You are treating symptoms and not the disease.

    Sure it plays out in reality.

    A minimum wage is a floor. Whatever you propose the minimum to be, costs/prices will eventually fluctuate to balance it all out.

    In the end, a lot of low skilled workers will completely lose their jobs and be getting more government assistance, while more financial pressure is put on lower middle class workers who find themselves closer to the "floor".

    The objective shouldn't be to raise the minimum wage, since only a couple percent of the nation's entire workforce over the age of 19 work for the minimum. Our objective should be to improve the educational level and skills of those affected, so they can get themselves over the hump.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,032 Captain
    greggl wrote: »
    Wages should be teetered to some sort of success metric, one would think?

    Aren't they already?

    As a general rule, the better one is prepared, the better wages they make.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    That's not the case, except for commissions or compensation tied to some other mechanism.
    And startups.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    riverdiver wrote: »
    Our objective should be to improve the educational level and skills of those affected, so they can get themselves over the hump.

    There are a lot of out of work engineers and people with advanced degrees and doctorates.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    greggl wrote: »
    There are a lot of out of work engineers and people with advanced degrees and doctorates.

    They must be lazy.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    We will always have progressive taxation and welfare.

    Then you agree to have all the problems we have now. As long as government can play favorites, they will to the detriment of everyone. It is not government's responsibility to play in the marketplace. If you allow it, then dont complain about the negative consequences.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    There are a lot of out of work engineers and people with advanced degrees and doctorates.

    Where?
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    My peers.

    Microsoft has been steadily downsizing for years - as have a NUMBER of established tech firms. Startup companies don't tend to be that large. Education is SCREWED and lots and lots of PHDs can't find work. It's hitting my peers and I pretty hard.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    greggl wrote: »
    There are a lot of out of work engineers and people with advanced degrees and doctorates.
    Where?

    Everywhere.....
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/

    "All have concluded that U.S. higher education produces far more science and engineering graduates annually than there are S&E job openings—the only disagreement is whether it is 100 percent or 200 percent more. Were there to be a genuine shortage at present, there would be evidence of employers raising wage offers to attract the scientists and engineers they want. But the evidence points in the other direction: Most studies report that real wages in many—but not all—science and engineering occupations have been flat or slow-growing, and unemployment as high or higher than in many comparably-skilled occupations."

    The truth is ugly and painful.
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,032 Captain
    greggl wrote: »

    The truth is ugly and painful.

    Look at CC's chart right above your post.

    Higher levels of education correlate with a lower unemployment rate and a higher income.

    Now, if you're one of the Occupy peeps that finally woke up and realized that they're a 32 year old Assistant Barista that still lives at home even though they spent 12 years in college studying Harry Potter, the outlook is bleak.

    The truth is ugly and painful.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    greggl wrote: »
    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/

    "All have concluded that U.S. higher education produces far more science and engineering graduates annually than there are S&E job openings—the only disagreement is whether it is 100 percent or 200 percent more. Were there to be a genuine shortage at present, there would be evidence of employers raising wage offers to attract the scientists and engineers they want. But the evidence points in the other direction: Most studies report that real wages in many—but not all—science and engineering occupations have been flat or slow-growing, and unemployment as high or higher than in many comparably-skilled occupations."

    The truth is ugly and painful.

    Interesting thing about engineers is you can replace the old ones with dated educations and high salaries with new ones that have state of the art educations willing to work cheap. But hey, Home Depot likes engineers in orange smocks making 12 bucks an hour.
Sign In or Register to comment.