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No American who works full-time should live in poverty.

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  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Some here are so naive they do not understand the difference between wage and cost of labor.

    This is a discussion about wages.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
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  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Most people who earn the minimum don't get full time. They have to get two or three jobs to make 40-50 hours. That is a lot harder to juggle than one 40 hour job.

    This reply just hit me. If most people earning minimum wage already work part time, what do you think raising the minimum wag will do to full time employment. One of the ways for an employer to cut cost is to eliminate more full time employees and create more part time jobs to save money on benefits.

    You claim a full time 40 hour week is needed at $15 an hour. It won't happen. Raise the minimum to $15 and part time employment will increase even more as employers look to eliminate full time benefits.

    We will end up a nation of part time workers with no benefits.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,369 AG
    While you can live on that if you are creative it is a drain on the economy and a highly unstable lifestyle. See if everyone of the people making minimum wage within 2 miles of Cads store were paid enough to each purchase 1 twinkie from him every day for the next year cad will become a rich man and would hire more help. He would buy a new car and go on vacation, he'd be eating dinner out 3 nights a week . But alas they can't afford that twinkie so Cad is stuck working the counter for 12 hours a day all the while his median income goes down year after year and he doesn't understand why.

    Just read this and you are incorrect. Most people within a two mile radius is students who don't care about minimum wage jobs (check average family income for U.F. students. Last I looked it was over $100,000). I have students who spend $50 to $100 in beer and snacks at a visit.

    Also, I don't work 12 hours behind a register. I would not work any less hours then I do now if business doubled and would not buy a new vehicle. The reason I bought my 07 Dodge with a lifetime warranty was so that it would be the last vehicle I buy. I already eat out as often as I wish. I am not a rich man, but my income isn't falling currently. I did take a big hit with the recession (I think due to parental investments meant for a college fund taking a hit). Another issue I have is a lousy Gator Football team and low attendance at games and fewer parties for the winning team. Most area businesses are off in the fall due to the Gator Football program's problems.

    If minimum wage was raised around me, local taxes would go up since a lot of government employees are below that number. I would work more hours and give my employees less hours than I do now. I would probably lose income due to all the unemployed people who lost their jobs when the small retailers go under unable to pay that wage or cut back on staff. I might not survive such an impact like that would bring. I could sell out to a foreign individual who would run it himself with his family avoiding the entire issue of minimum wage and taxes and such.

    But I have only been in this business for 30 years, so what do I know.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • snippersnipper Posts: 524 Officer
    I believe the minimum wage were it created today would have the minimum wage north of $25 an hour based on the original design of minimum wage. I haven't read the 30 pages here, but the argument set up by reps and dems moved the goalpost from north of $25 to $10.10, essentially sticking it to the US poor and middle class. I wonder how long this will last before there's a real revolution in this country. I have nothing against people who make a lot of money, but when the system is designed to keep the poor poor through the judicial, legislative and executive branches of government our grand social experiment isn't really working out all that well.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    This thread talks about 'the poor'... if you're not pulling 200k/year - you're essentially considered the same :)
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    Just read this and you are incorrect. Most people within a two mile radius is students who don't care about minimum wage jobs (check average family income for U.F. students. Last I looked it was over $100,000). I have students who spend $50 to $100 in beer and snacks at a visit.

    Also, I don't work 12 hours behind a register. I would not work any less hours then I do now if business doubled and would not buy a new vehicle. The reason I bought my 07 Dodge with a lifetime warranty was so that it would be the last vehicle I buy. I already eat out as often as I wish. I am not a rich man, but my income isn't falling currently. I did take a big hit with the recession (I think due to parental investments meant for a college fund taking a hit). Another issue I have is a lousy Gator Football team and low attendance at games and fewer parties for the winning team. Most area businesses are off in the fall due to the Gator Football program's problems.

    If minimum wage was raised around me, local taxes would go up since a lot of government employees are below that number. I would work more hours and give my employees less hours than I do now. I would probably lose income due to all the unemployed people who lost their jobs when the small retailers go under unable to pay that wage or cut back on staff. I might not survive such an impact like that would bring. I could sell out to a foreign individual who would run it himself with his family avoiding the entire issue of minimum wage and taxes and such.

    But I have only been in this business for 30 years, so what do I know.

    Well aren't you just a geographical oddity.
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    Labor is just a cost to be reduced or eliminated at every opportunity.

    Righties hate them some working stiffs

    truth is the only chance labor has against Capital is to organize.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    Just read this and you are incorrect. Most people within a two mile radius is students who don't care about minimum wage jobs (check average family income for U.F. students. Last I looked it was over $100,000). I have students who spend $50 to $100 in beer and snacks at a visit.

    Also, I don't work 12 hours behind a register. I would not work any less hours then I do now if business doubled and would not buy a new vehicle. The reason I bought my 07 Dodge with a lifetime warranty was so that it would be the last vehicle I buy. I already eat out as often as I wish. I am not a rich man, but my income isn't falling currently. I did take a big hit with the recession (I think due to parental investments meant for a college fund taking a hit). Another issue I have is a lousy Gator Football team and low attendance at games and fewer parties for the winning team. Most area businesses are off in the fall due to the Gator Football program's problems.

    If minimum wage was raised around me, local taxes would go up since a lot of government employees are below that number. I would work more hours and give my employees less hours than I do now. I would probably lose income due to all the unemployed people who lost their jobs when the small retailers go under unable to pay that wage or cut back on staff. I might not survive such an impact like that would bring. I could sell out to a foreign individual who would run it himself with his family avoiding the entire issue of minimum wage and taxes and such.

    But I have only been in this business for 30 years, so what do I know.

    Nice explanation.... most promoting the minimum wage as a way to lift people out of poverty have no clue or wont take the time to connect the dots of cause and effect. They refuse to think beyond the utopian idea that artificially raising the cost of something has zero effect on its surroundings.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    rickc wrote: »
    Labor is just a cost to be reduced or eliminated at every opportunity.

    Righties hate them some working stiffs

    truth is the only chance labor has against Capital is to organize.

    IT is true... labor is a necessary evil to perform work. If you artificially raise the cost of doing work one way, you make doing it other ways more viable. This applies to ALL components of work, even capital.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
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  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    http://www.goiamalabama.com/

    Communist Apache service techs and machinists?
  • sk018sk018 Posts: 2,958 Captain
    I'd bet you couldn't hack that low skill job for long at 58 bucks a day. 17 year old with no skills would probably smoke you on the first day.

    Is that supposed to be an insult?
    I would never work for 58 bucks a day!
    and I would never work that job. I have an education, skills, work ethic and talent.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    sk018 wrote: »
    I would never work for 58 bucks a day!
    and I would never work that job. I have an education, skills, work ethic and talent.

    Sounds like you're agreeing with CC ;)
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    greggl wrote: »
    Sounds like you're agreeing with CC ;)

    They really just don't get it.
  • sk018sk018 Posts: 2,958 Captain
    They really just don't get it.

    Seems to me everyone on here "gets it" except you, greg and swfl. Which is not shocking.
    You live in a fantasy land where you deny reality.
    In your fantasy force employers to pay low skilled employees more.
    They will not lay anyone off, cost of goods will not go up.
    Everything will be just great! In your world money will be worthless, just keep printing it and pay a burger flipper 20 bucks an hour and everyone buys 12 dollar big macs. You clearly do not understand economics,
  • sk018sk018 Posts: 2,958 Captain
    How do you not understand the fact that Fins does NOT force anyone to work for him. They CHOOSE to
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    And he legally choses to pay below poverty wages as denies in this thread.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    sk018 wrote: »
    Seems to me everyone on here "gets it" except you, greg and swfl. Which is not shocking.
    You live in a fantasy land where you deny reality.
    In your fantasy force employers to pay low skilled employees more.
    They will not lay anyone off, cost of goods will not go up.
    Everything will be just great! In your world money will be worthless, just keep printing it and pay a burger flipper 20 bucks an hour and everyone buys 12 dollar big macs. You clearly do not understand economics,


    So hows it working out for you? I hear the median income is not doing well.... Vicious rumor?
  • sk018sk018 Posts: 2,958 Captain
    So hows it working out for you? I hear the median income is not doing well.... Vicious rumor?

    Pretty well for me.
    At my age I am happy with what I make, I always want to make more. Of course I had to make some sacrifices along the way, like moving from Fl.
    Then had to prove myself at my first "real job" and get a couple promotions from hard work.
  • Conchy CrackerConchy Cracker Posts: 10,454 Officer
    sk018 wrote: »
    Pretty well for me.
    At my age I am happy with what I make, I always want to make more. Of course I had to make some sacrifices along the way, like moving from Fl.
    Then had to prove myself at my first "real job" and get a couple promotions from hard work.

    And there we have it the economy is wonderful and the middle class is booming because you are doing well.

    Thanks for playing
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Would you guys be pissed if there was a 'maximum wage'?
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Would you guys be pissed if there was a 'maximum wage'?

    That is a question for cc and cyclist.
  • White DogWhite Dog Posts: 5,343 Officer
    That is a question for cc and cyclist.

    They would not answer truthfully.
    The White Dog.........R.I.P..........1996 - June 2nd, 2011
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Neither of you answered at all.
  • sk018sk018 Posts: 2,958 Captain
    And there we have it the economy is wonderful and the middle class is booming because you are doing well.

    Thanks for playing

    I think you missed the point.
    People have to be willing to make sacrifices and work hard to move UP out of minimum wage jobs
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    sk018 wrote: »
    I think you missed the point.
    People have to be willing to make sacrifices and work hard to move UP out of minimum wage jobs

    Why? What if it's just a job?
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Neither of you answered at all.

    IF I am not for a minimum, you can safely assume that I am not for a maximum? Your question is directed at the wrong person.

    Why is that people who support a minimum wage also support legalizing labor diluting illegal immigrants.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Big business wants all three and will violate any law and work against the interests of our communities and citizens to get there.

    You're very outspoken against these 'unskilled' people you're too lazy to build business around.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    Why do you keep changing the subject?

    Why should anyone build a business around unskilled people? The comment should be, Unskilled people are too lazy to build their skills to fit a decent paying job.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    We have collusion and wage fixing at the top, lies and misinformation about the true value of advanced degrees with very little accountability, massive and wide-spread wage theft, the H1B visa dilution and outsourcing at play.

    Minimum wage increases will help, not hurt.
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