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Most Adults Fail 5th Grade Science Test

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  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    You almost got it right. As I said above, mathematics is the language of science.

    Ecology/Botany not so much except for stats.
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    Took me forever to learn a regular calculator after learning RPN.

    Me too. As a freshman engineering student in 1974, I walked into the book store and saw a poster advertising the new HP21, $125. I bought it on the spot. Used it for years. In addition to RPN, it would do rectangular to polar, polar to rectangular conversions whereas the latest TI calculators at the time couldn't. Loved that HP calculator.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    You almost got it right. As I said above, mathematics is the language of science.

    This. And yes, even biology.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • WaterEngineerWaterEngineer Posts: 24,415 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Ecology/Botany not so much except for stats.

    :Spittingcoffee Hilarious. Shows just how out if touch you are. Because ecologists and botanists don't use any cartography, GIS, GPS, thus no calc, or trig are used in your "science."
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Tools insulate them from that math.
  • WaterEngineerWaterEngineer Posts: 24,415 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Tools insulate them from that math.

    Only if they are stoopid. If you don't know what the "tool" is doing you don't deserve to run the "tool." I run into this all the time with young engineers who want to believe what the computer spits out as results from a simulation run.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Tools insulate them from that math.

    Tools insulate you from digging that hole with your hands too. What's your point?
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Only if they are stoopid. If you don't know what the "tool" is doing you don't deserve to run the "tool." I run into this all the time with young engineers who want to believe what the computer spits out as results from a simulation run.

    Tools like waterengineer, except engineers don't really understand the natural world except to **** it up.

    I don't need an engineer to try and explain to me why they think a particular plant should grow in a particular place or why fire is needed as a management tool etc.

    I spend a GREAT DEAL OF TIME fixing designs some know it all engineer screwed up royally.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    Only if they are stoopid. If you don't know what the "tool" is doing you don't deserve to run the "tool." I run into this all the time with young engineers who want to believe what the computer spits out as results from a simulation run.

    Totally.

    but they do it for cheap and now, even the degrees don't have any value.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Tools like waterengineer, except engineers don't really understand the natural world except to **** it up.

    Really? Ever had surgery? How about anyone you know, they had surgery?
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    Tools insulate you from digging that hole with your hands too. What's your point?

    Who's got the longest slide rule? I think these guys are competing for that title ;)
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Who's got the longest slide rule?

    I give up. Who?
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    :Spittingcoffee Hilarious. Shows just how out if touch you are. Because ecologists and botanists don't use any cartography, GIS, GPS, thus no calc, or trig are used in your "science."

    Seriously?
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    mikev wrote: »
    Really? Ever had surgery? How about anyone you know, they had surgery?

    Stop it. You are making as much sense as an engineer, which is none.
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    mikev wrote: »
    I give up. Who?

    Water Enginer... he's got a degree in hoses and pipes.

    But he makes less than a plumber.
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,438 AG
    Math is the basis of Science.


    Math is to science what music theory is to
    Stevie Ray Vaughn.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Stop it. You are making as much sense as an engineer, which is none.

    OK, you win.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • WaterEngineerWaterEngineer Posts: 24,415 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Seriously?

    Really? That's what you are going with? Sorry, I showed you, your fallacy, again.
  • WaterEngineerWaterEngineer Posts: 24,415 AG
    greggl wrote: »
    Totally.

    but they do it for cheap and now, even the degrees don't have any value.

    That is wrong, except in your industry.
  • WaterEngineerWaterEngineer Posts: 24,415 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Tools like waterengineer, except engineers don't really understand the natural world except to **** it up.

    I don't need an engineer to try and explain to me why they think a particular plant should grow in a particular place or why fire is needed as a management tool etc.

    I spend a GREAT DEAL OF TIME fixing designs some know it all engineer screwed up royally.

    Couple of points Here, Peter.

    1, Nice personal attack. I appreciate it. Your attack means I am correct about your lame statement about mathematics. You know you screwed up, admit it. It is OK.

    2. Nice, topic drift. The topic and the point is you claim you don't use mathematics in your "science", other than statistics. That is wrong and you know it. Admit it. It is OK.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Do you think students should be allowed to use calculators when solving math problems?

    Marilyn responds:

    Absolutely! Calculators don’t do your thinking for you. They just follow your instructions. After middle school, doing rote arithmetical operations by hand is a waste of precious time that could be better spent on learning the mathematical reasoning that underlies what those instructions should be.

    Consider the process of doing a square root by hand. Do you have any understanding of why the steps work? Nope, and why should you? It won’t help you solve problems. You probably don’t even know why the process of doing long division by hand works. You simply follow the steps you’ve memorized. Doing that is no better than pressing calculator buttons in a certain order.

    Of course, everyone should know how to do *basic math operations for everyday life, and they’re part of younger students’ math foundation. But older students should be using their mental *energy understanding which operations should be performed, not going through the mechanical labor of *doing no-think calculations by hand.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Really? That's what you are going with? Sorry, I showed you, your fallacy, again.

    You are so full of BS if can smell you from here.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Tell us why a plant taxonomist relies on math.
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Do you think students should be allowed to use calculators when solving math problems?

    Marilyn responds:

    Absolutely! Calculators don’t do your thinking for you. They just follow your instructions. After middle school, doing rote arithmetical operations by hand is a waste of precious time that could be better spent on learning the mathematical reasoning that underlies what those instructions should be.

    Consider the process of doing a square root by hand. Do you have any understanding of why the steps work? Nope, and why should you? It won’t help you solve problems. You probably don’t even know why the process of doing long division by hand works. You simply follow the steps you’ve memorized. Doing that is no better than pressing calculator buttons in a certain order.

    Of course, everyone should know how to do *basic math operations for everyday life, and they’re part of younger students’ math foundation. But older students should be using their mental *energy understanding which operations should be performed, not going through the mechanical labor of *doing no-think calculations by hand.


    Who is Marilyn, and what makes her an expert?
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • Team SabatageTeam Sabatage USA, USA, USAPosts: 13,014 AG
    Marilyn is a woman.
    This answers the second question, just ask any one of them.
    Strap me in, tie me down and roll me a bone, I'm getting on an airplane and I'm flying home...
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    mikev wrote: »
    Who is Marilyn, and what makes her an expert?

    Columnist and among the world smartest people.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_vos_Savant
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Marilyn is a woman.
    This answers the second question, just ask any one of them.

    Doesn't have to be you know. That Manson guy.....
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Tell us why a plant taxonomist relies on math.

    Watereng are you going to answer the question?
  • mikevmikev Posts: 10,822 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Columnist and among the world smartest people.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_vos_Savant

    And probably the biggest common sense idiot ever. Basically she's saying that "you don't need to know what going on behind the scenes. Just follow the steps."

    Good advice? Not at all.
    "The only people that tell you it can't be done are the people who haven't done it themselves."
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    I was taught via calculator in an experimental program back in the late 80s.

    We 'finished the book' in the first semester.
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