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Young bucks - shoot or pass

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  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    glad ur able to understand that nature in Fl has been taking care of itself much longer and far greater then any biologist could dream of.
    The more competition, the better the chance that natural selection will occur as nature intended it to.

    Does not take a rocket scientist to understand that when more fawns are born, more predators show up.

    Like snooker said, we are well on our way to a 2 buck tag limit...and BOHICA if you ever think we will ever get a doe tag in the mail for whenever wherever.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    You're right. It aint rocket science.

    Shorter time of vulnerability still = less loss.

    Even us dummies that do this stuff every day are smart enough to figure that out.
  • fatpossumfatpossum Posts: 195 Deckhand
    Florida is allowing too much input from Private land biologists...none of which have ever had any success in a public WMA. No offense to any of our in house experts, but public land should be managed for Max sustainability. Pick a few special opp places to impose restrictions like they have done for yrs and yrs like Joe Budd and others. Remember AR's were an experiment at one time(anyone remember that??)...kind of like the love bug experiment gone wild!

    Love bugs came from Central America. Not an experiment.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Still wanting to clearly understand what letting 1.5 yr old bucks walk will do for the herd?

    I believe one of our in house resident biologists has quoted a sentence from here...

    http://www.qdma.com/articles/the-reality-of-doebuck-ratios
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Walker Dog wrote: »
    You're right. It aint rocket science.

    Shorter time of vulnerability still = less loss.

    Even us dummies that do this stuff every day are smart enough to figure that out.

    Without certifiable data, one can only call this speculation. Field knowledge is one thing,but remember....

    You fail to realize you manage PRIVATE land with virtually no restrictions,and virtually no on the record predator management. Remember I have hunted a finger of property for many yrs on that place and have got to know lots of the land and people. You register far less doe deer then killed for sure..but the locals keep that ratio in check. Yotes are killed yr long as well.

    If this AR thing is about the hunting along sovereign land then anyone pulling in this direction should be ashamed of themselves
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Do you have more bucks in the herd if all you have is this year's 1.5 yr olds or are there more if you have this year's 1.5 yr olds and most of last years 1.5 yr olds?

    The math is pretty simple really.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Not sure where you're going with that one.

    Never said anything about private or public. Just talking deer herds in general here.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    and why do we care about more bucks in the herd? Is Fl become one big private i need to see bucks on my lease/on my WMA's?

    Is the goal to make permit costs so high that every local runs out of town?
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Max Sustainability the rest is gravy
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    The whole predator swamping thing is well studied and documented. Works in fish too. Ever see a school of them? There's a reason they stick together. Speculation is something else.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Getting off topic with leases, costs, etc. Just talking deer here. If you don't care about the herd, then I guess I could see where you wouldn't care how many bucks there were in it to do what nature intended them to do.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    I should correct that, MAX sustainability after the berry pickers have done their damage to the woods
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    No...your skills and comments are 100% geared towards 1 hunter per 500 acres..not the real world.

    Again, more bucks in the woods does what for the herd? I'm looking for a particular right answer and I am quite sure you know the answer.
  • pbsnookerpbsnooker Posts: 882 Officer
    Wonder if most poachers will follow the restrictions?
  • FLDXTFLDXT Posts: 2,521 Captain
    Unfortunately, I don't read a lot of research put out by a lot of people in offices. I have hunted the same piece of land for over 30 years, we don't shoot anything under 4.5 unless it is genetically inferior, our rules are if it isn't 4.5 plus and over 125" he walks, unfortunately over the past 4-5 years, right next door where he is probably shot at. Over our time of practicing this philosophy we have seen the number and quality of deer increase, seeing bucks on every sit along with a handful of resident does. We don't feed, we stay out of bedding areas, we hunt and get out. It has worked for us, it has worked for all of our private land neighbors and is proven to produce substantially higher scoring deer, which is what we want. If we want meat there is always a nanner head that needs to be removed. There are years we don't shoot a deer, not because we couldn't, but because we choose not to. All this BS about 100" deer being a trophy in S. FL is just that, BS.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Still not sure where you're going, but have a fun trip!

    Lots of documented FACTS about the benefits to balancing the herd so that natural processes are at work like they were intended to be.

    I don't have a problem with areas being managed for maximum sustained yield, I just realize that there is a cost to the deer herd when it's practiced because some of the natural processes don't operate like nature intended them to.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Poachers will always be poachers. 1 inch, 5 inch, whatever it is they will do what they do. Not really on topic though.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Dance all night...

    So what will be the public's response to the Quality of the hunt, or hunter satisfaction be when the "buck" ratio / more bucks becomes reality?

    Has anyone taken the time to explain the tradeoff? My guess is no
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    And again public land should be managed for MAx sus... private people can do whatever private people want to do. And BTW, quit *****en when people shoot the deer outside the fence. One of my favorite pastimes is hooting dove next to that hot field....get it
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Yeah, because hunters hate to see bucks.

    WMAs that I'm familiar with where they've let 1.5 yr olds walk seem to have pretty good success so far and more bucks being seen from the stand. They like the improvement from what I've heard and seen here from them.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    No I don't get it.

    Its a strange dance.

    If you have something to say, just say it in plain English!
  • FLDXTFLDXT Posts: 2,521 Captain
    And again public land should be managed for MAx sus... private people can do whatever private people want to do. And BTW, quit *****en when people shoot the deer outside the fence. One of my favorite pastimes is hooting dove next to that hot field....get it


    Is this English?
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Maybe English, but not plain English!

    Seems like he's trying to say something, but can't find the right words. Not sure.
  • rrbgttrrbgtt Posts: 6,758 Admiral
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Shoot the little ones and the sick looking ones and leave the big boys alone if you really want to improve the herd. :)

    There is no way anyone can effective argue against this. The problem with this? We want trophy horns. Why do we feel the need to deny the facts.

    I trophy manage my lease. I do it to produce wall hangars.
    From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned bobcat!
  • eorlandoeorlando Posts: 560 Officer
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Shoot the little ones and the sick looking ones and leave the big boys alone if you really want to improve the herd. :)

    So would this be considered a sick deer???

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  • micci_manmicci_man Somewhere in FLPosts: 13,836 AG
    My reply has nothing to do with deer management so take it for what you paid for it.....

    Kill all of the small bucks you see yr after yr and it will leave you with no bucks to mature or at least have a chance to get a little older in the coming years. I personally quit shooting young bucks years ago and only shoot bucks that get my heart really pounding and it doesn't have to always be a 100"+ deer. I can have a great hunt just by watching young deer and their behavior without pulling the trigger. Now if my kids are with me and they want to shoot one, they get the green light.
    Common Sense can't be bought, taught or gifted, yet it is one of the few things in life that is free, and most refuse to even attempt to possess it. - Miguel Cervantes
  • gottheitch22gottheitch22 fort Meade FLPosts: 4,334 Captain
    Every hunter who says they dont want to kill the biggest buck they can is fooling no one .
    living life as i like
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    eorlando wrote: »
    So would this be considered a sick deer???


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    y2a6yre4.jpg


    I would be curious to know what is in the deers leg abscess. Tip off an arrow?
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    Orlando, I would consider that an injured deer. Not a sick deer. Choosing to shoot him for whatever reason would not really hurt or help your herd. He is but one of many and therefore inconsequential to the over-all health and make-up of the herd. Personally, I would let him heal and see what he becomes next year. If he dies naturally, then it was meant to be. But if he heals and survives, he could potentially be much more than he is now. After all, that is a young deer (2 year old) with good rack potential. The missing left antler is opposite the injury (as studies have shown to be true time and again) and should grow back once the rear right leg heals.

    As for the "shoot all the little ones and the sick ones and leave the big ones alone to breed" argument, there is a saying that rings true...
    If you only shoot small deer, you only ever shoot small deer. Every WMA in Florida without APRs bears out that truth year after year.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    i think any private land who complains about people shooting their deer on the other side of the fence should just put up a hi fence...and not enjoy the benefits the low fence has to offer.
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