The official end of FCFS (at least for now)

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Replies

  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    Y'all need to knock it off or I will close this thread and start handing out vacation permits. There's an unlimited number of those tags.
    If you have nothing new to add, refrain from posting just to complain and kvetch.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • If_it_flies_it_diesIf_it_flies_it_dies Posts: 1,133 Officer
    So if we don't agree with a change that FWC made without any measurable input, basically we are not entitled to express our displeasure? According to the vote that was done recently; only 30% of the people on this forum got what they wanted, why should the other 70% have to stop complaining? Last time I checked this was America, and what's right is right, and it isn't right.
  • PinkIndian321PinkIndian321 Posts: 489 Deckhand
    It's over.....it's done....forget it. Everybody going at everybody's throat, for what? It's really not surprising this change was made. The problems with Brandt, RLIS and FCFS serve are well documented. It was, and had been for a while, a flawed system that didn't function properly. The incessant complaining over this was reaching a boiling point. (As evidenced by many posts on this forum by some members calling for lawsuits, firings, refunds etc.) The FWC was taking an embarrassing beating every week, out in the open, on Facebook, email, phone calls etc. You know they aren't gonna go for that very long. In regard to the actual drawing, the FACTof the matter is although SOME (including myself) had random success, there were many people that were having NO success for a variety of reasons including the awful technical difficulties, not being able to afford higher quality equipment/internet, not knowing some of the "tricks" and work schedules that didn't permit it. So, after acknowledging they knew the system wasn't working properly or equivalently for all users, being threatened by stakeholders with lawsuits or being fired, the powers that be chose a system that: (1) Offered more/most people the opportunity to participate in redraws (2) Gives each user equal chance at pulling a permit (3) Generates more revenue for them, considering that everybody will be buying WMA stamps for anyone willing to hunt with them. All you outspoken "Procedure Analysts" out there; why wouldn't they do that? The greed by some of the permit mongers on here is both eye opening and appalling. Some of you are acting like spoiled, rotten, little brats that just got there favorite toy taken away. Stop lacking the decency to realize public land is everybody's toy and meant to be shared. Maybe you guys should take your own advice, "you can always pull a permit for the romp and stomps", quit crying and get out there and make the most of what you have.
  • JoshAaron91685JoshAaron91685 Posts: 723 Officer
    snowman wrote: »
    No thats not y its my handle id tell u the story just not on here. Anyways rnt u the guy me and tom drove up on on that tight rd in dexter during muz season? And all that 8000$ work station cant handle tge speed of my lg Verizon incredible 2 phone that falls apart if i squeeze it wrong lol i guess now u will have a fair chance with my super phone and my 13 friends i have written down to apply for all 4 dexter hunts available not to mention one of my other buddies has 20 names that r goin in the same hat so now its random draw between u and at least 35 ppl instead of trying to beat my varbage phone and his average computer with ur super 8000$ work station not to mention all the other ppl doin the same thing as us to get one of those permits. Did u kill anything out there on that hunt btw?

    Didn't kill anything, passed on a couple 8pts that maybe I shouldn't have but I was hoping for a monster. Did some scouting and found a sweet spot with zero human sign but ran out of time. If god smiles down on me and I draw it again I'll be in there for sure.

    The system was broken, there's no arguing that. Does this fix it? NO. Is it better? probably not if everyone is putting in 20 of their friends. I don't understand how soo many other states can handle the distribution of permits so well, yet FL fails every time they try to fix it.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,347 AG
    This was inevitable....

    I knew this when the duck area permits ( TMG /STA's) drawing was continually crashing...and duck hunters screamed and howled...they went to random draw.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 446 Officer
    Didn't kill anything, passed on a couple 8pts that maybe I shouldn't have but I was hoping for a monster. Did some scouting and found a sweet spot with zero human sign but ran out of time. If god smiles down on me and I draw it again I'll be in there for sure.

    The system was broken, there's no arguing that. Does this fix it? NO. Is it better? probably not if everyone is putting in 20 of their friends. I don't understand how soo many other states can handle the distribution of permits so well, yet FL fails every time they try to fix it.

    I was in tge stand less then 15 min and my buddy shot his first buck a 85" 8 pt so i was super happy about that but we almost didnt make it 5 minutes we seen a 7 pt driving in but it slipped away from is b4 we could shoot it
  • kgatorkgator Posts: 88 Deckhand
    Fact of the matter is, the vendor still sucks and should be fired for not performing. FWC pushed the panic button instead of being accountable, seeking further options and working something out. The random drawings will not be any better and people will still complain. All it has done is divide a group that should be united (hunters).

    Call it selfish, but it's human nature to give yourself all the opportunities you can get. Just like someone looking for a job, fill out as many applications as you can. The game was set-up, some people learned to play the game others did not, nothing wrong with that.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,347 AG
    Yes, THIS vendor sucks...just like the last one....my guess that is why they changed the way they do it...If they are getting random hits for licenses etc here and there..no problem...bomb the system and they fold like K mart lawn furniture!
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • hunterzackhunterzack Posts: 180 Officer
    Oh well we can complain all we want but it wont change anything. Mabee if we orginized some sort of group and actually put forth some sort of petituion and man power we could. If this is the way the system is going to be now "a random draw" it needs serious tweaking.. but untill then its time to start learning the local romp and stomps. I'll be at Green Swamp a little more
  • mr. lolomr. lolo Posts: 3 Greenhorn
    Was the FCFS system fair for the many hunters with no access to computers who needed to be at the tax collector office sharp at 10:00 am on Tuesdays to be able to apply? Was it possible for tax collector staff to queue applications minutes before 10:00 am and release them exactly at the time quotas were made available?
  • If_it_flies_it_diesIf_it_flies_it_dies Posts: 1,133 Officer
    huntmstr wrote: »
    Y'all need to knock it off or I will close this thread and start handing out vacation permits. There's an unlimited number of those tags.
    If you have nothing new to add, refrain from posting just to complain and kvetch.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    You are allowed to express yourself here. If you beat a dead horse however, the moderators have the discretion to shut down a thread. Read the forum rules.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    Did anyone else not get this email from fwc? I still haven't received it.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • flattitudeflattitude Posts: 536 Officer
    Just remember to get all 20 of your people lined up have them pay for their licenses and WMA stamp and then have them not get anything. Keep doing that for a couple years and see how long they donate their money.

    For me I am happy it is a fair and equal draw. If it drops my chances then so be it.
  • snowmansnowman Posts: 446 Officer
    flattitude wrote: »
    Just remember to get all 20 of your people lined up have them pay for their licenses and WMA stamp and then have them not get anything. Keep doing that for a couple years and see how long they donate their money.

    For me I am happy it is a fair and equal draw. If it drops my chances then so be it.

    They all already get lis and management stamps to hunt so it doesnt effect them they see it as possibly getting a free hunt and im helping so i get first dibs on guest. This random draw might work better for me lol ill be aplying for everywhere just in case i have time to go
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 2,690 Captain
    Pull up your big boy pants fellas because the next new feature will be a quota on quotas.... You'll ONLY be allowed one bow, muzzle, and gun hunt so the rest of the quotas will be better evenly distributed. Keep on griping and ol St Nick will provide a fix!
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,347 AG
    Big Mak wrote: »
    Pull up your big boy pants fellas because the next new feature will be a quota on quotas.... You'll ONLY be allowed one bow, muzzle, and gun hunt so the rest of the quotas will be better evenly distributed. Keep on griping and ol St Nick will provide a fix!

    GREAT Idea..I knew I could count on a "restrictionist" like you Gene! :rotflmao
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,347 AG
    hunterzack wrote: »
    Maybe if we organized some sort of group and actually put forth some sort of petition .

    I would say...join just about any stakeholder group EXCEPT hunters to see how that actually gets done.....
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • David BDavid B Posts: 1,907 Captain
    I would say...join just about any stakeholder group EXCEPT hunters to see how that actually gets done.....

    Read more: http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?167623-The-official-end-of-FCFS-(at-least-for-now)/page14#ixzz3CTp2WJTB

    Well that sounds nice and all.... however, hunters have yet to stand up and threaten to sue or better yet actually file suit over acess and denying others from use.
    Maybe it is time that we all pay attention to those "Other" stakeholder groups and take a page out of their own play book and use it to our advantage.
    Joe- Do you think that would work?
    We need more retired hunters with nothing better to do than go to meetings while everyone else is working. We can cover the cost of gas and expenses. That seems to work for the non-hunting stakeholders too. Ooh, oooh, we can throw our hands in the air, say something under our breathes and hunt out of state with everyone else that is going that way. The car pool seems better.
    Increasing MMGW or climate change, one twist off at a time.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,347 AG
    David B wrote: »
    Well that sounds nice and all.... however, hunters have yet to stand up and threaten to sue or better yet actually file suit over acess and denying others from use.
    Maybe it is time that we all pay attention to those "Other" stakeholder groups and take a page out of their own play book and use it to our advantage.
    Joe- Do you think that would work?
    We need more retired hunters with nothing better to do than go to meetings while everyone else is working. We can cover the cost of gas and expenses. That seems to work for the non-hunting stakeholders too. Ooh, oooh, we can throw our hands in the air, say something under our breathes and hunt out of state with everyone else that is going that way. The car pool seems better.

    I think it "might" work David... But the problem is like in a gunfight...*if* you lose..You're dead! You have taken a path that makes it so you will always be involved in suits since you are no longer "friendly" and will have no "good will" with agencies etc.

    Also, do you have any idea where the MONEY for big lawsuits would come from?
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    That's nonsense. Audubon, Sierra, Defenders of Wildlife and others sue regularly and they still "work" as stakeholders and "partners" with all these state agencies. The overt caution and trepidation is understandable when you have no bite behind the bark. Put some teeth behind the threat of legal action and they will change how they react to us taking a stronger position. Without follow through, these agencies know thy can call our bluff and get away with continuing to bully and push us around.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,290 Admiral
    The key to legal battle is finding representation that would work Pro Bono or to team up with SCI as they have ample funds to pursue lengthy legal battles.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,855 Captain
    Who do I make a check out to?
  • David BDavid B Posts: 1,907 Captain
    Joe- There is the Federal Judgement Fund that these anti-hunting groups use when they can prove merit in their cases. The case doesn't have to be won by them at all. They know this and utilize this tactic quite frequently. I read somewhere that is a tune to $21 million in the past 6 years.
    Increasing MMGW or climate change, one twist off at a time.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,347 AG
    David B wrote: »
    Joe- There is the Federal Judgement Fund that these anti-hunting groups use when they can prove merit in their cases. The case doesn't have to be won by them at all. They know this and utilize this tactic quite frequently. I read somewhere that is a tune to $21 million in the past 6 years.

    Then I guess all you have to do is to get a lawyer to represent you and dip into this fund...maybe you and Chuck can work on that...let us know of your progress.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,347 AG
    huntmstr wrote: »
    That's nonsense. Audubon, Sierra, Defenders of Wildlife and others sue regularly and they still "work" as stakeholders and "partners" with all these state agencies. The overt caution and trepidation is understandable when you have no bite behind the bark. Put some teeth behind the threat of legal action and they will change how they react to us taking a stronger position. Without follow through, these agencies know thy can call our bluff and get away with continuing to bully and push us around.

    Chuck, with all your knowledge on this...I have no idea why you haven't done something and taken SWFWMD to task..... You should form a hunter advocacy group of FS's concerned hunters...get them to throw in some heavy money to get it started...find that pro bono lawyer...get him to access that fund David mentions...and start kicking butt and taking names. Sounds like you have a plan and it's all figured out.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • darkwing duck1darkwing duck1 Posts: 138 Deckhand
    not looking good for 12 noon applications. I am trying to apply for a dupuis dove hunt and the spinning wheel of death has been going for 15 minutes at final checkout. If I cant finalize an on going application what is going to happen when the new ones show up?
  • darkwing duck1darkwing duck1 Posts: 138 Deckhand
    Just got a time out message.
  • JRussellJRussell Posts: 1,411 Officer
    Lol it will probably crash at noon since nothing was fixed.
    The Florida Hunters Network Facebook page
  • FlredbonesFlredbones Posts: 261 Officer
    wow, surprised I was able to get on and apply right at noon. Not that it makes a difference now that its random draw. One thing I've always wondered about. Lets say there's only one area and one hunt available that I want. If I put the same hunt five times does that increase my chances what so ever or would that be the same as just putting it in choice 1 and leaving the other 4 blank?
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