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Data collection and reef fish and other thing.

mdiaczykmdiaczyk Posts: 148 Deckhand
I renewed my fresh salt fishing license. I have a cool hard plastic one coming in the mail. ;)
They asked if I wanted to be part of the data collection for reef fish. What is this?
1 more question because we are in this forum. Off of west central Florida are there commercial shrimp trawlers. How far out and about how deep do they work? I know they kill red snapper but what about grouper and other bottom fish. Red grouper in particular. I know there are places they have to stay away from. Just curious.
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Replies

  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    -Wrong thread?? sorry.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    mdiaczyk wrote: »
    I renewed my fresh salt fishing license. I have a cool hard plastic one coming in the mail. ;)
    They asked if I wanted to be part of the data collection for reef fish. What is this?
    1 more question because we are in this forum. Off of west central Florida are there commercial shrimp trawlers. How far out and about how deep do they work? I know they kill red snapper but what about grouper and other bottom fish. Red grouper in particular. I know there are places they have to stay away from. Just curious.

    md,

    As to asking if you want to be part of a data collection program, from what I've heard, and read here, FL is implementing some kind of offshore reef fish "permit" or "license". You'll need one of those to fish for reef fish, and then FL can call you to ask about your trips.

    As to your shrimp questions, you're asking what you think is a simple question with a simple answer. And your question is apparently based on some "claims" that occurred about the shrimp industry in years past that have since been shown to be less than true.

    I am somewhat familiar with shrimping as I rode some of their boats in years past, but I'm not up to date on current info. Here is what I do know. Yes, shrimping occurs off west Florida; its about 10% of the total shrimp effort in the Gulf. Shrimping occurs from in the bays,with roller rigs, to the outer shelf, plus there is royal red shrimp fishing on the continental slope. Back in my day, red snapper were not present in shrimp trawls as there were no red snapper in the eastern Gulf. I never saw a red grouper either, but I only was on offshore boats.

    As to the rest, a quick google search got lots of hits to questions you asked. Although gag use shallow grass flats that might be trawled by inshore trawlers, juvenile red grouper are farther offshore, but they don't necessarily occupy areas used by shrimpers (reefs and trawl nets don't go together well).

    I urge you to call your Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission, the Gulf Council, or NMFS to get better answers to your questions. They are not simple answers as best I can tell. Don't depend on getting real information from a message board that is inhabited by people with a certain slant.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Don't depend on getting real information from a message board that is being infiltrated by people with a certain condescending attitude who believe the commercials have never, will never, and can never do any wrong.

    FIFY:grin
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    Gulf Shrimpers just signed onto a letter along with certain eNGO's to the DOI to end the
    "Rigs to Reef's" program, preferring the accelerated "Idle Iron" program. Seems entanglement
    is a bigger concern for them than the destruction of long established marine habitat along
    with all marine life associated with it. EDF by the way is silent on this one, apparently not
    wanting to quarrel with their fishing associations. Seems shrimp bycatch is pretty well
    known to be in the 90% range with most all deep-water trawls resulting in dead discards.

    While shallow water complex Groupers are not generally an issue, deep water Groupers are
    part of the discard, as is a lot of other marine life, including Snappers. Of coarse numbers
    today are different than only a decade ago, with much less effort in this industry now.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    This isn’t freaking rocket science, there is a government agency that is already conducting wildlife data from millions of hunters, the USFWS uses a simple survey that all duck and dove hunters must fill out if they are obtaining a migratory bird permit, which is a free permit that is required to be in your possession if you intend to hunt dove or ducks. When you get the permit you fill out a survey where they ask you specific questions about your hunting last year as it pertains to migratory birds. It could easily be applied the same way to recreational saltwater fishing. All the NMFS has to do is go next door the the USFWS and ask them for a copy of the survey and simply change the word duck to fish, it is almost that simple, maybe too complicated for the NMFS though. That would flood their office with very good usable data, much better than the random crap they get now. The NMFS does not want to collect our data isn’t that obvious?
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    Gulf Shrimpers just signed onto a letter along with certain eNGO's to the DOI to end the
    "Rigs to Reef's" program, preferring the accelerated "Idle Iron" program. Seems entanglement
    is a bigger concern for them than the destruction of long established marine habitat along
    with all marine life associated with it. EDF by the way is silent on this one, apparently not
    wanting to quarrel with their fishing associations. Seems shrimp bycatch is pretty well
    known to be in the 90% range with most all deep-water trawls resulting in dead discards.

    When you dump several thousand dead baby red snapper on the deck of the boat from the trawl it only amounts to a couple of hundred pounds maybe. No big deal, remember they go by pounds not number of fish….

    There is a reason there were no red snapper in those nets back then and it was because the trawlers pretty much eliminated them form our waters, since Katrina eliminated the shrimpers the reds are back and hopefully here to stay, we need more restrictions on the shrimping industry, no doubt!
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    surfman wrote: »
    When you dump several thousand dead baby red snapper on the deck of the boat from the trawl it only amounts to a couple of hundred pounds maybe. No big deal, remember they go by pounds not number of fish….

    There is a reason there were no red snapper in those nets back then and it was because the trawlers pretty much eliminated them form our waters, since Katrina eliminated the shrimpers the reds are back and hopefully here to stay, we need more restrictions on the shrimping industry, no doubt!
    so you caught a lot of red snapper in the eastern gulf back then? Or since they were decimated by the shrimp industry here, you must have traveled to AL. or LA. the get your ARS fix which saw as much, if not more deep water shrimping activity.:shrug

    I find you amusing since you seem to think that one year after Katrina we grew 10lb ARS here in the eastern gulf, maybe you need to contact staff at NMFS and let them in on this new strain of super ARS...:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    Back When?? I never gave a date but, the shrimpers knocked them out before 1970 and the snapper that were here after Katrina were mostly small and undersized, huge schools of them like never seen before, sure there were some larger ones also but the majority were all small I never said anything about 10 ARS.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    surfman wrote: »
    There is a reason there were no red snapper in those nets back then
    It's your "back then", you tell me.:rotflmao

    I also like "huge schools like never seen before", :huh
    By whom?
    You?
    Biologists?
    Tooth Fairy?
    GMAFB:grin:grin:grin
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    BTW, there were pretty decent snapper catches in the mid to late 70's off Steinhatchee.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    Commercial divers actually....Tooth fairy to you maybe, you got any?
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    surfman wrote: »
    Commercial divers actually....Tooth fairy to you maybe, you got any?
    All, and a decent dental plan to boot..
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    All, and a decent dental plan to boot..

    you forgot the free kool-ade and cookies they pass out
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    surfman wrote: »
    When you dump several thousand dead baby red snapper on the deck of the boat from the trawl it only amounts to a couple of hundred pounds maybe. No big deal, remember they go by pounds not number of fish….

    There is a reason there were no red snapper in those nets back then and it was because the trawlers pretty much eliminated them form our waters, since Katrina eliminated the shrimpers the reds are back and hopefully here to stay, we need more restrictions on the shrimping industry, no doubt!

    there are so many mis-statements and mis-information ideas in this statement, I'm not sure where to start. No shrimp boat ever dumped THOUSANDS of red snapper, etc.

    But, I will reiterate my suggestion to the original poster to go ask the professionals; not this board.
  • BubbaII wrote: »
    there are so many mis-statements and mis-information ideas in this statement, I'm not sure where to start. No shrimp boat ever dumped THOUSANDS of red snapper, etc.

    But, I will reiterate my suggestion to the original poster to go ask the professionals; not this board.

    So my shrimp boat interactions are mainly along the east coast, but tell me please what kind of juvenile dead fish make up
    the 5 gallon buckets we get from these boats for chum as they discard over 90% of their trawl?
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    So my shrimp boat interactions are mainly along the east coast, but tell me please what kind of juvenile dead fish make up
    the 5 gallon buckets we get from these boats for chum as they discard over 90% of their trawl?
    If you're in possession of undersize ARS for chum you need a ticket.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    If you're in possession of undersize ARS for chum you need a ticket.

    We get undersized Red Snapper in our boat all the time.....When we catch them, we tag them and release.
    Nothing to ticket there. Possession with retainage is another animal. When we get this "chum" we like most
    anglers I know weed out anything questionable. There is a lot of dead finfish coming into these shrimp
    boats and being discarded however. So what makes up the 90% plus of mostly dead discard from deepwater shrimp trawls?
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    Here’s an article, Bubba, will this help you?
    http://m.fisheriessociety.org/proofs/red/hood.final.pdf

    Of course we all know these dang academics don’t know what heck they are talking about though.

    A History of Red Snapper Management
    in the Gulf of Mexico
    Peter B. Hood1, Andrew J. Strelcheck, and Phil Steele
    NOAA Fisheries Service
    Southeast Regional Office
    263 13th Avenue South, St. Petersburg, Florida 33701 USA
    Abstract.—The red snapper Lutjanus campechanus fishery has been in existence in
    the Gulf of Mexico since the mid-1800s. However, management of this species did
    not begin until more than a century afterward. Federal management of the fisheries in
    the Gulf of Mexico began in 1976 with the passage of the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery
    Conservation and Management Act and the establishment of the Gulf of Mexico
    Fishery Management Council (Council). One of the first fishery management plans
    (FMP) developed by the Council was the Reef Fish FMP. This FMP was implemented
    in November 1984 and established the first red snapper size and bag limits. In 1988,
    the stock was determined to be overfished. Since then, the fishery has been managed
    to stay within total allowable catch levels in order to rebuild the stock. Management
    methods have included size limits, bag limits, season closures, trip limits, and license
    limitation programs. The success of these methods has been limited in part due to
    high levels of juvenile red snapper mortality associated with shrimp trawling, high
    rates of discard mortality from the directed fishery,
    and socioeconomic requirements
    of the directed fisheries to maintain some minimal level of harvest.


    The fact is the commercial industry, be it shrimp trawlers or hook and line or bandit fishermen or whatever did the majority of the damage to this fishery long before the recreational fisherman was able to even access this fishery in any numbers. Back in the late 60’s and 70’s there were only so many recreational fishermen running around in 28’ Bertrams fishing the fringes of the snapper grounds.

    Recreational fishermen are not the problem, never have been, in fact we are the best reason this fishery and any other fishery for that matter is recovering at all.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    I have personally seen thousands upon thousands of dead red snapper floating behind shrimp boats.
    Bubba has no clue.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    We get undersized Red Snapper in our boat all the time.....When we catch them, we tag them and release.
    Nothing to ticket there. Possession with retainage is another animal. When we get this "chum" we like most
    anglers I know weed out anything questionable. There is a lot of dead finfish coming into these shrimp
    boats and being discarded however. So what makes up the 90% plus of mostly dead discard from deepwater shrimp trawls?
    Don't know, never been on one. I would hazard a guess it's not grouper as they don't trawl on hard bottom, that was my experience when I fish trapped around them.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • beach_tradebeach_trade Posts: 2,040 Captain
    Scam The Gulf

    POSTED ON OCTOBER 25, 2013
    Perhaps nothing in the propaganda being distributed by the Share the Gulf campaign is as misleading as claims that the commercial catch share program is somehow responsible for the current recovery of Gulf red snapper. Nothing about red snapper is simple, but a look at the history of this fishery reveals that catch shares had virtually no impact on the health of this stock.The management of red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico has long been one of the most contentious fisheries issues around, and the problems are not overnight developments. They have been brewing for more than 30 years. In 1979, the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council determined that red snapper stocks were overfished. An estimated 87 percent drop in recreational harvest from 1980 to 1984 prompted the Gulf Council to create its Reef Fish Management Plan. The plan called for intense restrictions on commercial and recreational catches, coupled with a new-found realization that a significant portion of juvenile red snapper mortality was caused by shrimp trawls.To recover red snapper, fisheries managers continued to clamp down on commercial and recreational anglers yet were unable to implement bycatch reduction devices (BRDs) to reduce commercial Gulf shrimpers’ impact on juvenile red snapper numbers. A 1990 congressional mandate supported by the commercial fishing industry prevented BRDs from being required in federal waters.Reauthorization of the Magnuson-Stevens Act in 1996 presented new rules for preventing overfishing, addressing the issue of bycatch, and rebuilding overfished fisheries. A floor amendment allowed the Gulf Council to finally treat shrimp-fishery bycatch like any other in the country.To reach its red snapper goals, NMFS had to address the problem of bycatch in the shrimping industry. In the spring of 1998, the Gulf Council passed an amendment to require BRDs for shrimp trawls in federal waters. The Texas Shrimp Association sued in opposition to the bycatch reduction requirements and CCA intervened to ensure that shrimp fleet would have to do its part.With the BRD requirement finally in place, the recovery of red snapper was premised on closed seasons, commercial quotas, recreational bag limits, size limits and a 40 percent reduction in bycatch due to BRDs. Assessment work by the Gulf Council in 2004 revealed that these measures did not have the desired effect on red snapper stocks, despite adherence to those quotas by both commercial and recreational fishers. While the quota targets were largely met, studies in 2004 revealed that BRDs had achieved only a 12 percent reduction in red snapper bycatch in the shrimp trawl fishery. Non-compliance by shrimpers was cited as the primary reason for this failure. CCA insisted that it was impossible for the Gulf Council to set the total allowable catch for the directed fishery without taking into account measures to reduce shrimp trawl bycatch.In March of 2005, CCA petitioned the Secretary of Commerce to put emergency measures into effect to end the Gulf of Mexico shrimp fleet's overfishing of red snapper. That petition was denied despite almost 8,000 supporting comments from CCA members and other conservationists around the Gulf Coast. A few months later, CCA filed a lawsuit over Amendment 22 to the Reef Fish Management Plan.“Trying to manage red snapper without addressing shrimp trawl bycatch is like trying to lower your electric bill by buying a more efficient toaster oven. Your electric bill isn’t high because of your toaster oven; it’s the large and leaky air conditioning unit running around the clock,” Russell Nelson, CCA’s consultant to the Gulf Council said at the time.A federal judge ruled in March 2007 that NMFS violated the Magnuson-Stevens Act by failing to implement measures to rebuild red snapper stocks in the Gulf of Mexico including addressing the harm to red snapper caused by shrimp fishing. The judge in the case ordered the shrimp industry to reduce trawl bycatch mortality by 74 percent.It was a landmark ruling, earned by recreational anglers through two lawsuits and the investment of countless hours and resources.However, anyone who has watched the federal management process would naturally doubt NMFS’ willingness or ability to implement that kind of bycatch reduction for a commercial fishery. There would have been justifiable concern over the ultimate effectiveness of the ruling except that Mother Nature took matters into her own hands during the terrible hurricane season of 2005. That was the year the Gulf of Mexico became a shooting gallery for intense storms, two of which – Katrina and Rita – wiped out a significant portion of the domestic shrimping industry. Some reports indicated overall shrimping effort was reduced by 80 percent. Cheap imported shrimp and high fuel prices combined to keep effort down.Whether achieved by a court ruling or natural disaster the end result was the same – shrimping effort was reduced dramatically. And snapper stocks responded. The rejuvenation of Gulf red snapper coincides perfectly with the reduction in shrimp trawl bycatch.original_commercial_rs_harvest1996.jpg?1382725866Catch share proponents are quick to claim that it was the implementation of their program in 2006 that sparked the recovery. But according to the Framework Action to Set the 2013 Red Snapper Commercial and Recreational Quotas and Modify the Recreational Bag Limit prepared by NOAA Fisheries and the Gulf Council, the commercial sector wasunder its quota for the period from 1996 to 2005 already (see table 1.2).That is a critical **** in the righteous armor of catch share proponents.If the commercial sector was already staying within its quota for the 10 years prior to the implementation of the catch share program, then the catch share program made no meaningful difference in the overall health of the stock. Unless, of course, the commercial sector was engaged in egregious poaching that ended only when the catch share program convinced them to care about the fishery because they now thought they owned it.Share the Gulf will try to convince the public and the Council that catch shares have saved the red snapper fishery, but they only served to make a greatly rationalized commercial sector more profitable. The only thing that has fundamentally changed in this fishery over the past 8 years is the reduction of shrimp trawl bycatch, which was won by recreational anglers through a lawsuit and coincided with the most terrible hurricane season in living memory.Trying to cast catch shares as the hero in this story is nothing more than an attempt to Scam the Gulf.Issues: red snapper, Gulf Council , Gulf red snapper, red snapper, Gulf of Mexico Fisheries , NOAA, Gulf of Mexico

    http://www.joincca.org/articles/640
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    BubbaII wrote: »
    there are so many mis-statements and mis-information ideas in this statement, I'm not sure where to start. No shrimp boat ever dumped THOUSANDS of red snapper, etc.

    But, I will reiterate my suggestion to the original poster to go ask the professionals; not this board.

    Let's see NMFS was sued and lost, because by-catch (of juvenile RS) was not being address properly with the early extruder devices and NMFS was allowing excessive by-catch by the shrimp fleet in the Northern Gulf (this was 2003/2004).

    A Koenig/Campbell study determined that as much as 90% of each 1st year class RS was being killed by bottom trawling for shrimp off of LA and TX, this has since been revised to include some of the dead form "dead zones" which seem to have a bigger impact than originally believed, thus letting the shrimpers off the hook for at least a portion of the kill.

    In 2005 the shrimp fleet was decimated and has yet to return to 60% of its previously levels (and may never).
    Katrina had a multiple affect on the RS, first it moved fish around (often called hurricane fish) to areas they had not previously been found in great numbers (eastern Gulf). Combine that with a shrimp industry in 2005/2006 to 2008 operating at less than 50% capacity and we began to see a rebound.

    According to Dr. Shipp however, the overwhelming majority of the come back is due to reefing operations off of the Northern Gulf Coast and controls put in place in 2004.

    As is usual the truth is most likely somewhere in the middle (or a combination of events in this case) where things conspired at the right time to produce very good results.

    One thing is for certain...
    Commercial IFQ can not take the credit nor can NMFS or Dr. Crabtree; the RS have rebounded in spite not because of their management.

    One of the biggest issues is this...
    NMFS fails miserably at actually counting the fish...
    Their random map point selection (without regard to habitat or bottom) often leaves them looking for snapper over sand and mud, they exclude all manmade habitat and as a result are mostly likely only assessing about 1/20th of the actual stock (When the AL DNR finishes its study, I may be able to extrapolate this even further to 1/50 or more).
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    Trust me. There is a shrimp in there somewhere.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    markw4321 wrote: »

    Trust me. There is a shrimp in there somewhere.

    see any red snapper? I know where that pix came from.

    OK...... I did shrimp trawl bycatch research on boats testing BRDs. Bycatch is NOT 90%; never was. That 10-1 ratio was from an old report that cited some 70s reference to a central american trawl fishery.

    Back when Congress mandated the BRD study, which led to BRD regulations in about 1998, there was a massive program. I worked for one of the organizations involved with this research.

    Try reading this article: http://www.galvestonlab.sefsc.noaa.gov/publications/pdf/938.pdf

    I'll give you the short version:
    Based on weight extrapolations from species composition samples, bycatch to targeted shrimp (penaeid or rock) ratios by area and target species (Table 8) were 2.5 in the Gulf penaeid shrimp fishery, 4.3 for the South Atlantic penaeid, and 1.4 in the South Atlantic rock shrimp fishery. Finfish to shrimp ratios for these same fisheries were 2.0, 3.2 and 0.9, respectively.

    Here are links to a couple of older reports that cover the time I worked on this project.
    http://www.galvestonlab.sefsc.noaa.gov/publications/pdf/235.pdf
    http://www.gulfsouthfoundation.org%2Fuploads%2F60_FINAL_REPORT.pdf

    Red snapper were less than 1% of the total catch. I can remember getting as few as 2-3 per trawl, and other times getting 300.

    Tom Hilton, your statement isn't worth replying to, other than to acknowledge its absolute falsehood.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    BubbaII wrote: »
    see any red snapper? I know where that pix came from.

    OK...... I did shrimp trawl bycatch research on boats testing BRDs. Bycatch is NOT 90%; never was. That 10-1 ratio was from an old report that cited some 70s reference to a central american trawl fishery.

    Back when Congress mandated the BRD study, which led to BRD regulations in about 1998, there was a massive program. I worked for one of the organizations involved with this research.

    Try reading this article: http://www.galvestonlab.sefsc.noaa.gov/publications/pdf/938.pdf

    I'll give you the short version:
    Based on weight extrapolations from species composition samples, bycatch to targeted shrimp (penaeid or rock) ratios by area and target species (Table 8) were 2.5 in the Gulf penaeid shrimp fishery, 4.3 for the South Atlantic penaeid, and 1.4 in the South Atlantic rock shrimp fishery. Finfish to shrimp ratios for these same fisheries were 2.0, 3.2 and 0.9, respectively.

    Here are links to a couple of older reports that cover the time I worked on this project.
    http://www.galvestonlab.sefsc.noaa.gov/publications/pdf/235.pdf
    http://www.gulfsouthfoundation.org%2Fuploads%2F60_FINAL_REPORT.pdf

    Red snapper were less than 1% of the total catch. I can remember getting as few as 2-3 per trawl, and other times getting 300.

    Tom Hilton, your statement isn't worth replying to, other than to acknowledge its absolute falsehood.
    Oh snap!

    But I heard something or read something somewhere or some drunk unemployed commercial diver in a bar somewhere told me something to the effect so must must be true.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    Yeah, seeing something with my own eyes over on this side of the Gulf over the least few decades where most of the shrimping occurs is a falsehood.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,892 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »

    I'll give you the short version:

    The short version is: Jimmy cracked corn & I don't care. :rotflmao
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Yeah, seeing something with my own eyes over on this side of the Gulf over the least few decades where most of the shrimping occurs is a falsehood.
    wasn't directed at you.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,595 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Tom Hilton, your statement isn't worth replying to, other than to acknowledge its absolute falsehood.

    Sure looks like it was directed at me.

    The thing is that I am not anti-shrimping - I simply tell it like I see it.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    Same here Tom, and yes I would agree Bubba, if there are no red snapper to catch then there will be no red snapper as bycatch, makes sense to me.

    Commercial fishermen are drunks?? Wow, I never would have known that, learn something new here everyday....
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
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