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Gotta go work the late shift, but rebuttal to what? Haven't seen anything to comment on.
Remove the predators! Or is that just too easy?
Female of a species is key to population control. It ain't complicated. The reason everyone has been restocking predators is because hunters/farmers/ranchers put a hurting on them and the greenie weenies cried and made them stop and reintroduce them.
You don't see them restocking Pumas, etc. in the Appalachians do you, them folk ain't having none of that crap. Put something in the woods to kill off the deer populations and threaten their families and they will get rid of it, protected or not!
Stop the so called greenie weenies, they are screwing everything up!
I can't agree as long as Florida has a statute saying the State can remove a Federal land management agency if they are not properly manage the flora and fauna of this State.
State/FWC is overdue in exercising their feduciary responsibility regarding Federal mismanagement in the Glades region whether Big C, Conservation Areas or whatever.
If the Feds haven't met the threshold described in the excerpt below from pg 5 of the FDEP's comments to the Addition Plan allowing the State/FWC to begin eviction proceedings by now they never will - link to document http://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=352&projectID=11164&documentID=29996
My opinion is that it is FWC's responsibility to begin the reverter process
In the event the United States of America ceases to use the land for purposes of
conservation and protection of the natural resources and scenic beauty of the Big
Cypress Areas, as set forth in the Big Cypress Conservation Act of 1973 and
Public Law 93-440 approved October 11, 1974, title to said land shall automatically
revert to the Board of Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund.
The BOT therefore retains authority over lands that are not yet transferred to the federal
government, as well as a possible reverter in the lands previously conveyed. While the
Draft Plan/EIS does encompass the purposes of conservation and resource protection,
some aspects of the proposed management plan could result in harm to the natural
resources contained in these lands.
Section 253.034(1), F.S., states that “[l]ands acquired pursuant to chapter 259 shall be
managed to serve the public interest by protecting and conserving land, air, water, and
the state’s natural resources. [The] lands shall be managed . . . to ensure the survival of
plant and animal species and the conservation of finite and renewable natural resources.”
Section 253.034(5)(b), F.S., provides that management goals must include measurable
objectives for habitat restoration and improvement, hydrological preservation and
restoration, sustainable forest management, and imperiled species habitat maintenance,
enhancement and restoration, all of which require appropriate prescribed fire as a
management tool. Finally, Section 259.032(10)(e), F.S., requires management plans to
contain key management activities necessary to achieve “restoring habitat, protecting
threatened and endangered species, controlling the spread of nonnative plants and
animals, performing prescribed fire activities, and other appropriate resource management.”
Inadequate management activities on federal lands that lie adjacent to stateowned
lands could result in harm to resources on state conservation lands and impact
state land managers’ ability to implement meaningful control
Really? :rotflmao
I always put on my tinfoil hat when binellishtr starts ranting..... I don't want that darn " Gub-ment" reading my thoughts.
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
Yes...that is very ironic...a true conundrum.
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
A very important aspect...that some will refuse to acknowledge...till it is too late.
It is always important in the art of negotiation....to never "dig in"...and always be open to new strategies and new allies.
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
Sorry but its my opinion . And there are tomany animals that eat snakes to think there are that many out there . If there was you would see them as common as a rat snake . Yes they are there but in no means as many as they want you to think . they just have a scap goat instead of saying the panther is eating all the furr animals in the south .
I really appreciate your taking the time from Ga to educate us here. I mean you know all about wolf reintroduction and all.
I agree the experimental population ESA/USFWS trick is possible and can be used to avoid a public discussion regarding relocation of cats except with private landowners that get paid to allow the Fl sub species to be sort of snuck in on their private land so as to move to everyone elses land public and private on the sly. I also agree that the experimental status can allow killing them for cause because the snuck in cats are down listed to threatened status. Ha Ha wait until they try that in Fla -y'all in North Ga will hear the Fla enviro mafia howling panther with a red hot rod stuck up in it's guts..
By the way your use of the "experimental" indicates to me that you are very experienced in this panther matter sort of like an agency professional or one of their slick partners since I know few if any agency outsiders that are aware of that relatively obscure information and how it works.
Question - Are you a government professional involved in selling Fl Panthers to Ga and now doing it in Florida?
Just curious.
Last Question - If your just a regular Ga hunter Why are you taking your time to share all this with us? I would think the time would be more wisely spent in Ga selling the cat up there?
Again Just Curious.
Bein's as we're both gentlemen we may just have to politely disagree on this one. I have my life experiences and you have yours. Maybe they are just dramatically different.
I'm down in the weeds in Big C often and talk with residents all over the place as well as hunters and Indians that know one hell of a lot more than what is publicized about this topic and how frequently whoppers are being found and, killed rules or no rules..
You start by being smarmey.... moving forward with being accusatory.... and end with a nice passive/aggressive comment.
I hope you will not be representing hunters..or we are screwed!
Many things to do.
Knots to be unraveled
'fore the darkness falls on you
Do we continue to bendover and BOHICA ourselves.
I'd wager to say you were in your early 40's when all this started and was taken away, 25 plus yrs....yeah, lets keep being politically correct and loose another generation of hunters
I do not see any single predatory critter as the the only one causing the most damage. The topography changes so much in South Florida that the top predator in one area is weak or has fewer numbers in another. IMO...They are all an issue on their own merits.
There are a ton of snakes south of 41 and east of Oasis. Not a single time in multiple years did I go out south of the loop or east of Rock Rd and not come across a snake or two. Add the coyotes in and you've got two invasive predators working alongside the cats. Heck I was on the porch two nights ago in EC and heard coyotes.
I just try to educate folks to info most don't have. I admit sometimes I have attitude issues.
I think it helps folks form a better basis for how to proceed on issues and who and what to believe and/or take the time to actively engage themselves in..
If I'm wrong I greatly appreciate being called out privately or publicly.
But Heck, you're chewin on me for asking questions - That sounds like a desire to stay uninformed which is scary to me. I would always prefer knowing more rather then less.
I readily admit without even being asked that I am not credentialed or a professional in land or carnivore management but I have studied like heck for a long long time (16 years or so). In fact I feel cleaner not being a complicit professional in these issues due to needing the government paycheck. That is not to say all government employees are bad - in fact some are excellent as can be.
We're still talking about predators which are part of the original thread. Sometimes it may be good to diversify a topic to look at it from one narrow angle.
In fact in some government meetings they shut you down for straying because they don't want to hear what one has to say. Personally I think they are stupid to do that because they are denying themselves the ability to learn.
The ranch payment may be more complicated than originally conceived. This thread straying to slightly different issues isn't necessarily bad and may even wind up assisting any government trolls lurking with the PES $$$ issue as well as others.
No sense keeping concerns all bottled up - but that may just be me.
Totally agree that predators are a big seldom addressed issue that needs addressing even if with species specific poison bait if we sportsmen can't handle the task.
Either way Ms Bondi or FWC works for me but my FWC premise was based on maybe the wrong belief that they are in charge of protecting fish and wildlife they might should be the one to start the process.
I do know what you mean though about lack of desire to proceed. That is why nowadays I will protest what is going on to anyone who will listen or even those who would rather not listen.
Hey Newton - Please push your idea - The panther needs to be "present and rare".
God I Love that Statement.
Frankly,... UW-F was a "sponsor" of the Python Challenge and we were at the several events.....I do not see much chance of ever putting a major dent in the population....they are here to stay...Those people who went out and hunted for them were stymied by the difficulty of the habitat and the fact that a snake could be two feet away and not seen....The biologist I have talked to say the best way to find them is to put a radio on a female and release her back into the wild....track her down and usually there will be several males nearby to be caught. Also, I heard a presentation by the lady who has trained dogs to find them...... But this is slow going and with females carrying up to 80 eggs per brood the prospects are not good that any method will be found to have meaningful impact.
Believe it or not I appreciate what you share here no matter what duckmanJR thinks my motivations are. As I admitted I do get somewhat attitudish sometimes but I still hold back a lot of the angst that has grown over the decades on these issues.
As for me I am 65+ and lived on the same street all but 6 months of my life. Have and still do hunt So Fl and the Glades HARD for over 50 years now and as I said to duckman have been involved in these issues for over 16 years almost full time to my financial detriment.
I may have bordered on being accusatory with you but you might worry too if you were in my shoes knowing the lengths panther advocates and agencies go to to get what they want. I do respect you sharing your wealth of knowledge to help us but Florida is so far down the wrong fork from what I can see there is little to gain with our government and the well oiled enviros they and we are up against here.
I knew you were a pro in something with that ESA technicality - it is great to know a hunter dug that up and shared it - and on top of that you're a lawyer. OBTW I don't laugh much at lawyer jokes because I know the vast majority are great people that fight for fairness.
Have a Good One and keep the info flowing here even if we may not all always agree.
I envy you growing up where and when you did. You have done and seen things I can only dream about. I love swamps and spend as much time as I can in them. I did get to hunt bears in FLA way back when with my grandfather and his friends on St. Joe land back when you just paid 5 dollars a year for a hunting pass on all their north FLA land. Then, Wakulla and Franklin counties were some of the last "old Florida" left and avoided the developer's drawing board until very recently. I know that in GA the Ga Wildlife Federation is really strong, and I would assume Florida has an a sister organization. It is very active in GA and lobbies much more than all the tree hugging groups combined. As you might know, it is made up of hunting groups, trapping groups, fishing groups and professional land management groups. I know north FLA has many more pro-hunters than anti-hunters but then again FLA appears to be divided much more north state vs. south state than GA.
The reason I am saying this because bears in GA is a fine example. We sucsessfully sued to get a bear season years ago, and now our hunting areas for them are continually expanded and now, as of last year, so has our annual bag limit. Bears are the Panthers of most of the eastern US and states in which hunters got involved in management issues early on all have hunting seasons for them. We get the DNR on our side, (our version of FWC). They really do have a vested interest in hunting, that is what pays their salaries in GA and in most other states. The revenue from licenses fees (hunting, fishing and trapping)...it is a constitutional requirement in GA, Licenses fees by law have to go to expanding and protecting the right to hunt in GA.
Oh, and I like a good lawyer joke by the way. If people in my profession couldn't laugh at ourselves from time to time, we would go crazy. I also have a very thick skin, and I have no problem with people having different takes on issues than I do, that is part of life.
About as far as the course you're on will take you. Hope you bought alot of that Wisconsin cheese to go with your favorite thing.
Now on occassion they get it right but where I hunt they ain't in charge so what they do do is talk a good show although some of us understand they have no real authority over millions of acres. I think they want to hunt bears but don't know if they will fight the fight that it will take to get it in. Have seen it written that many are waiting for fatalities by bears to generate the necessary impetus. That's how sad things are Florida IMO. Another large part of the problem may be elected officials up to the Governor worried about losing enviro votes which may be critical to not only Dems but also some Reps.
Anyway here's an article that may derail this thread - Can't say I disagree with the public safety inference of it contains
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2014/08/florida_panthers_return_spells_doom_for_gladesmen.php