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binellishtr
Posts: 8,797 Admiral
More good news for big ranches
binellishtr
Posts: 8,797 Admiral
Pretty soon due to the negligence of the FWS and FWC ranchers will be compensated for natural and non natural predation on their land.
Weather it be a bear,coyote,or flugar WE THE PEOPLE will once again bare the cost of an over populated region of Predators.
I am sympathetic towards landowners who loose calves but it is because of negligence,and GREED amongst the connected agencies that this problem has gotten so out of hand. If nature was left to run its own course,we wouldn't have this problem.
Who owns the deer in FLorida, how do we get compensated for our losses? Should be what's good for the goose is good for the .......
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-study-blames-lost-calves-panthers-083303082.html
Weather it be a bear,coyote,or flugar WE THE PEOPLE will once again bare the cost of an over populated region of Predators.
I am sympathetic towards landowners who loose calves but it is because of negligence,and GREED amongst the connected agencies that this problem has gotten so out of hand. If nature was left to run its own course,we wouldn't have this problem.
Who owns the deer in FLorida, how do we get compensated for our losses? Should be what's good for the goose is good for the .......
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-study-blames-lost-calves-panthers-083303082.html
Replies
I'd like to know as well. Prolly twice what's fair.
Is 5 acres big enough ?
How much do they pay us for Chickens , Are Ducks more?
Anybody ever raised a BUNCH of Chickens ?
How many can I fit on 5 acres ? I can Stake them out with Tent stakes and Shoe laces
I'm thinkin this could work well...
Cattle are hiiiiiggggghhhh right now....better sharpen their pencils.
I pass the salt and call bullshiat on this one. They **** well knew where they were raising beef when they started doing so. So if the weatherman predicts rain and it doesn't happen, can I be expected to receive relief funds for it. How specifically are they protecting the species? A species that roams. Vultures fly, coyotes, bears and panthers roam. If you live near a swamp, you have snakes. If you live in S. Florida and raise beef, you may have predators. The beef isn't native. I say it's the wrong way around. The FWS, The FWC, DWF and Hug the Panther should be charging these folks for taking away from the native ranges. Place impacts fees on them, large fees. After all it is the cost of business.
I'm gonna start a fire ant ranch, and mosquito preserve! where can i sign up for the gubbament cheese?
So you think because the general public (drama queens) wants an overpopulation of these cats that the ranchers cattle should be a food source for them at the ranchers expense? Are you aware of the density of these cats on the Priddy ranch? This property was picked for the study due to the HIGH density of cats located there. It is located next to THE PANTHER REFUGE. These P.O.S's are killing thousands of dollars worth of cattle a year as well as taking a serious toll on our wildlife. It's a B.S. program anyway because of the requirement for a panther biologist must determine it was a panther kill in order for them to be granted funds. It's all another smokescreen to protect to cats. If you think the ranchers are going to collect any serious funds with this program you are mistaken.
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The rest of you, play nice. It's been pretty easy going around here lately. Don't go making work for me and James now.
I had you pissed off at hello.
I have problems with this notion that the ranchers should be paid for their loss due to predation. That money is coming from you and I and others, not some magical funding source.
The article states that almost 10% of the calves were lost. When looking at 400 calves and reading that 10 were lost, that doesn't add up (bad reporting or an inflated quote). 10% of 400 would be 40. 10 calves would be 2.5% loss to predation. I can show you statistical reports that state 3.7% death rate occurs in calves due to nitrate toxicosis annually. There are further reports that show even further numbers of death beyond this. We do not pay directly to the Rancher for these deaths. It is the cost of operation. Now lets look at the argument that by saving this land from development that we are saving the panther.
The JB Ranch was recently ranked third in a three tier ranking system for protection and funding from the FLDEP.
Here is the listing from the DEP and the land uses that occur on the ranch.
J B Ranch
6657
Collier
Pasture - 2170 Row Crops - 515 Natural Areas - 3966
Agricultural/Rural
Cow/calf operation, row crops, hunting & mining
NRCS EQIP-A, CSP, WHIP, & FWC-FNAI Managed Lands
The ranch was purchased by the James family in the 1940s as a cow/calf operation. The original name of the property is JB Ranch, with the previous owners making most of the improvements. The ranch is well maintained with the improvements and land being in very good condition. The landowners take any opportunity that presents itself to make an economic return on the property without compromising the natural values of the property. Additional revenue generation activities include rock mining, oil and gas drilling, high-end outfitter hunting, crop leasing, etc. This ranch is an excellent example of a well-integrated agriculture operation with conservation considerations.
Do you see where I find fault with this reasoning about the article and those asking for a predation fee for their losses. The Florida Cattle Rancher has been enjoying the rise in the cost of calves at the market now for two years. Some speculate that it will continue. Calves sales have exceeded an all time high.
I agree with you on many points about the panther and it's current population levels. I am not hugging the kitty as you may have thought by my initial posting. There is a carry capacity for the current population and that must be accepted, be it a number much less than anything historical before Florida became what it is. I won't move to Arizona and try to farm corn and then ask for monies when it fails and the rancher shouldn't be expecting anything when they ranch within the traditional range of predators either.
One of the best uses of common sense I've read on this forum in a long time.
This is just another subsidy, welfare, government teat whichever you deem it to be when money is handed out that you don't agree with but agree with when it's dealing with something you support.
Agree. I understand the the conditions have changed for cattle ranchers, and I have to say, I'd be a bit bent out of shape with our government's devotion to the cat who's domain is diminishing. But it is the cattleman that must adapt and change. Lord knows the panthers aren't going anywhere.
The only thing constant in this life is change.
What happens when a new development moves into an area, woods and pasture are destroyed to build houses that are being purchased by tax payers. Well what happens to the animals? Well they have to go somewhere. So the rancher that has had land in his family, making a living, for generations is now over run with animals that are displaced by all the new movement to Florida, predators and non-predators alike. So how is this the rancher's fault? He hasn't had a problem for generations? Let's not forget who puts that cheeseburger or steak on your grill. Keep trying the American rancher and agriculture and you can start speaking Chinese, because that's where your food will come from.
What do u get when you can connect the dots, color inside the lines, and get your release papers.....sentence served, times up at Felon sentenced university.
Floridas first woman's college.
The only difference between FSU and all the other colleges are other colleges accept you into the university's. At FSU you are taken into custody.
totally agree...but let's not put 350 panthers in a cage with insufficient land/and or available sustainable food supply for all.
This land is my land, and their land....not their land, which FWS and FWC have forgotten,
What we are running out of is common sense. What we have no lack of are excuses.
To every causation there is an effect and visa versa. Many of the ranchers and farmers or their heirs have put the rest of the ranchers and farmers in the predicament they are in now by selling land to development when the patriarch dies or when the market is right for the selling. Here in my own back yard I have witnessed both scenarios. And although it saddens me to see so much land get developed, it is the right of the land owner to do so without reprisal from the public or the government. That's the burden and right that property ownership brings.
In terms of food and providing livestock for meat or produce for consumption, farm bill subsidy, as well as conservation easements and other government programs designed to pay farmers and ranchers for not producing, for losses or for other hazards, has added as much to the problem insomuch as they have created the dangerous affect of instances where loss is more lucrative than production.
The panther predation suggestion is no different in that sense.
And while I firmly believe in and appreciate the struggles of ranchers in today's ever increasing climate of urban encroachment, it is to a good degree a problem of their own making. No one forces them to sell their land. No one forces them to stay in the business. As far as what foods we produce and how much we need... suffice to say we are still the top producer of most of the world's beef, chicken, pork and grain. Only some of the produce we purchase is imported from South America and that is usually seasonal. The majority of the foods we consume are domestic and there is plenty left over for export.
I agree with David on this issue and the way he has voiced his opinion. Clearly there is a median level of predation to be expected and clearly most of the larger ranching operation are well diversified in their business model. Anyone ranching on a large scale that is not diversified and invested in other resource based business is either stupid, hard headed or both. I refuse to accept them crying poor-mouth when the economics are clearly in their favor and the consumer and tax payer is the one left to foot the bill.
I had you pissed off at hello.
Simple answer dew man - Freedom of Speech
This site is like America - If u don't like it leave it.
Freedom of Speech should rule unless folks get to cussing - personally I think that is OK too.
Serious issues bring out passion - that passion should be allowed to flow - we are under enough totalitarian control from the dear sweet government and that's just about more than any reasonable American should stand for.
If anyone thinks this thread is getting hot wait until I post what I'm gettin ready to - maybe the next on the list.
Yep - We're due for a lot less panther loving.
That would be a great change.