Plea to the NMF

Tom Hilton

Some Gulf Council members apparently think it is a good idea to introduce "Catch Sharing" into the Gulf red snapper fishery - this is where the charter captains lease their fish from the commercial sector. Not a good idea.

This has ALREADY been done up in Alaska - it isn't pretty.


http://www.alaskacharter.org/letters.htm

http://www.alaskacharter.org/docs/Final%20ACA%20Comments%20on%20CSP%2008262013.pdf

http://www.alaskacharter.org/docs/ACAtoNMFSon2013CSP.pdf

http://www.alaskacharter.org/index.html

Typiclese

surfman wrote: »

...the red snapper have always been there hiding behind the oil rigs where the NMFS doesn’t go to count fish.
.

Until NOAA started blowing up the old rigs....taking untold thousands of ARS with them.

blub-blub-blubba; good point surfman made....up until what say unicorn fantasy land day 0 that NMFS pulled some BS number form the rainbow to stick it in there crappy model, spew forth tons of rubbish and dead discard and then have the audacity to proclaim it "science".

ANUMBER1

Surfman, would you care to explain why the western gulf (with a huge shrimp fleet) had plenty of ARS in the late 80's & early 90's while we here in the eastern gulf had very few ARS?

surfman

They have oil rigs, that might have helped. Texas also has closed seasons on their shrimping it seems to be much better controlled then the rest of the gulf.

ANUMBER1

surfman wrote: »

They have oil rigs, that might have helped. Texas also has closed seasons on their shrimping it seems to be much better controlled then the rest of the gulf.

Only in state waters.

surfman

How close can you get to an oil rig with one of those trawlers? I can’t explain it maybe you can?

Can you explain why we had a red snapper fishery up until the late 60s, early 70’s, and then there were absolutely none? I fished in the middle grounds a few times in the late 90’s and we never caught a red snapper. Suddenly, after 2005, we are covered up in juvenile red snapper, not mature fish but juvenile fish. Where did they come from? Were they always there just being swept up every year by trawlers? What happened? I know the NMFS will say it is their conservation work but, the fishery is not going to go from nothing to flooded in one year from just a reduction in bag limits.

Tom Hilton

The red snapper off of the west coast of Florida were redistributed over there by the hurricanes Ivan and Katrina, I believe.

ANUMBER1

Tom Hilton wrote: »

The red snapper off of the west coast of Florida were redistributed over there by the hurricanes Ivan and Katrina, I believe.

That's my thoughts also.

Surfman, those snapper started showing up as you stated around 04-05, but the sows were there also, wasn't all juveniles.

Tom Hilton

In effect, the artificial reefing zones off of Alabama and Florida Panhandle have "seeded" the present population of red snapper off of the west coast of Florida. Artificial reefs not only "produce" fish, but they are distribution centers as well.

markw4321

I can personally verify that ivan dramatically increased the red grouper population off pensacola. they were few and far between up until Ivan.

Bubba

Tom Hilton wrote: »

In effect, the artificial reefing zones off of Alabama and Florida Panhandle have "seeded" the present population of red snapper off of the west coast of Florida. Artificial reefs not only "produce" fish, but they are distribution centers as well.

Capt. Tom, you might want to get this whole article

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/250020142_Red_Snapper_Larval_Transport_in_the_Northern_Gulf_of_Mexico

short version is that there is no current flow that can distribute larvae from either the western or north central Gulf down to peninsular florida. There is a weak distribution west to east across the north central gulf, but nothing going south.

Tom Hilton

Bubba,
You might want to talk with Dr. Bob Shipp. The storms redistributed mature fish eastward - not larvae.

Bubba

Tom Hilton wrote: »

Bubba,
You might want to talk with Dr. Bob Shipp. The storms redistributed mature fish eastward - not larvae.

hmmmmmm....... I always heard it was the pipeline. Besides, there were red snapper off peninsular florida before Katrina.

http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/sedar/download/SEDAR7_DW18.pdf?id=DOCUMENT

Tom Hilton

Pipeline? That's pretty rich. The natural gas pipeline that extends from Dauphin Island to Tampa Bay exceeds depths of over 600 feet. Not going to be a major snapper corridor at those depths - sorry. Now, the mitigation reefs that were placed on/near the pipeline certainly helped PRODUCE fish, yes.

Kinda reminds me of the "science" that LSU's Jim Cowan put forth to counter the notion that the AL/FL panhandle artificial reefs weren't producing the fish but simply "attracting" them - he claimed they were migrating to the reefs from banks offshore of Texas!!! That's right - he certainly made that ludicrous claim, and I had to call him up on the phone to confirm it. Unbelievable.

Funny what kind of "science" enviro $$$ can attract AND produce.

ACME Ventures Fishing

Maybe this is how they are moving. These 28" to 32" Red Snapper, hundreds in each school
are following and feeding along weedlines on Florida's east coast. The bottom structure is still
thick with them, no thermocline moving them, just a lot of fish overgrowing their habitat and
on the move looking for food and new habitat. Like the GOM, they have likely exceeded their
'Historic Virgin Stock levels', yet we are still closed and only open 8 days this year under an
'Emergency Rule' to allow a small 'Season'. Seems more a move to appease the masses seeing
the reality of the stock levels every day they fish, and to get data they are not getting while
closed.

Bubba

Tom Hilton wrote: »

Pipeline? That's pretty rich.

I didn't say I believed it. I said I "heard it". Same with you heard "katrina moved all those fish". There simply is no documentation of the causes of the population expansion, and its probably from a variety of reasons, not just one.

Tom Hilton

The main reason is that the artificial reefs off of AL/FL panhandle PRODUCE fish. The reefs have seeded the resurgence of red snapper off of the Tampa area.

Huckleberry

Hurricane Ivan Blew all the Red Snapper Eastward and or westward, and for some reason blew a whole bunch of Grouper from the deep deep, or from somewhere I don't know. The summer after Ivan and before Katrina was the worst summer ever for red snapper off of Alabama, it was like there was no red snapper to be found, most of the charter boats fished deep water every trip. The November after Katrina a whole new batch of red snapper moved in off of Alabama, they were from 12 to 14 inches long and they were here by the thousands on every reef, like overnight they moved in, I have no idea where they came from but they were here, they actually were on all the natural bottom first then on the artificial wrecks, what wrecks were left after Ivan, Hurrican Ivan completely destroyed or covered up most all the artificial reefs off of Alabama. The next snapper season there were plenty of fish over 16 inches but a lot of tail pinchers, but the Charter Boats were back to catching limits every trip again. These fish have never left and have just gotten bigger over time, for a long time there seemed to be no recruitment, no new fish no different sized just these fish that came after Katrina, they were like cookie cutter fish all the same size give or take an inch or two. We now actually have all sizes of fish from undersize to very big. Very healthy stock of fish again like it was in 2004 and 2005.