Plea to the NMF

RK McLeanRK McLean Posts: 8 Greenhorn
Please, please, please DO NOT SCHEDULE OUR OPEN RED SNAPPER SEASON, if we get one this year, on the Atlantic coast during the months of July and August. Anyone who has any experience fishing this coast knows this is the red snapper egg bearing season. Last year, during your ill conceived one day open season, most all the fish were full of roe. So, last year, in your endearing and "scientific" effort to save the "endangered" red snapper, you allowed us to keep one fish each and killed many hundreds of future fish. Nice piece of species protection science you guys! PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS ERROR AGAIN.
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Replies

  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 10,582 AG
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 4,948 Captain
    ooops...


    Don't worry, they know what they are doing.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • BubbaBubba Posts: 204 Deckhand
    OK....... July/Aug is spawning period. Agreed; a negative, but also when most people can go fishing.

    If they made the season in Sept/Oct, somebody would complain its the height of hurricane season. If they made it Jan/Feb, somebody would complain its too rough and cold. if they made it Apr/May, somebody would complain school is still in session. If they made it weekdays, someone would complain they only get off work on weekends. When they make it weekends only, people complain they don't have Sat/Sun off; their day off is mid-week.

    I'll ask a serious question: What days are best?
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    If the Gulf recreational red snapper quota was expected to be caught by June 9th, then why are the 17 headboats still able to fish for red snapper? They were supposedly going to be required when the quota was thought to be met. Perhaps since the weather was a little rough that those 17 boats get to finish out our quota?
  • Fintastic.IncFintastic.Inc Posts: 251 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    If the Gulf recreational red snapper quota was expected to be caught by June 9th, then why are the 17 headboats still able to fish for red snapper? They were supposedly going to be required when the quota was thought to be met. Perhaps since the weather was a little rough that those 17 boats get to finish out our quota?

    It was my understanding that those head boats in the pilot program each received their own (vessel) quota for the season, (i.e. The double eagle had 997 individual Red Snapper). I think the reason they are still able to target them is that they have not yet met their quote. I could be wrong though.
    www.fintasticinc.com
    Lagerhead Fishing Team
    Team Cabo Loco
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    The quota was estimated to be caught in 9 days, supposedly due to state noncompliance and considering the amount of fish given to these 17 boats. Yet...they continue fishing?

    They are fishing under 2011 season numbers (in 2014?) with over double the fish they have been given - one boat was given 8,779 fish - enough to take his entire 80 person boat out 55 days and put them ALL on full limits of snapper - there weren't even 55 days in the 2011 season, much less considering weather days.

    The system has been rigged to make IFQs look better than they really are.
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    It was my understanding that those head boats in the pilot program each received their own (vessel) quota for the season, (i.e. The double eagle had 997 individual Red Snapper). I think the reason they are still able to target them is that they have not yet met their quote. I could be wrong though.

    The HB scheme quota is part of the total Rec quota and was supposed to be
    closed when the rec quota was determined to be met. Perhaps the NMFS is
    playing a game with the 20% buffer and while stopping all other recs from ARS
    harvest allowing the HB game to continue. Not supposed to be that way, but then
    again the HB's did not get their quota adjusted down in all reality as the rest of
    the recreational anglers did.....despite them having their quota based on seasons used
    in the AM reduction determination placed on all other anglers. Neither Fair or Equitable.
  • BubbaBubba Posts: 204 Deckhand
    what do headboats in the Gulf have to do with this thread? Nice attempt at a derail.
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 385 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    what do headboats in the Gulf have to do with this thread? Nice attempt at a derail.

    Funny, pot calling the kettle black.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    Bubba wrote: »
    what do headboats in the Gulf have to do with this thread? Nice attempt at a derail.

    The headboat EFP is just one example of how the enviros have hijacked (derailed) our fisheries management.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,331 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    OK.......

    I'll ask a serious question: What days are best?

    Seriously???????? What days are best for what?:shrug
    Best days for catching genuines lately are any days with a Y in them. Best days for this forum are any days that you don't post propaganda.:grin

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • bay20bay20 Posts: 1,490 Officer
    don't give rats **** cant wait to kill some snapper
  • BubbaBubba Posts: 204 Deckhand
    Seriously???????? What days are best for what?:shrug
    Best days for catching genuines lately are any days with a Y in them. Best days for this forum are any days that you don't post propaganda.:grin

    Agreed; a day with a Y is a good day to fish. But the original post said every Y day in Jun/Jul was bad because of spawning. Just pointing out that other opinions prevail as well and complain when Y days Oct/Nov are picked, or Y days in Jan/Feb are picked. Bottom line is you can't please everybody. Someone would complain if you said you can have a million if you show up at Mt. Rushmore on Thursday: "I can't be there til Friday; move the deadline".

    So my question stands: When would be the best time to have a short, limited South Atlantic red snapper recreational season? Just want to see if someone here can provide an answer that isn't full of grist. And they don't have to be judged right/wrong; everyone has an opinion. Just curious as to what alternatives folks consider to be reasonable.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,331 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    So my question stands: When would be the best time to have a short, limited South Atlantic red snapper recreational season?

    Oh that question:rolleyes
    It has been answered for you here many times you just keep ignoring the answer.

    The best time to have a short, limited South Atlantic red snapper recreational season would be right after all commercial harvest had been eliminated. As long as there are enough fish to warrant any commercial harvest there should be a year round 1 or 2 fish per day recreational season.

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    Oh that question:rolleyes
    It has been answered for you here many times you just keep ignoring the answer.

    The best time to have a short, limited South Atlantic red snapper recreational season would be right after all commercial harvest had been eliminated. As long as there are enough fish to warrant any commercial harvest there should be a year round 5 or 6 fish per day recreational season.

    FIFY
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,046 Admiral
    Oh that question:rolleyes
    It has been answered for you here many times you just keep ignoring the answer.

    The best time to have a short, limited South Atlantic red snapper recreational season would be right after all commercial harvest had been eliminated. As long as there are enough fish to warrant any commercial harvest there should be a year round 1 or 2 fish per day recreational season.
    dream on.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • BubbaBubba Posts: 204 Deckhand
    Oh that question:rolleyes
    It has been answered for you here many times you just keep ignoring the answer.

    The best time to have a short, limited South Atlantic red snapper recreational season would be right after all commercial harvest had been eliminated. As long as there are enough fish to warrant any commercial harvest there should be a year round 1 or 2 fish per day recreational season.

    Like I said, no answer is right or wrong. but I really had hoped for a reasoned response.
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    When would be the best time to have a short, limited South Atlantic red snapper recreational season?

    Why "Short" and Why "Limited"? The South Atlantic NEVER should have had ARS shut down to
    start with as anyone familiar with the chain of events that took place leading to it. Perhaps the
    real question should be what will it take for the NMFS to correct the wrong they committed. We
    see ARS off east central Florida move in shallower during the traditional winter spawning closure
    but then again mid summer during the thermoclines. With the Gulfstream waters however, we always
    have ARS in fishable waters off our coast year round sometime 10 miles out, sometimes 20, and
    in more recent years pretty much in all places between, including following bait pods at the surface
    and along weedlines, which we seen many times. Our average tagged fish is 29" and since circle
    hook mandated recaptures the same day are common.

    So if were going to be realistic, Short and Limited is what we have now at 8 days, but what we are
    seeing on the water represents so much more. I would say at least 1 (5) day work week and (1)
    3 day weekend per month on non spawning season month's. 1 fish per person is fair with a 20" min.
    Short fish are rarely caught here in deeper waters.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,046 Admiral
    long cat anyone?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Capt EasyCapt Easy Posts: 203 Officer
    I don't know, I never bought into the spawning season closures. To me it doesn't matter when you catch the fish it will not be spawning the following year.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,331 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    Like I said, no answer is right or wrong. but I really had hoped for a response that fit in with my "exploit the public resource for a few greedy individuals financial gain" viewpoint.

    FIFY

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • redskynightredskynight Posts: 11 Greenhorn
    Have to agree with Bubba here... you can make it whatever days you want SOMEONE will ***** I didn't get to fish for them in the fall of 2013 cause the weather SUCKED at least they're putting it on the weekends this time and in a time of year when weather is almost always favorable. Its only 8 days anyway and I don't see any harm being done spawning season or not... not everyone will be able to fish

    I'd rather it was 8 days straight because I fish when I want and everyone else is relegated to the weekends and it'd be less crowded for me my buddies and my customers... but I maintain that three we ends in a row is fair even though it SHOULD BE LONGER and the OP might disagree with the timing at least until he went fishing with me to see how abundant they have become... they're like reef cockroaches.... 8 days won't hurt a thing....
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,580 Captain
    Just give us our 6 month season back and let's stop micromanaging something into oblivion.
  • BubbaBubba Posts: 204 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Just give us our 6 month season back and let's stop micromanaging something into oblivion.

    Again, Tom, I ask, what does your gulf 6 month season have to do with south atlantic red snapper season? You just looking to tag onto any thread you can to continue your rant? Have you even done the math for 200K lb per day X 180 days? Or even 100,000 lb per day (less willingness to pay)?

    here is just another day in FL state waters after the end of the federal season:

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?158715-Stingwray-PC-6-13-14-Always-my-favorite-trip

    do the math.

    ACME...... thank you for the reasoned reply (you normally don't give me that). Maybe your offer of an option will stimulate more constructive comment by others that the SAFMC can use.
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 385 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    Again, Tom, I ask, what does your gulf 6 month season have to do with south atlantic red snapper season? You just looking to tag onto any thread you can to continue your rant? Have you even done the math for 200K lb per day X 180 days? Or even 100,000 lb per day (less willingness to pay)?

    here is just another day in FL state waters after the end of the federal season:

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?158715-Stingwray-PC-6-13-14-Always-my-favorite-trip

    do the math.

    ACME...... thank you for the reasoned reply (you normally don't give me that). Maybe your offer of an option will stimulate more constructive comment by others that the SAFMC can use.

    Although I humbly respect most everything ACME has to say, I don't think he means surrender to the IFQ frankenstein. Unlike the rest of your ilk he's trying to proffer a "reasonable man" solution to the Gordian knot our fisheries are in as a result of bureaucrats, probably smells like you, have put us.

    I'm sure you're dreaming of unicorns, skittles, rainbows and the day sector separation is fully implemented in the rec sector. Dream on bubba man, dream on.
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 385 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    here is just another day in FL state waters after the end of the federal season:

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?158715-Stingwray-PC-6-13-14-Always-my-favorite-trip

    do the math.

    No bubba, why don't you and NMFS do the math. Most of us are still waiting on our telephone survey. Garbage in, garbage out.

    Give us our 6 month season back and stop micromanaging.
  • BubbaBubba Posts: 204 Deckhand
    Typiclese wrote: »
    No bubba, why don't you and NMFS do the math. Most of us are still waiting on our telephone survey. Garbage in, garbage out.

    Give us our 6 month season back and stop micromanaging.

    again........ what does a gulf 6 month season have to do with south atlantic red snapper season? ACME answered to the question.

    The rest of you are just using this thread to pound the pulpit.
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    Bubba wrote: »
    again........ what does a gulf 6 month season have to do with south atlantic red snapper season? ACME answered to the question.

    The rest of you are just using this thread to pound the pulpit.

    Gotta remember that while I stated a VERY conservative idea for a YEAR Round season made
    up of 8 days a month, it is important to know that the South Atlantic ARS fishery should never
    have been closed to start with. Under current MS provisions, or at least NMFS interpretation
    of them, the ARS will never be open, at least for decades under anything but the emergency
    rules we see now.

    This process is what is in need of complete overhaul or replacement, much like the GOM's
    mismanagement process. We in the South Atlantic had Holly Binns of Pew sitting at every meeting
    pleading to shut down not only ARS but all bottom fishing outside 98'. She almost got her
    wish if it were not for a Federal lawsuit to be heard the day after the NMFS pulled back on the
    complete bottom closure by "re-crunching" their numbers. Even now they are playing a game
    with mortality numbers to give us a few days a season, but this apparently still ignores the
    greatly reduced Circle Hook mandate drop in discard mortality.

    So back to the real issue.......the South Atlantic ARS should NEVER have been closed to start
    with. It was rebuilding under year round 2-20" fish per person with a 2 month spawning
    closure. It was ONLY the application of MS wording and the 'Sliding of the Bar' definition wise
    that rebuilding became reclassified as "Overfishing" and "Overfished" mandating widespread
    closures. Nothing changed about the fishery health and rebuilding, only the political lobbying
    and green infusion in the legal wording that EDF boasted about changing.

    No rant here, just some South Atlantic facts about the last decade of ARS growth and then
    closures. Now we have a basically closed ARS fishery that was already growing, exploding
    with its complete protection, overrunning marine habitat and needlessly putting extra fishing
    pressure on other less populated species as well. This is a very similar problem as what is
    occurring in the GOM. A few have tried bringing up the privatization schemes on out East coast
    but fortunately its a pretty unified from against such schemes. Our call to make reliable science
    based data a mandate continues to be ignored and by the way opposed by groups like Pew and
    EDF. Interesting is Florida's FWC East Coast ARS Tagging Program and the data it has yielded.
    While the NMFS has access to that data, it seems like it to is ignored.

    Maybe Red Snapper are deserving of Game Fish status so as to better protect and manage their
    stocks while allowing recreational harvest to benefit the coastal communities with the tremendous
    economic impact from such family level activation.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 4,948 Captain
    Or we could just be fair about it and give everyone a 2 fish per trip limit, everyone including commercial fishermen, that is if we really want to be fair about it.

    Right ACME, It is exactly what is happening in the Gulf, our red snapper fishery was being held down only by the shrimping industry, once Katrina cleared that slate the red snapper rebounded with a vengeance. The commercial industry and NMFS caused these problems and they are rewarded with a free allocation and a year round season. Now the shrimpers are coming back so we will probably get set back again, somehow getting blamed for all this while we can't even get a chance to go fishing. The NMFS claims they helped restore the red snapper when in fact they had nothing whatsoever to do with it, Katrina did it, the red snapper have always been there hiding behind the oil rigs where the NMFS doesn’t go to count fish.

    It all goes back to some magical historical dreamed up red snapper population that existed before the recreational fishermen ever even went fishing off shore. If anyone should be stopped from fishing for these fish it should be the commercial fisherman.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
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