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Navionics sonar scans...before and after

Thought some of you 10K Islands guys might like to see/have some thoughts about these sonar scans I did with a Humminbird 998 a few week ago. You'll see the "before" scans (left) have some decent detail. but look at the contours on the "after" shots. Caught some trout while we were doing the scans, then went inside for some snook. Great day!


  • charlemagnecharlemagne Posts: 191 Officer
    so do you work for navionics?? I use the app all the time in the 10k, if you do work for them.. do you guys have some kind of trial with this to see if I would like it???


  • FishinMcNutFishinMcNut Posts: 536 Officer
    I would stay away from Navionics Platinum+ for the 10K. I recently upgraded my electronics and went with their 632 P+ card to start enjoying a Google Earth type experience. Used my boat for the first time Saturday and quickly learned satellite imagery for the 10K is horrible. The charts are great until you get south of Sand Fly Pass. Their satellite images are dark and lack any clarity. They must have been taken at dusk or dawn. I ended up switching back to the built in Simrad "Insights" charts. At least I could see them.

    I spoke to a couple of other P+ owners after Saturday and they informed me the charts were great until Navionics updated them about a year ago. Both said they have complained to Navionics and it falls on deaf ears.

    Major disappointment!
  • floridascubafloridascuba Posts: 94 Deckhand
    Exactly what I wanted to hear. I was debating if I wanted to get the platinum plus for the HDS. But couldn't find a definitive answer for the back country.
  • blewitupsirblewitupsir Posts: 774 Officer
    I'm in the Stone Age, I have to print the satellite images of the new areas I wanna explore and take them with me. I do have navionics on my phone and it's handy as a backup plotter should I loose my machine for any reason. I have really found little use for expensive chips in our inshore fishery that you cannot get by buying a Florida sportsman paper chart.

    Fish the Everglades and 10,000 islands with Also offering multiple day all inclusive fishing/camping trips
    http://hopefishing.comFishing the Florida Everglades National Park with Hope Fishing Adventures.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,906 Captain
    I have the Weather Channel app on my Iphone and foolishly downloaded the "upgrade" that they just came out with... BIG MISTAKE. Their new chart background can't even show the difference between Oyster and Whitewater bays.... Now I'm looking for a completely different weather app (and will consider any advice....). I sent a message to the folks at WC and of course I might as well have dropped down a black hole....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,906 Captain
    I have the Weather Channel app on my Iphone and foolishly downloaded the "upgrade" that they just came out with... BIG MISTAKE. Their new chart background can't even show the difference between Oyster and Whitewater bays.... The old version actually showed quite a bit of detail and clearly showed rain patterns across the wilderness. Now they have a nice road map of the urban areas and little or nothing for folks that run where I do... Now I'm looking for a completely different weather app (and will consider any advice....). I sent a message to the folks at WC and of course I might as well have dropped down a black hole....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    Fishinmcnut: Confused on your statement. Insight doesn't offer ANY satellite overlays at all. In fact, most of that data on that chart is of unknown age. Be happy to show some comparisons between the two if you like? I wouldn't want to be running 10K without newer data. In the Everglades we are the most recommended chart for the imagery on Platinum Plus chart. In fact, Hells Bay (speaking for them) pushes it to all of their clients to be able to navigate effectively and catch fish down there. Also did you update the chart? if not, Mike will be happy to walk you through it. When you update it to Freshest data and turn on the Fish Chip layer you get the new one foot contours. This is the only chart that has that. Again, happy to help you update it. Also are you running with the chart layer zoomed out far? If you zoom in closer the imagery clears up based on needing more clarity at tighter levels.

    Additonally no imagery has changed on P+ in the last year. Granted some areas are clearer than others based on the area you are looking at. Navionics does boast the most high res imagery of any charting company but granted not all are as hi res, the area you mention may be a lower res area, I'll have to look at. To be technical, the more hi res, the greater the memory space on a card. The greater the memory space the smaller a region has to be for a plotter to read it quickly and effectively. This means the chart area will be a smaller area if we add "less traveled spots" to hi res and still have the same price as higher res is more expensive to do. We try to keep everyone happy and go with the most traveled and requested areas. The best suggestion is report it online to our website on anyone that has a request. When there is the demand, that area can then be upgraded as we want to help in areas that area needed.

    lemay: have you checked out the Navionics app? or the Platinum Plus for whitewater bay is VERY good on imagery. Check out the IGFA website on a video there showing it. Granted you need a signal for the sat overlay to work (not often found in that area) but the charting still works as does GPS.
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 606 Officer
    The Humminbird is great for bottom contours-unbelieveable.
    LeMay ,check out weather bug for app. on phone. The radar should be good in your area if you are getting reception.
    I too bought the 632 P+ hoping for outstanding satellite overlay based on what I had seen on other machines several years ago and was greatly disappointed in the version I bought in 2012.
    I do fish areas other than the Glades where the the chip is worth the money.
  • floridascubafloridascuba Posts: 94 Deckhand
    Can you post comparison pics for the everglades? And which chart. the 632 or 906.
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    Sure. I just took a few quickly. If you want to see other areas, just go to the Navionics home page and check the web app. SonarCharts can be seen there too. No sat overlay but mapping detail. I just picked these spots generally at random but since I ran Flamingo to Tarpon Bay earlier this year perfectly, figured I'd use that.

    The above are insight charts
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    These are Navionics off HDS
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    The 632 and 906 are the same data either way. 906 is just a larger area and has the Bahamas. Details will be the same but of course update the chart when you get it for the most Freshest Data and the SonarCharts. That's the fishing contours that's updated by submitting logs.
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    these are images of the SonarCharts. This IS off my ipad as I can do a higher zoom with contours on that.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,906 Captain
    Additional info re map udates for Everglades interior. Even the NOAA charts for the interior are badly out of date. Lots of places where islands are shown that no longer exist at all -and haven't in some years now... Also places where islands are now less than 1/4 of the size shown on every chart I've looked at.... and that goes for the extreme SE side of Whitewater all the way out to the coast... Every time I see an ad for "latest updated charts" there ought to be a disclaimer that no updates have been done in years... by the folks that actually are responsible for the data. That's why any overhead or satellite pics of the interior are valuable if you spend a lot of time running the backcountry of the Park (and that's precisely what that new update from WC got rid of....). They may not show any aids to navigation or campsites, etc. - but they actually reflected what's there if they're current enough.

    Sharky, let me know if you figure out how to upload a Navionics app on an iphone.... if that really is possible then I might be interested. For those not aware, the only cell on the Flamingo side of things that actually works must have AT&T's service since no other service works at all (and with AT&T you're only going to have line of sight connection with that single tower at Flamingo - so that means about 2/3 of the way across, after that you're just out of luck on my side of things).

    All of the above is why I could kick myself for blindly accepting an "update" from the nice folks at Weather Channel - I should have known better....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    Not sure why seeing the two messages on Platinum in 2012. The shots attached are the most recent. Very clear an hi res. Wondering if you bought the "platinum" and not Platinum "plus" chart? The old platinum had a lot of low res on it. All the new stuff is hi res. send me a lat long of the area and we will take a look at.

    Very easy to do. Go to the App store. search Navionics. Get the Boating App as the download is free. Go into the app and buy the USA region. It'll cost you $10. You can then download anywhere you want in the USA as much as you want. This will give you the navigation data. If you want the fishing contours get the Nav+ in there as well. like another $5. This gives you the one foot SonarCharts. The good news... you do NOT need a signal for it to work. Just download the area you want first. The iphone has a GPS in it for when there is no cell service. That will work directly onto our pre-downloaded chart. Works like a charm. You wont be able to do sat imagery on the iphone as that does require an signal.

    Absolutely right on the constantly changing islands and sandbars. NOAA isn't even doing any surveys anymore. All Navionics is a mix of 100's of sources. Here is the good news, if you own a Humminbird, Garmin or Raymarine you can actually record your sonar logs onto a blank card, upload it to Navionics and update the charts. This is then shared among all Navionics users when you do a Freshest data update. This appears on the SonarChart layer. With no major noaa source doing surveys anymore, this has been the answer to getting new data. You don't have to do a "grid pattern" just go boating and fishing. since its a "community sourced" data, other boats pick up where you haven't and combines. Doesn't take fishing spots or anything just improves contours and the land masses as you mention Bob. I'll give you an easy example below. This is from Hurricane Sandy. Bunch of boats recorded sonar and the sonarcharts layer now has the new info.

    Note the new inlet, land formation, and channels as a result of Sandy.

    let Mike or I know if you have other questions or need instructions (or anyone) for these features. There is also a Navionics Room on manufactures if you have questions you can go to there as well to post. They usually get seen quicker.
  • floridascubafloridascuba Posts: 94 Deckhand
    Is the $15 app(s) for the ipad the same detail as the 632? Maybe worth getting when I want to plan new area's to fish.
  • FishinMcNutFishinMcNut Posts: 536 Officer
    Sharky, I cleary stated I bought the 632 P+. Not sure why you would question if I bought Platinum Plus? I also stated P+ charting south of Sandfly Pass was the problem. North of Sandfly it is clear and very high definition. South is is dark and blurry. Thus, why I commented it appears the satellite imagary was captured at low light. Additionally, my Simrad has the option of switching back to Insight as chart display. I switched over due to not being able to see features on P+.

    Are you associated with Navionics? Can you help vs dispute my observations as a new paid full price customer?
    Yes, I did update online. No, I cannot assure accuracy in the two frinds I spoke to regarding changes in the past year. I do know one bought his boat and electronics including P+ in the past year and did update hoping it would resolve the issue of poor quality.

    Please help instead of defending, as you have a serious problem in our area.
  • mikenavmikenav Posts: 861 Officer
    floridascuba...the 632 will have more detail as far as 3D ports, landmarks and things like that, but the iPad app (which is $50, $15 for the iphone because the ipad has info in HD) will have the same bottom contours and depth info and detail. The ipad/iphone will allow you to download any area in the United States, while the 632 is a more specific area. Like sharky mentioned, you don't have to have cell service in order for the ipad or iphone apps to work. The built-in GPS will always show where you are and the detail on the charts will be there, assuming you have downloaded that area before you lost service or signal.
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand

    Can you give me a lat/long of the area in question?
    I'll be happy to take a look. Most likely it is as mentioned in explanation. A block that is not hi res. I'm not exactly sure where you are looking at I looked around 10k at the most important areas but all was hi res so need a little guidance as to an exact area.

    If it is low res then we need a Cartography report filled out which then Stays on file and we can alert once/if a change or correction is made. As mentioned it's not as simple sometimes as just a "fix". There's a lot that goes into it in memory size, availability, etc. again happy to take a look and give you as best a reply as I can or hopefully a fix

    PS No desire of disputing your experience, happy to try and get you an answer but I needed to verify what you had and what was done before I can go any further. Sometimes the answers are simple ones to start with. Plus, Anyone is going to get a little defensive if someone says don't buy their product when normally we get great compliments on that area. Post the lat long please and I'll gladly take a look
  • FishinMcNutFishinMcNut Posts: 536 Officer
    Here is a screen shot of the issue as sent to me by the friend who bought new in the past year and has updated. You can clearly see the issue as we exit Sandfly and turn south. Quality was worse than poor all the way to the Harney Saturday.

    I did not think to save a screen shot of mine but will be happy to next time.
  • Big Daddy HugeBig Daddy Huge Posts: 9 Greenhorn
    The Platinum Plus chip is COMPLETE GARBAGE for the area I fish, from Indian Key to Shark River.
    I had the Platinum plus chip in an old unit and it was incredible. I could see every bar, run out, channel, etc.
    And then about a year and a half ago I got a new unit and it needed a different sized chip so I had to get the new Platinum Plus. What a HUGE STEP BACK they took with their picture set. It's so bad, you can't tell water from land. I contacted Navionics and opened a ticket. I called and emailed many times, was told they were working on it. Over a year later, no follow up, no resolution, no contact from Navionics and sadly no fix. I have my old chip and begged them to just move the data from the old chip to the new, I guess that was too simple of a solution, they refused my request. I don't even turn my Raymarine on anymore, it's totally useless. I find Navionics to have horrible customer service.
    If this gets aanyone's attention and you want to look into it. The ticket number is:
    Navionics DR case # 6970 [ref:_00DU0YMtF._500U08Jd8K:ref ]
    Feel free to call my cell 954-444-6077
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    Thanks for the screenshot. Appreciated. I don't need yours, this is fine. What I really need is a lat long but I found Harney river. See screenshots below. I still don't see the issue. This is this years card. Sat imagery is very clear and can run on the creeks as show. Not blurry at all. This is on an HDS and Simrad should be clearer. is this what you are seeing? Also be aware, you can turn sat overlay to just show on land only as you can see. Let me know if you see something different and lat long where.

    Regarding the other comment made regarding shark river, I have also pasted that below. Looks pretty darn good as far as clarity. I would challenge any other marine electronics company to show better. That is the best available and I can certainly run on it (and have). Now as far as every sandbar or shoal: I will try and look back a couple years ago and see if I can find anything from back then to look at. HOWEVER, these are sat images and aren't LIVE images. They are recorded and put onto charts. Not sure I would want two year old sandbars tho. Having run back there, usually isn't too much non-brown water but I'll see if I can find an older chart for the area. As Bob commented earlier, those islands and shoals change all the time. LA marsh changes every day. Everglades may not be every day but sands shift, bars move, holes fill in. Anytime you boat you need to be looking at the water and if concerned on depths, turn off the sat imagery on water or at least shade it down. This is how it is used in the Keys. Full image overlay and shade down. A marine chart is meant to show safe passageway, if you cover it up where there are spot soundings you take away the depths which is what you need to navigate.

    Sat imagery in creeks and such are not considered "navigable" by marine standards. no surveys are done there. However we keep sat imagery there for flats boats to use as fishermen do use these areas which is important to you and us for creeks. If you want some depths in there for bars and such, I'd suggest recording and submitting sonar logs for SonarCharts. This will give new data each time. Raymarine R10 software will allow you to do this which releases this month and Humminbird and Garmin are already active. This is a better solution vs just a water color. get actual depths.

    Big daddy... I hope your other "7" comments were as polite and constructive.

    such hate in the room. Mike and I are trying to offer help, suggestions, answers and tips. If I wanted to get yelled at in such a manner I'd still be married! :)
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    let me know Fish if you have differently and where. I think we are getting closer to your issue.
  • FishinMcNutFishinMcNut Posts: 536 Officer
    Sharky, it will be a couple of weeks before I get down to my boat again to take screen shots. I clicked on the Navionics webapp ( ) to see the same area and the difference is night and day, like it is a completely different product! The Raymarine screenshot I shared is exactly how the area looks on my Simrad when set to max detail. The Webapp shows multiple shades of water color indicating contrast between deep water and shallow flats. Mine shows water as all dark brown and no shading. Land mass is blurry and difficult to distinguish from water zoomed in per normal when running on plane. I would love to hear it is just a setting that I've overlooked.

    I am getting the feeling Navionics reduced resolution for coastal Everglades for sake of card space, etc.
  • sharky12sharky12 Posts: 199 Deckhand
    Hi Fishin,
    Something definitely sounds goofy. When you get to the boat and play around, bring the chart home with you as well in case we need to do anything with it.

    Definitely no reduction of resolution. As you saw, its still very clean. You should easily be able to see land from water as you see in those pics. the brown color of water is possible. In the updating of sat imagery obviously we want to use the most recent we can get and it is possible the water color changed based on tiem of imagery. Again, I would caution using the full overlay as a way to avoid depths. Best bet is always the sontours and spot soundings but as mentioned sometimes creeks don't have them (especilally backwaters) and the only way to run them is with the imagery.

    Message me as a PM when you get to the boat. I may not see the thread again. I can assure you, we definitely didn't dumb down imagery for space. In fact, we increasing the space size on cards all the time to add more, not less. SonarCharts takes up a ton of memory with data.

    Hoping its just a setting for you.
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 606 Officer
    sharky12 wrote: »
    If I wanted to get yelled at in such a manner I'd still be married! :)

    So, Sharky is a Free holder. Congrats

    The P+ cartography is great.The problem is the Sat. overlay.
    In the past the overlay was used w/ the chart to provide an updated version as to what is actually there.
    Coast Guard and /or NOAA do not survey this area often.Thus the need for current information.
    It is also a shallow water environment--like the Keys, and thus caution must be exercised or you'll lose a prop or lower unit.

    For some reason the overlay is very dark w/o much contrast.

    As a side note; The Coast Guard intends to decommission the aids to navigation in White Water bay and rivers running to the Gulf. Other aids to navigation will be turned over to ENP.
    The Coast Guard wants to save money on maintenance.Unfortunately ENP struggles maintaining the chikkis as well as the "stick trail."
    They will have difficulty shouldering this burden.

    The P+ chips will become very valuable.

    After seeing the Navionics web app. I'll be buying for my phone
  • eli_lillyeli_lilly Posts: 135 Deckhand
    The Navionics app was also released recently for Android phones and tablets.

  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 4,906 Captain
    I always wondered just how the Park got the Guard to maintain the markers in the Park's area... Yes, the Park struggles for money but a system where the Coast Guard was only able to come once a year to sort out nav markers was never particularly satisfactory from my point of view.... Since I have a son in the Guard I'm very aware that their funding has been cut along with every other branch of the armed forces so Im not at all surprised they're cutting back on the services they provide where there's an existing government entity that should be responsible for them..

    Guys like me probably can do without the markers but most will have serious difficulty if the Park doesn't maintain them properly....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • MangroovinMangroovin Posts: 149 Deckhand
    Bob, I like to see the park stay difficult to get around in. Eventually, might cut back on some of boat traffic. :)
  • FishinMcNutFishinMcNut Posts: 536 Officer
    Great point Joe!
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