Home Politics

4 out of 5 Ocare sign ups require subsidies

2

Replies

  • tunamantunaman Posts: 3,767 Captain
    mustang190 wrote: »
    And just where will this "subsidy" money come from?

    obviously from the working mans pocket...
  • tunamantunaman Posts: 3,767 Captain
    NOLE66 wrote: »
    Riiiiiiiiiigghht, lol. So only parasites so far, no payers. Good luck with that. Face it, Obamacare is a total failure. Can't polish that big steamy ****.
    No differant than the Liberal way in general. Another description, "re-distribution of the wealth" or "Give up some of the pie". Take from the working man, give it tothe people that have no intention of working whatsoever, or illegal immigrants that have never put a penny in the system. All well and good....until the jar is empty. Put a dollar in, take out two, Liberalism.
  • navigator2navigator2 Posts: 22,506 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    A tax credit may or may not be a subsidy. Tax credits such as EIC and the ACA tax credit are subsidies when they allow a negative tax rate. Meaning you can get more back than you paid in. As long as they stop at zero, they are fine.

    That is going to go over so many dems heads you might have well have saved your breath. Not one liberal has a clue what a subsidy is. :grin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,808 AG
    tunaman wrote: »
    Take from the working man, give it tothe people that have no intention of working whatsoever.
    Sounds just like every form of foreign spending.
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 7,048 Admiral
    dstockwell wrote: »
    Sounds just like every form of foreign spending.

    Does that in some way diminish his point or are you simply reinforcing how our government wastes our money?
    Deo Vindice
  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,808 AG
    Simply stating until changes are made across the board, arguing one side is not acceptable. Also subsidies in this country = far better that other countries.
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 7,048 Admiral
    dstockwell wrote: »
    Simply stating until changes are made across the board, arguing one side is not acceptable. Also subsidies in this country = far better that other countries.

    I know your intention but bringing up other subsidies breaks the concentration of some here. They have a hard enough time concentrating on one issue much lessvtwo.
    Deo Vindice
  • tunamantunaman Posts: 3,767 Captain
    dstockwell wrote: »
    Sounds just like every form of foreign spending.
    I forgot this aspect of liberalism, two wrongs make a right!
  • gregglgreggl Posts: 21,594 Officer
    navigator2 wrote: »
    That is going to go over so many dems heads you might have well have saved your breath. Not one liberal has a clue what a subsidy is. :grin

    Yeah - subsidies are the result of a successful rent seek and causes in market distortions.

    TANSTAAFL

    Oh, just for grins:

    TIGTA: The IRS Pays $12 Billion/Year in Phony EITC Claims -- A 25% Error Rate

    http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2011/02/tigta-the-irs.html
  • LonghaulLonghaul Posts: 1,745 Officer
    Squid Row wrote: »
    Another huge government entitlement program.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101530699

    I proudly can say I have Never taken any handouts from the Govt. Why? I work for a living.
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    Not necessarily. If they wish to pay more for less deductible then there are options, but the prices will be similar on the exchange or off the exchange for similar converage. But since most people making more than 400% of poverty are working in jobs that provide insurance or already have plans they like that are in compliance, why would they need to shop on there. Unless you qualify for a subsidy, it is easier to deal direct with the insurance company. I get enough advertising from them, so I know they aren't hard to find.

    The biggest user of the site will be those in the lower income bracket who did not have insurance before or have a substandard plan. They will go there for the savings offered. The results are not surprising and easily predicted.

    Actually I would bet a lot of those in the 400% (96k) and above are small business owners and self employed....who must shop the individual markets.

    For me why limit my self to the crap they offer (I looked) when I can shop the market place for a plan that works for me and allows me real choice...like Doctors and the like...If I am going to be fleeced...it is going to be by my choice...not by the limited offers of government sponsored crap (even the plans offered between the exchange plans and private offerings are not true apples to apples comparisons).
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    The most you pay during a policy period (usually one year) before your health insurance or plan starts to pay 100% for covered essential health benefits. This limit must include deductibles, coinsurance, copayments, or similar charges and any other expenditure required of an individual which is a qualified medical expense for the essential health benefits. This limit does not have to count premiums, balance billing amounts for non-network providers and other out-of-network cost-sharing, or spending for non-essential health benefits.

    The maximum out-of-pocket cost limit for any individual Marketplace plan for 2014 can be no more than $6,350 for an individual plan and $12,700 for a family plan.

    https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/out-of-pocket-maximum-limit/


    Observations on Deductibles
    The entry-level bronze plan had a deductible 42% higher ($5,081) than the $3,589 deductible average for the 2013 pre-reform market.5 In contrast, the top-tier platinum plan had an average deductible ($347) that was 90% less than the deductible average for the 2013 pre-reform market.
    http://www.healthpocket.com/healthcare-research/infostat/2014-obamacare-deductible-out-of-pocket-costs


    Who has 5 grand to cough up before the 70/30 co-pay starts up?
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,309 Admiral
    "They're seeing sticker shock" in transitioning to the more-comprehensive coverage, and "once they start to use the policy, they will see a second sticker shock" of high deductibles, said Jamie Court, president of public-interest group Consumer Watchdog in California.

    For example, the patient's typical share of the cost of having a baby through normal delivery—$6,150, according to one insurer's estimate—would be almost entirely an out-of-pocket expense for a person holding a bronze policy with the average $5,081 deductible.

    "The anger is going to grow, because people are really stretched to buy these policies, then they're going to have to reach into their pocket for another five grand before it does anything for them," Mr. Court said.


    For a 40-year-old adult, the average monthly premium for a bronze plan is $295.51 a month, or $3,546 a year, according to HealthPocket. A typical silver plan costs $319.42 a month, or $3,833 a year, with a $2,907 deductible.

    The average insured American spent $1,241 on out-of-pocket health-care expenses in 2012, according to Truven Health Analytics Inc., which analyzed medical claims from employers.

    Moody's Investors Service in October cited several exchange-related risks that it said would pressure nonprofit hospitals' revenue in 2014, including growth in unpaid bills associated with the higher deductibles.

    The American Hospital Association, which represents for-profit and nonprofit hospitals and other health-care providers, concurred that the higher deductibles "will likely lead to an increase in hospital bad debt," said Ashley Thompson, its deputy director for policy.



    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303330204579246211560398876
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • Squid RowSquid Row Posts: 4,133 Officer
    'The debate over repealing this law is over': Obama boasts 7.1 MILLION have signed up to Obamacare - but study shows just 858,000 newly insured Americans have paid up!

    A triumphant President Barack Obama declared Tuesday his signature medical insurance overhaul a success, saying it has made America's health care system 'a lot better' in a Rose Garden press conference.

    But buried in the 7.1 million enrollments he announced in a heavily staged appearance is a more unsettling reality.


    Numbers from a RAND Corporation study that has been kept under wraps suggest that barely 858,000 previously uninsured Americans – nowhere near 7.1 million – have paid for new policies and joined the ranks of the insured by Monday night.
    Squid Row
    Why don't we use geothermal energy?

    In most places, just a mile beneath the crust, the earth is several million degrees.

    Team Sabatage
    Most places?

    Try 18 to 22 miles down before we get to the heat you mentioned, in most places.
    In those places it is only a mile down it is a good alternative.

    I already know more than you ever will on all subjects.
    :rotflmao
    Lucky7Team2
    300 billion people on a planet eating, farting, pooing, making stuff, etc
    :rotflmao
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Obamanation care canceled (resulted in )the policies of 5 million people forcing them to sign up for the ACA then the SOB brags about the 7 million sign ups of which it is estimated that less than 23% are the target demographic necessary to pay for the crap pie.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    Our right-wing friends have hung their hat 100% on the ACA's challenges resonating with Americans come election time, they literally have nothing else unless you count Benghazi.

    Please proceed.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 30,680 AG
    Actually I would bet a lot of those in the 400% (96k) and above are small business owners and self employed....who must shop the individual markets.

    For me why limit my self to the crap they offer (I looked) when I can shop the market place for a plan that works for me and allows me real choice...like Doctors and the like...If I am going to be fleeced...it is going to be by my choice...not by the limited offers of government sponsored crap (even the plans offered between the exchange plans and private offerings are not true apples to apples comparisons).

    I am one of those small business owners, but I don't have a wife and two kids, so I hit 400% a lot quicker. I compared my current plan with those on the exchanges for my area. The same doctors that I used were on both. The rates were within $50. The only differences were the deductible on the exchange was $1300 and mine is $1000. I think my max out of pocket is slightly less at $5000. There are probably better plans if you wish to fork over the money, but it really make no logical sense unless your doctor is not on the plan or you have health issues that you need a lot of medical care. I balanced the out of pocket expenditures to the premium to try and get the most bang for my buck myself.

    I stayed with my current plan for this year and will review options for next year.

    I don't doubt some are small business owners, but the sheer numbers of those with employer insurance in that bracket overwhelms the small business owner. In 2010 70% of the work force was covered by group health insurance. Only 7% were self insured.

    https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p70-134.pdf

    Mini Mart Magnate

    This forum is carbon based lifeform friendly. 

  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    cadman wrote: »
    I am one of those small business owners, but I don't have a wife and two kids, so I hit 400% a lot quicker. I compared my current plan with those on the exchanges for my area. The same doctors that I used were on both. The rates were within $50. The only differences were the deductible on the exchange was $1300 and mine is $1000. I think my max out of pocket is slightly less at $5000. There are probably better plans if you wish to fork over the money, but it really make no logical sense unless your doctor is not on the plan or you have health issues that you need a lot of medical care. I balanced the out of pocket expenditures to the premium to try and get the most bang for my buck myself.

    I stayed with my current plan for this year and will review options for next year.

    I don't doubt some are small business owners, but the sheer numbers of those with employer insurance in that bracket overwhelms the small business owner. In 2010 70% of the work force was covered by group health insurance. Only 7% were self insured.

    https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p70-134.pdf

    That too is set to change...once the employer mandates kick in.......
    It is estimated that 30% of those current insured under employer plans may lose those plans or they may be drastically altered...
    In addition many more will be expected to cough up more out of pocket as employers seek to maintain a level of offering insurance, but can not bear the added expenses...

    The self insured market was small, but they also bore the brunt of the first round of undesirable effects......
    When to next round hits (after the mid terms of course) we will be hearing it all over again, then when all the bad is exposed....of course the man responsible for it...will no longer be in the "buck stops here seat".
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 30,680 AG
    Squid Row wrote: »
    'The debate over repealing this law is over': Obama boasts 7.1 MILLION have signed up to Obamacare - but study shows just 858,000 newly insured Americans have paid up!

    A triumphant President Barack Obama declared Tuesday his signature medical insurance overhaul a success, saying it has made America's health care system 'a lot better' in a Rose Garden press conference.

    But buried in the 7.1 million enrollments he announced in a heavily staged appearance is a more unsettling reality.


    Numbers from a RAND Corporation study that has been kept under wraps suggest that barely 858,000 previously uninsured Americans – nowhere near 7.1 million – have paid for new policies and joined the ranks of the insured by Monday night.

    Could you please link to that study. I went to Rand's website and found none that state what you claim.

    In this one they say as of December 2.1 million had enrolled in a private plan.
    http://www.rand.org/blog/2014/02/first-steps-on-a-long-road-three-key-findings-from.html

    I know you got the number from the blaze
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/01/the-secretive-obamacare-study-that-may-reveal-how-many-previously-uninsured-americans-have-actually-paid-for-a-plan/

    Which links a L.A. Times article as the source
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obamacare-uninsured-national-20140331,0,6550360,full.story#axzz2xYVbfomi

    But the article does not say that. It appears the Blaze created the number to publish a false story, as is their custom.

    But if you can find the study, I would be happy to read it.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    This forum is carbon based lifeform friendly. 

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 30,680 AG
    That too is set to change...once the employer mandates kick in.......
    It is estimated that 30% of those current insured under employer plans may lose those plans or they may be drastically altered...
    In addition many more will be expected to cough up more out of pocket as employers seek to maintain a level of offering insurance, but can not bear the added expenses...

    The self insured market was small, but they also bore the brunt of the first round of undesirable effects......
    When to next round hits (after the mid terms of course) we will be hearing it all over again, then when all the bad is exposed....of course the man responsible for it...will no longer be in the "buck stops here seat".

    The percentage of those covered under group health plans has been declining since 2000 or so. It already started.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    This forum is carbon based lifeform friendly. 

  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Okay I will ask,,, Since I went on the site today.
    Why do you have to give your name, Social Security #, address, and other info that has nothing to do with the state of your health before you can select a plan and know the price?
    I also understand that all the info you give is not deleted if you either chose not to enroll or just log off.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 30,680 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Okay I will ask,,, Since I went on the site today.
    Why do you have to give your name, Social Security #, address, and other info that has nothing to do with the state of your health before you can select a plan and know the price?
    I also understand that all the info you give is not deleted if you either chose not to enroll or just log off.

    I think it is to verify your income for the subsidy and an identity check. When you get to a certain point it asks questions that the answers to would be on a credit report to verify your I.D..

    The site was not designed to allow you window shop. It was designed to sell you an insurance plan. I do not like the design myself.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    This forum is carbon based lifeform friendly. 

  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    I think it is to verify your income for the subsidy and an identity check. When you get to a certain point it asks questions that the answers to would be on a credit report to verify your I.D..

    The site was not designed to allow you window shop. It was designed to sell you an insurance plan. I do not like the design myself.

    Now you know why millions are avoiding the site and not signing up. As it has been pointed out it is a hackers wet dream.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 30,680 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Now you know why millions are avoiding the site and not signing up. As it has been pointed out it is a hackers wet dream.

    Not sure millions are avoiding the site for that reason. There are a multitude of websites with vast more data to hack. As I said before, the only reason to use the site is if you qualify for a subsidy. Most who did not qualify for a subsidy bought directly.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    This forum is carbon based lifeform friendly. 

  • WraithWraith Posts: 1,653 Captain
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Okay I will ask,,, Since I went on the site today.
    Why do you have to give your name, Social Security #, address, and other info that has nothing to do with the state of your health before you can select a plan and know the price?
    I also understand that all the info you give is not deleted if you either chose not to enroll or just log off.

    Um, you just 'Enrolled' in Obamacare................ Even if you did not........................:wink
    SLOP, (Standard Liberal Operating Procedure).
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Wraith wrote: »
    Um, you just 'Enrolled' in Obamacare................ Even if you did not........................:wink

    Actually I gave a false name and info just to see where it would go Never accepted or enrolled.
    I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night!
  • stsimonsstsimons Posts: 7,292 Admiral
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Actually I gave a false name and info just to see where it would go

    I wonder how many "fake people" are being counted. I bet "John Doe" has a million policies.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 30,680 AG
    stsimons wrote: »
    I wonder how many "fake people" are being counted. I bet "John Doe" has a million policies.

    Not possible, you have to go through an I.D. check to verify identity before buying a policy. They use a credit report and ask you verification questions.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    This forum is carbon based lifeform friendly. 

  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 7,048 Admiral
    cadman wrote: »
    Not possible, you have to go through an I.D. check to verify identity before buying a policy. They use a credit report and ask you verification questions.

    And that raises an extremely important question that this adminstration refuses to answer but will have to sooner or later. How many who have enrolled have actually made a payment? I suspect the adminstration is going to stonewall this question until after the midterm elections in an attempt to save as many democratic seats as possible. Another question which is begging is, how many of those enrolled, and paying, are the young people so vial to the success of the program?
    Deo Vindice
Sign In or Register to comment.