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  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,390 Officer
    Looks like it's going to be a great product. Very user friendly and accurate.
    Good job!
    Can't wait to own a copy!
  • gumgatorgumgator Posts: 124 Officer
    Great job. Not knowing where to run has been my only hesitance taking my boat to the keys. If this will work on my HDS12, count me in. Also, living in SW Florida, this would be invaluable. Great job again, and I'm in.
    a733be5f-c7db-41a8-912c-98a88c9a32ca.jpg
  • 91tiger91tiger Posts: 555 Officer
  • mtd885mtd885 Posts: 1,159 Officer
    What happened to my beta test? Sheesh!
  • Renagade69Renagade69 Posts: 1,234 Officer
    I got to beta test a post production one over the weekend and its the real deal.
    Hells Bay Estero Bay Boat and Hells Bay Marquesas
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,390 Officer
    I saw the beta test version also. This will be a great addition to anyone who fishes the areas hands down!
    :thumbsup
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 949 Officer
    Renagade69 wrote: »
    I got to beta test a post production one over the weekend and its the real deal.

    That was the just the very first test chip ever produced. It had the unadjusted photos and a map projected with too much detail at high levels so it had a performance memory issue. The second draft chip with the fixes that was supposed to be ready last week ran into a computer crash during image projection and put it back 10 days. I'll have it shortly and you can test that Michael. I did not even remember I had the first draft chip with me until I found it unexpectedly and thought on a whim I would see how it worked on Frank's machine on Friday when we were discussing the big trip on Saturday (I logged 150.5 miles total btw that day). I guess that first draft worked well for Frank so the second draft should be that much better.
  • trponhuntertrponhunter Posts: 249 Deckhand
    Any word on the pricing yet, Glenn?
    *Previous - 2000 Egret 189 carbon w/ vmax 150 - twin rotating prop
    *Previous - 2008 Egret 189 carbon w/ ETEC 150
    *Previous 2010 Beavertail Vengence w/ETEC 90
    *Current - 2015 Beavertail BTV w/ Suzuki 90
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 949 Officer
    Any word on the pricing yet, Glenn?

    Its not finalized yet but I anticipate the initial release should be about $500 for entire keys and about $300 for the upper or the lower.
    We don't know yet if this will sell a 100 chips, 1,000, 5,000 or more. The pricing may change up or down once I have a better gauge on the traction the product gains in the market after a few months.


    The center of the 7 mile bridge is the cut off point between upper and lower. I may do a trade up for $200 if people want to send back the chip and trade in the upper or lower for the full Keys version. S. FL Imagery will be from Miami to Naples southwest to Tortugas with the tracks running from Jewfish Creek to Flamingo to Marquesas on the ocean side and the bay side. The images also include all the inland areas (not just coastal areas) so rivers, lakes and roads, etc. The entire Everglades is on there. The machine says the total lineal mileage of all of the tracks is about 3,000 miles but some of that is back tracking on the same line so I estimate about maybe 2500 miles total is very close. Once the keys are launched, the next track/map logging segments will begin which are Biscayne Bay/Miami and 10,000 islands and then up the coasts from there until all of FL coastal areas are tracked in detail.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,390 Officer
    Any updates on the release of the software? :shrug
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 949 Officer
    FlatsBoy wrote: »
    Any updates on the release of the software? :shrug

    I unexpectedly acquired some superior imagery last month for a few areas and couldn't let it go and produce without incorporating it so I took an extra few weeks. It looks like I will have the final image computer projection complete before next weekend and then it will take another 5 days or so for the computer to run all of the coding required for the machines to read the data. So, it looks like chips may be produced in 10 - 15 days (barring an unexpected computer crash). Yes, it takes the computer about 2 weeks running 24/7 to do it all once the final images to be used are determined and set. The machine is pretty fast and totally dedicated and that is just for S. Florida. It has about 50 gigs of RAM. The final retail packaging, FMT labels, website, etc. will take another month or so after that but if anyone just wants a chip that works when the programming is done without a retail package and custom labeling I can send them out as it only takes a few minutes to program a chip once the final projection is complete. I think compared to the crappy alternative imagery that doesn't even have tracks, it has been worth the wait.

    When the programming is complete, I'll update the post and anyone who wants to order immediately can email me and I can turn them around.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,390 Officer
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 606 Officer
    but if anyone just wants a chip that works when the programming is done without a retail package and custom labeling I can send them out as it only takes a few minutes to program a chip once the final projection is complete. I think compared to the crappy alternative imagery that doesn't even have tracks, it has been worth the wait.

    When the programming is complete, I'll update the post and anyone who wants to order immediately can email me and I can turn them around.

    Thanks----I'll be an early buyer.
    Renagade69 wrote: »
    Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.
  • Renagade69Renagade69 Posts: 1,234 Officer
    You know I have been waiting 4 years now for this. A sample poster of some sort would be nice for me to show the Fly club. Everyone there goes to the keys. Join the CCA and donate a few to their raffles so all the heavy hitters can see what it is. An illustrated poster would be needed. Good luck
    Hells Bay Estero Bay Boat and Hells Bay Marquesas
  • trponhuntertrponhunter Posts: 249 Deckhand
    Glenn,

    I have a friend about to buy a new gps and I told him about your chip - he would want one without all the packaging - do you have a price yet? I assume you still would want the navionics chip as well?
    thanks
    *Previous - 2000 Egret 189 carbon w/ vmax 150 - twin rotating prop
    *Previous - 2008 Egret 189 carbon w/ ETEC 150
    *Previous 2010 Beavertail Vengence w/ETEC 90
    *Current - 2015 Beavertail BTV w/ Suzuki 90
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 949 Officer
    Glenn,

    I have a friend about to buy a new gps and I told him about your chip - he would want one without all the packaging - do you have a price yet? I assume you still would want the navionics chip as well?
    thanks

    The map with images from Miami/Naples to Tortugas and all the tracks for the keys running from Jew Fish Creek Bridge to Flamingo to Marquesas (about 2,700 miles) will run about $525. If you fish the reef, you will likely prefer the Navionics chip to get more detailed 1' contour data. If you are shallow and are more interested in navigating and seeing what is around and in the water and want Track guidance, the FMT is the way to go. I still have my 906P+ but only use it along the reef and offshore. I'll get the tighter contours eventually but its not available yet.

    Compared to the Navionics 906P+ chip, the FMT product will have far superior imagery and none of it is black and white. It is mostly provided at a very high 1 foot to 2 foot resolution with all of ENP at 6 inches. The current HDS GPS machines are unable to read it at full resolution but as the machines and screens advance in the future, they may then be able to read the imagery at full resolution. However, compared to the 906P+, there is still night and day difference in what you can see today zoomed in and zoomed out. The few that have actually seen the side by side comparison of the Navionics photos and the FMT photos of the same area on the HDS Units can attest that it is very substantive. Also, the missing holes on the 906P+ chip where there are no images at all (where you really want them such as 9 mile bank) are provided so the image coverage is better. Approx 95% of the total imagery provided is fairly recent (since approximately 2012) compared to the 906P+ chip which has very dated imagery mostly from 2006. Each FMT image (more than 2500 of them for S. Florida) was individually adjusted for brightness, color and contrast so the raw data looks about as good as can reasonably be expected and the photos actually look like decent photos where you can see what is there in the water for most spots (a few areas of turbidity excepted and obviously where the water is typically dirty such as 10,000 islands). Compare to 906P+ where much of the ENP imagery looks more like a map or painted pastel and you can see very little useful for navigating or fishing. Obviously, 906P+ provides zero tracks with the inferior imagery and so those that really want to know exactly where to navigate with precision from anywhere on the map and do it at a glance are out of luck with Navionics and will truly appreciate the FMT option.

    I have imagery for the entire State but this initial release of the chip is not going to include that additional imagery as it is still being processed and the Tracks are not set north of the Keys. It will take the rest of this year to get the imagery for the rest of Florida completely processed and for those that buy the initial release I will trade the chip out or add the additional imagery to it for an extra nominal fee. I was going to wait for that but so many have been clamoring for S. Florida data I figured it best to release S. Florida early. As the Tracks are finalized up both coasts, I will produce the chips with expanded tracks and likely sell regions for different costs.

    As for the Map itself which is separate from the Imagery and overlays the photos in the background (if you turn it on), it was produced mostly from Govt. NOAA data just as most of the other map products are but I took some time to move many of the channel Markers to their exact locations since so many of the NOAA indicators are off by quite a distance. I am sure I missed a few but I fixed a large number of them. I also added Markers on the map for all of the Entrance Markers in ENP provided by the Park Service and they are to the foot accurate and I marked a large of number of PVC Stakes as well all over the Keys that denote shortcuts, channels and danger areas. The map on this initial release of the chip covers the entire State. It has standard NOAA depth features and contours. The 906P chip with the FishnChip has superior 1' contours so those looking for this detail which is provided mostly along the reef line will prefer the Navionics map. As far as the Keys areas go, there is no substantive difference in the contours in most shallow areas such as ENP. But, if you are headed offshore and the extra contour data is preferred, you will want to use the 906P chip. The Navionics also has the Tide info as part of the chip and FMT doesn't have tides on the chip itself but the tides are already built into the GPS and can be accessed with the chip inserted. The Navionics advantage there is their dynamic icon for the tides so if you like that feature, you will want to use the 906P chip.

    By way of comparison of the chips themselves, Navionics used a 16 gb class 4 chip (at least that is what mine is) and their data appears to take up about 9 gb total for the entire area it covers. FMT will provide a 32 gb class 6 chip (class 10 chips provide no additional speed advantage in any of the units) and the data just for S. Florida takes up about 16 gb of space. Once the rest of the State imagery is added to it, it will take up most of the 32 gb chip space. The differences in space requirements are largely attributable to the higher resolution provided by FMT.

    With respect to the Tracks themselves, they are Red and may be turned on or off as a map layer. At the entrances to cuts and shallower areas where extra caution should be exercised to stay safe, different colored caution icons are noted depending on the spot and level of caution recommended.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,390 Officer
    Still waiting! :shrug
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 949 Officer
    FlatsBoy wrote: »
    Still waiting! :shrug

    Final images are running now and should be ready by Wed. or Thurs. I hope to making some chips by next weekend barring some unforeseen technical issue..
    I am done with the images .. finally. The map is also complete and just being fine tuned for the area covered by the tracks. I ran it a week ago and found a few more edits were needed to some photos and decided to rerun it. A week delay but should be worth it. I switched out some photos at 10,000 islands that had better visibility at the entrance to Harney which causes lots of problems for many with that big bar sticking out and for Lake Ingraham as well. However, I have added more tracks to include much of 10,000 islands, Biscayne Bay and Miami. All the tracks shown in this photo will be on there.

    20140907_045710_zpsacf84d75.jpg

    flmarinetrackslogo_zps5ba9438d.png
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,390 Officer
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    How did you generate all those tracks? Did you physically run them all, or were they generated via aerial overlays?


    I ask because I see quite a few tracks going thru Florida bay that I'd be leary to run a bay boat across. Do you have a close up of the broad river entrance that you can post?
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,390 Officer
    Maybe this will help answer your questions.
    It's been years in the making but finally, we appear geared to launch at the end of this summer after final testing for all of the Florida Keys. FMT will sell on line a gps navigation chip that will initially run in the Navico product line of chart plotters and hopefully expand to other lines except for the Garmin line which is not interested in participating. Those seeking the most recent high res aerial imagery for their chart plotters (that for some areas is less than a foot resolution) will find this very useful. Virtually all of the imagery is 1m or less resolution and all of Everglades National Park is less than a foot resolution which is higher than the current machines will even read. Those seeking the most efficient way to get from point A to Point B and particularly those unfamiliar with navigating in the Keys will find this an invaluable tool. The tracks are a very comprehensive guide and highly accurate and run the entire keys from Marquesas to Key Largo to Flamingo. This product shows virtually all of the short cuts and navigation details and the complicated runs that so often elicit questions. Just follow the track. The tracks are designed only for boats with outboards that draft about 13" or less at rest and can run in a foot or less of water. A future release will have color coded tracks that are safe for deeper running watercraft.
    FMT sourced imagery for the entire state of Florida including all of the inland areas. The product is copyrighted and the chips will be encrypted so the chip is required to be in the machine to work. It is not possible to copy any of the data from them. The product will eventually expand to cover the rest of the State of Florida. The initial release will include a map covering the entire State but with imagery only covering S. Florida from 10,000 Islands and from Miami south through the Florida Keys to Tortugas.
    The final set of photos we have acquired are much higher quality and far more recent than that provided on any other chip currently being sold. Most of the images are within the last couple of years with a few exceptions and it covers virtually all of the keys inland areas including Tortugas, the banks behind 7 mile bridge in the bay and all of Nine Mile Bank (which is completely missing for instance on Navionics 906P+). All of the final images are being individually processed for contrast, color, and the best clarity. This will be to my knowledge the best imagery currently available in the market for a chart plotter and the only product showing exactly where to navigate and at a glance too. However, it’s not an auto pilot and will require a high degree of attention when running as some of the runs are extremely precise and should only be attempted with good visibility.
    Here are a couple of the final processed images prior to the map overlay in the Everglades. One is of Snake Bight at Flamingo and the other of a portion of Buchanan Bank. Compare these images to your current chip of Snake Bight or of Buchanan and see for yourself. I can zoom way in on these with little deterioration. The machine is not able to read the resolution of these photos but future upgrades in the software may allow for it. There are also a couple of photos below of the HDS12 running the first trial chip with the unprocessed older first draft imagery with Tracks showing.

    How much? Still to be determined but will depend on if the product is ordered with or without tracks and the extent of the tracks. The chips will have all of the imagery but we intend to sell versions with Tracks that run only for the upper keys to 7 mile bridge, the lower keys and another for all of the keys. FMT..coming to a chart plotter near you soon!

    buchanan_zpsea2f30e6.jpg
    Final image without tracks

    snakebight_zpsd6963a74.jpg
    Final Image without tracks

    crocdrag_zpse3747f9a.jpg
    Draft

    9milebank_zps2c6b987c.jpg
    Draft older test photo
  • Bad behaviorBad behavior Posts: 1,162 Officer
    Boy that would be nice up here. My only concern for our area is we have these rocks that like to move!!:hairraiser I've run the same track a hundred times and then left a foot right in the middle of it. Just wondering, if all these tracks are made public, will it not help a lot of yahoos into yalls best fishing holes? The fact that most are scared to run up here is all that saves a lot of good spots. Like I said, just wondering. Definitely not knocking this guys hard work!
    Need a little time off...For Bad Behavior....

    2014 Egret 2011 /Yamaha 250 SHO - sold
    2019 Pathfinder 2500 hybrid 350 Verado
  • TGunnTGunn Posts: 1,919 Captain
    snakebight_zpsd6963a74.jpg

    That's odd. This doesn't look like a very accurate representation of that flat at all........I don't see 349 boats parked on the flat. Only explanation is that it was taken on Christmas morning.
  • FishinMcNutFishinMcNut Posts: 536 Officer
    Just wondering, if all these tracks are made public, will it not help a lot of yahoos into yalls best fishing holes? The fact that most are scared to run up here is all that saves a lot of good spots.
    Something I constantly worry about from Rogers to Harney Rivers in the 10k. Not to mention, part time guides who teach newbies the area for a fee :nono
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 949 Officer
    How did you generate all those tracks? Did you physically run them all, or were they generated via aerial overlays?


    I ask because I see quite a few tracks going thru Florida bay that I'd be leary to run a bay boat across. Do you have a close up of the broad river entrance that you can post?


    broad1Capture_zps05e72c81.jpg

    Broad3Capture_zps4260168e.jpg

    When I'm running around the everglades and lower keys I am leary most of the time. Anytime you are cruising around on plane in 3' of water or less it is hard not to be leary even when you have done the same run plenty of times. Not sure what tracks you are talking about as you cant see any detail on those wide views (zooming in is required). With respect to FL Bay I have run them all personally, multiple times at low tide. I created the keys runs myself over approximately a decade of running around. A few are not for the faint of heart, particularly if you are not familiar with the run but they get the job done. Cuts and shallower areas that are not marked by channel markers will be coded with either Yellow Caution symbols or Red Caution symbols to denote where extra attention is required to make sure you hit the entrances accurately and pay attention. I don't recommend red cautions at low tide unless you have run them before as they can get very tight and if you don't line it up properly it can be trouble. But they can be done -- even at night.. as renegade and flatsboy can attest. I think they ran the inner narrows at near dead low in the pitch black once and that can be a white nuckle ride even when you can see well.
    This product is not for amateurs. If you want to know virtually all of what is available to run at a glance this is it. It's designed with extreme precision over many 100s of hours. No other mapping product provides anything like it; they just have the most generic tracks in main channels and when you put that with the substandard imagery I find on the alternatives it can make for a less than insightful navigation experience. I think it would even work on a Hewes unless your boat drafts 15 inches.
  • Renagade69Renagade69 Posts: 1,234 Officer
    Just wondering, if all these tracks are made public, will it not help a lot of yahoos into yalls best fishing holes?

    Its more for safe navigation in areas privy to local knowledge. The fishing spots are another story.
    Hells Bay Estero Bay Boat and Hells Bay Marquesas
  • TGunnTGunn Posts: 1,919 Captain
    Something I constantly worry about from Rogers to Harney Rivers in the 10k. Not to mention, part time guides who teach newbies the area for a fee :nono

    Ba...ba...ba...bab babb Babb but what are you talking about, Kevin?!?
  • SpookSpook Posts: 153 Deckhand
    I wonder if he still has suckers taking him fishing under the guise of him showing them spots.
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    broad1Capture_zps05e72c81.jpg

    Broad3Capture_zps4260168e.jpg

    When I'm running around the everglades and lower keys I am leary most of the time. Anytime you are cruising around on plane in 3' of water or less it is hard not to be leary even when you have done the same run plenty of times. Not sure what tracks you are talking about as you cant see any detail on those wide views (zooming in is required). With respect to FL Bay I have run them all personally, multiple times at low tide. I created the keys runs myself over approximately a decade of running around. A few are not for the faint of heart, particularly if you are not familiar with the run but they get the job done. Cuts and shallower areas that are not marked by channel markers will be coded with either Yellow Caution symbols or Red Caution symbols to denote where extra attention is required to make sure you hit the entrances accurately and pay attention. I don't recommend red cautions at low tide unless you have run them before as they can get very tight and if you don't line it up properly it can be trouble. But they can be done -- even at night.. as renegade and flatsboy can attest. I think they ran the inner narrows at near dead low in the pitch black once and that can be a white nuckle ride even when you can see well.
    This product is not for amateurs. If you want to know virtually all of what is available to run at a glance this is it. It's designed with extreme precision over many 100s of hours. No other mapping product provides anything like it; they just have the most generic tracks in main channels and when you put that with the substandard imagery I find on the alternatives it can make for a less than insightful navigation experience. I think it would even work on a Hewes unless your boat drafts 15 inches.


    Thats pretty cool. Like you mentioned, you can only put so much faith in a machine. There's plenty of creeks and rivers that run in the glades and the plotter shows you cutting thru islands, so the offset is always concerns me. The aerials do give you a good perspective on how to set-up your runs.


    The tracks in Fl Bay I was referring to were in between Islamorada and Flamingo. From the high level view, it looks the bay is covered with tracks.
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 949 Officer
    There's plenty of creeks and rivers that run in the glades and the plotter shows you cutting thru islands, so the offset is always concerns me.

    The tracks in Fl Bay I was referring to were in between Islamorada and Flamingo. From the high level view, it looks the bay is covered with tracks.

    I have the runs from Islamorada to Flamingo totally wired. No issues at all. I have mapped virtually every navigable cut in FL Bay. And if there is a track going through an island out there its only because that's where you are supposed to run and I have run it a bunch of times. When you are out there, you want to be able to see every possible option at a glance rather than just the main runs that could require going far out out of the way unnecessarily. But then again, this is not for puzzies. You have to know how to drive and how to read water. I still know a number of flats boat owners that are afraid to run their boat unless it's in a main channel.

    These photos below are some base map planning options I use when laying out my maps and they have inferior resolution to the photos I put on the chip but they do show some track and mapping examples from Biscayne Bay to 10,000 Islands to Marquesas. If you have your machine set to WAAS and you pay attention and stay on the line, you are not going to have a problem. Running the track does require some practice and attention to detail as you need to be sufficiently zoomed in to ensure you really are on it or adjacent to it and doing that while running 20 mph can be tricky the first few times. As renegade can attest, if your zoomed out too far what appears to be right on the line can be really 10' too far off line. Then your like .. "****.. how did I end up on this flat? Oh.. I was zoomed out to far and got off the line in this area where I really couldn't see so well with the sun glaring in"... Thus, if you are not familiar with a spot, zooming in when close to cuts and tighter spots is required. When zoomed in the tracks are draw with extreme precision and have been tested in multiple gps planning programs for accuracy and consistency. I drive by GPS at night and do some shallow areas but I only do that on runs I have done before a few times during the day.

    whitewaterCapture_zps621b3713.jpg

    spyCapture_zps8f35cd78.jpg

    arsenickerCapture_zps0c0b684e.jpg

    narrowsCapture_zps40035636.jpg

    marqCapture_zps66abd0af.jpg

    angelfishCapture_zps340753a6.jpg
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