cull bucks

Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,848 Captain
What makes a buck a cull buck? At what age should a buck be determined to be a cull? Please post up any photos of what you consider a cull and your reasoning for that.
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Replies

  • theoneandonly248theoneandonly248 Posts: 258 Deckhand
    Five inches above the hair line.
  • DONY 1DONY 1 Posts: 557 Officer
    ^^^this
    Don't cost nuttin to be nice
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    yup..agreed
  • Derek ArsuaDerek Arsua Posts: 2,474 Officer
    That's a pretty wide open question. It all depends on the management program in place. Some places might consider a spike at age 2 to be a cull buck others will say if he's not over 100" by 3 yrs old. Then again other places may even consider a non typical a cull because its not going to be a trophy 8-10-12 point
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    i'd consider this one a cull buck, but he's illegal on most FL WMA's now to shoot!

    IMG00061-20101013-1353.jpg
  • micci_manmicci_man Somewhere in FLPosts: 12,269 AG
    I think this wil be the 51rts time this has been discussed on here. I'm sure there are more threads than you have time to read if you search for them.
    Common Sense can't be bought, taught or gifted, yet it is one of the few things in life that is free, and most refuse to even attempt to possess it. - Miguel Cervantes
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    searching old threads is like listening to an old ford rusting at night...besides all the big antler hunters need to know which ones to pass up so they get big,and pointy,and mass.
  • james 14james 14 Posts: 2,868 Moderator
    Unless you are operating in a highly controlled environment you can do very little to influence genetics in a herd. Furthermore, just because a buck is a spike at whatever age doesn't mean he won't be a trophy when he's fully mature. The same can be said for any number of rack abnormalities. Unless you have 2-3 years' worth of photos of a deer with a particular trait you don't like you have no way of knowing whether he's just having a bad year or not. Even still just because you kill that buck doesn't mean you're really doing anything to remove that trait lest you also shoot every doe he's sired.

    The rule of nature is survival of the fittest. If you let them get some age on them the ones with the biggest racks will eventually do more of the breeding while pushing out the bucks with the smaller racks.

    So to answer the question about what a "cull" buck looks like...some would say there is no such thing except on the most highly controlled properties.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,848 Captain
    Is there any proof a lesser racked buck will not produce a trophy offspring?
  • spfldbowhunterspfldbowhunter Posts: 892 Officer
    Fawns get half their genetics from mama doe, so buck with a scrawny rack is just half of the equation. Younger bucks do most of the breeding as well, before they have reached their full potential themselves.
    Eph. 3:20
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    Cull Buck = is it worth it TO ME to spend hours dragging, gutting and processing given that *I* don't need the meat to live off of and 1-2 deer is all I need to satisfy my venison cravings...so most walk and I take pictures and enjoy being outside
  • PinkIndian321PinkIndian321 Posts: 485 Deckhand
    "Cull" bucks bring in a lot of money for well managed ranches every year. Makes you wonder..... do they really want to be rid of ALL the bad genetics? I'm sure it's not possible either way.
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 2,848 Captain
    Good and bad are relative terms. They give no absolute value. It is a reference point. So in that case there will always be culls or trophies and good or bad genetics. If bad is in relation to good and good is a 10pt at age 3 120" wide then that same buck at 105" wide is bad. Where if that deer came in my yard he is a "trophy".

    Essentially there will always be a cull buck, if you are trying to improve the appearance the herd. If your goal is to have a healthy population of deer then you will never have a cull buck.

    Even then there is no science to it, its just an eye test. And unless they're fenced in...they will walk somewhere else
  • Prop BlastProp Blast Posts: 375 Officer
    It depends on your objective for deer managment. It could go three ways in my experience:

    1. You want to reduce the population of older males who no longer reproduce, but can/will drive off younger bucks who are in their prime for mating.

    2. You want to reduce the total population living off the land. Since most deer hunters are after buck/racks, they'll pass on doe's. This leads to an excees in the doe population, and habitat consumption. Then you "cull" doe's.

    3. You want to manage for bucks with large racks. Got to be careful here. Just because a young deer is only a spike, doesn't mean he'll eventually get a nice 8-10 pt rack in a few years.

    What do you want?

    PB
  • AllenRAllenR Posts: 2,699 Captain
    Any legal buck that walks in front of my son is getting culled
  • james 14james 14 Posts: 2,868 Moderator
    Skunk Ape wrote: »
    Is there any proof a lesser racked buck will not produce a trophy offspring?

    Does a short man and a short woman create short kids? I work with hundreds of kids and, generally speaking, they come out looking like mom and dad.
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 2,848 Captain
    Can you judge right now who is going to be a "trophy" out of your group of kids? Thats the real question. Because that is the practice that most use, the eye test
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    i love old man fletchers approach, if a buck less then 8 walks in front of you shoot it...if its gnarly shoot it. His place had more trophies then you could shake a stick at....shoot a doe and he'd shoot you.

    How boring would it be to see 8's and 10's running all over the place...I swear this thing has gotten out of hand. Glad I had a hard earned respect for killing any buck growing up,without the aid of google earth,trail cams,and any other fancy shortcut.I have a much deeper respect for things I guess.antlers never really meant much if you brought a deer home for the cooler. Most racks were given to the dogs to chew on.ok,i'm getting off topic(slap myself)
  • flydownflydown Posts: 6,462 Admiral
    I'll cull a buck that shows the same genetic deformities year after year. I won't shoot a buck with a deformed rack if I haven't seen him the year before due to his rack deformity possibly caused by injury.

    Other than that, I shoot what makes my heart race.
    DYING for me was the most HE could do. LIVING for HIM is the least I can do
  • james 14james 14 Posts: 2,868 Moderator
    Reel Teal wrote: »
    Can you judge right now who is going to be a "trophy" out of your group of kids? Thats the real question. Because that is the practice that most use, the eye test

    That's a hard comparison to make considering the information you have to go on when looking at a deer compared to a human being. A more accurate comparison might be to look at a 2 or 3 year old and try to figure out if they're going to be tall, short, fat, skinny, etc.

    I'm not disagreeing, however, that is the practice that is often used. Bucks need to have a chance to get some age on them before any judgement can be made and, even still, influencing genetics is no easy task.
  • james 14james 14 Posts: 2,868 Moderator
    i'd consider this one a cull buck, but he's illegal on most FL WMA's now to shoot!

    IMG00061-20101013-1353.jpg

    That's a stud of a cowhorn! Did you shoot him?
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,848 Captain
    As long as a doe is half of the equation,can you ever really create a superior race of deer?
  • Panhandler80Panhandler80 Posts: 7,833 Moderator
    james 14 wrote: »
    If you let them get some age on them the ones with the biggest racks will eventually do more of the breeding while pushing out the bucks with the smaller racks.

    Not at all sure about this.
    "Whatcha doin' in my waters?"
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 5,359 Admiral
    I love Big Horns , But I measure Cull Bucks by how empty my Freezer is.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    Most studies have found (and deer managers that work lands on a regular basis will concur) that unless you allow your deer herd to grow in age, you will not have trophy or quality deer because you are shooting too many young bucks. Further, it has also been shown that the majority of breeding in most areas of the USA is being done by 1-2.5 year old bucks. Therefore, if you want your deer population to grow and you want to shoot more mature bucks with bigger racks, don't cull anything and only shoot deer over 3.5 years of age. If you want true trophy class deer, don't shoot anything under 5 years old. Keep your doe numbers down to balance the herd and increase rut competition among bucks.

    On lands that are truly trophy managed, they do not shoot any "cull bucks" under 3 years of age. In most cases, they are shooting 8 pts or 6 pts at 3.5 years of age because they only want to continue feeding bucks with 10 or more pts. It's not about breeding genetics as much as it is about feeding bucks to maturity that have the genetic traits they want to harvest as a trophy. The only place that true genetic culling can take place is in a high fence environment where the breed stock has been hand selected and can be more precisely controlled. On open lands, it's more about increasing deer population, balancing the ratio and putting age on the bucks.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    i'd consider this one a cull buck, but he's illegal on most FL WMA's now to shoot!

    IMG00061-20101013-1353.jpg

    Let's talk facts and not fiction. The majority of WMAs still have the 5" rule in place. And with the new changes in Zone D regulations, he's going to be legal in Zone D2 with the inclusion of the 10" beam rule.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    u tell me the amount of places compared to him being legal,and non legal Chuck...its just a fact to share.

    BTW, hard judgement call on a 10 in beam on the hoof...is that for real?
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    Yes it's for real, and it was suggested and asked for by the Southeastern Dog Hunter's Association which is the largest dog hunting organization in NW FL. They are the ones who wanted a fork horn rule instead of a 6 pt rule but suggested this as an "OR" inclusion to the rule. FWC agreed and the Commissioners voted it in last week.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
  • bonebone Posts: 1,065 Officer
    Cull buck rules work only in the fact that when a hunter shoots an undesirable buck he is not shooting a desirable one. Thus the good buck lives, young or old. It is no wonder that "trophy" buck states and areas have a 1 buck limit. Altering the genetics of a wild deer population is nearly impossible antler wise. So a cull buck is merely a substitute buck for when a hunter can't kill or wait on a good buck. Which is fine as long as you are happy with him.
  • huntmstrhuntmstr Posts: 6,285 Admiral
    Exactly right Bone.

    Rich, here's a map of all WMAs. The ones with numbers circled in blue have antler restrictions now or with the changes coming. Still only about 1/4 of the WMAs in the entire state have APRs that would make that spike of yours illegal.
    Bushnell, Primos and Final Approach Pro Staff. Proud member of the Fab Five, Big Leaugers and Bobble Head 4.

    I had you pissed off at hello.
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