Honeymoon Lake

Anyone fish HM lake here?

I went yesterday and saw newly erected NO TRESPASSING signs erected every where. I was surprised to see this there. I was not aware the home owners there owned the lake?

Anyone know?
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Replies

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,163 AG
    A response to all the duck hunters I'm sure.....
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Docked WagesDocked Wages Posts: 2,911 Admin
    Thats a great question Jim. I fish there often over the past 10 years but have not been there much recently. I have heard they claim to own the water and the lake but when they tried to gate the water access that had legal issues. I know that they own the land surrouonding the lake since they have a dock on the IRL side but not sure if they own the water or lake itself. Last year they dredged water access to the lake, cut and removed a bunch of foilage that inlcuded mangroves. I believe that was intentional, got fined and moved on. I would like to know if they can keep you out or not. Just becuase you put up a sign doesnt mean you own the water. Perhaps a search of county property appraisers office could provide some factual info.
    Mark P. Wilson
    Marine Surveyor, SAMS-SA, ABYC
    Wilson Yacht Survey, Inc
    Old Bahama Bay (Owner / Board of Directors) 



  • redjimredjim Posts: 774 Officer
    Makes sense Joe.

    Mark, I was just looking for a place for us to throw the long rod. Poled around a while and saw nothing.

    The signs had something on them stating a State Statute and said they were erected by the Honey Moon Lake maintance committee.
  • myjackmyjack Posts: 232 Officer
    I've fished this area many times and haven't caught much inside the lake, outside the inlet is a decent spot. inside was junk fish, but I might not be fishing the right part of the lake. its only 2 feet of water for the most part of the main entry way.
    The property appraiser web site shows most of the owners own the land across the lake and the strip of land bordering the lagoon.
    I think they'd be hard pressed to run people off for trespassing. I know the homeowner on the southern end of the property, nice people but she doesn't want the other owners to have boats or docks inside the lake. I think she's a little greedy because she has direct river access but whatever. I know if this was my property i'd want the ability to have a dock and water access...

    honeymoonlake_zps64a5dd0e.jpg
  • Docked WagesDocked Wages Posts: 2,911 Admin
    The should dredge the whole thing and make a safe harbor out of it. That would turn it into a fish haven :-)

    For the most part the lake is full of bait fish (mullet) and crabs. Real muddy bottom versus grass flat. Not a lot of grass, never was. I have caught some really nice gator trout under the brush back when it was tough to find a big trout in the IRL. But lately you can find more big trout elsewhere. I fish it primarily because it is close to my house, not worth making a special trip to if you are reading this from out of the area.
    Mark P. Wilson
    Marine Surveyor, SAMS-SA, ABYC
    Wilson Yacht Survey, Inc
    Old Bahama Bay (Owner / Board of Directors) 



  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    They don't own the lake they own the land under the lake but the public has riparian rights with access thought the canal. Just stay off the dry land you have no right to be on the land with out permission. Fishing is good for me at the canal of the lake when there is some current.:fishing
  • flatskillaflatskilla Posts: 67 Greenhorn
    It would have been a decent place to throw a fly about 2 months ago ... inside the mouththere were baby tarpon everywhere demolishing small mullet and minnows...
  • Fins13Fins13 Posts: 257 Deckhand
    I was told directly from an FWC officer that they own the whole thing. there are two places in Brevard county that is like this. Honeymoon lake and the eau galle yacht club. if they say leave you have too or can't go at all.
  • Docked WagesDocked Wages Posts: 2,911 Admin
    Fins13 wrote: »
    I was told directly from an FWC officer that they own the whole thing. there are two places in Brevard county that is like this. Honeymoon lake and the eau galle yacht club. if they say leave you have too or can't go at all.

    That is such a great debate, water versus land. I do recall a simlar thread here many years ago about the Eau Gallie yacht club and their exception to the law. So if you own the "land" under the water you must be paying taxes on that land but you dont own the water that flows across it so does that prevent any someone for floating across your land? Owning land does not prevent airplanes from flying across you property. I think that it is the exception and not norm to own the land under water and I think that Fins13 may be right that these two locations may have that exception.
    Mark P. Wilson
    Marine Surveyor, SAMS-SA, ABYC
    Wilson Yacht Survey, Inc
    Old Bahama Bay (Owner / Board of Directors) 



  • Docked WagesDocked Wages Posts: 2,911 Admin
    Fins13 wrote: »
    I was told directly from an FWC officer that they own the whole thing. there are two places in Brevard county that is like this. Honeymoon lake and the eau galle yacht club. if they say leave you have too or can't go at all.

    That is such a great debate, water versus land. I do recall a simlar thread here many years ago about the Eau Gallie yacht club and their exception to the law. So if you own the "land" under the water you must be paying taxes on that land but you dont own the water that flows across it so does that prevent any someone for floating across your land? Owning land does not prevent airplanes from flying across you property so where do the draw the line? I think that it is the exception and not norm to own the land under water and I think that Fins13 may be right that these two locations may have that exception.
    Mark P. Wilson
    Marine Surveyor, SAMS-SA, ABYC
    Wilson Yacht Survey, Inc
    Old Bahama Bay (Owner / Board of Directors) 



  • frankt75frankt75 Monroe, MichiganPosts: 32 Greenhorn
    redjim wrote: »
    Makes sense Joe.

    Mark, I was just looking for a place for us to throw the long rod. Poled around a while and saw nothing.

    The signs had something on them stating a State Statute and said they were erected by the Honey Moon Lake maintance committee.

    Does the sign give the number of the state statute? It would be interesting to look the statute up. My understanding is that the Indian River is a federal navigable waterway and that any part of it cannot be owned by an individual.
  • redjimredjim Posts: 774 Officer
    It did, but I did not write it down.

    I will get it next time I am up that way.
  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    My understanding was before they dug the canal the lake was private property. The home owners wanted access to the river so they dug the canal to have access but in doing so now allows access for the general public to enter the lake. If all the home owners have a submerged land lease with the state of Florida then the home owners have the say so. Most marinas have a submerged land lease but home owners normally do not. The home owners want to keep that Piece of Paradise for themselves and not want to share with the general public. I will keep fishing honeymoon lake until I see a land lease from the home owners.
  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    Did some research and did not find any land leases. Found this ad that states "navigable waterfront property" navigable water is open to the general public. "Riparian Rights"

    Sitting high on a hilltop, this stunning, gated estate is unquestionably one of the most unique properties in Florida. The panoramic views of Honeymoon Lake, The Banana & Indian River are nothing short of spectacular & one of the highest elevations in FL. Award winning builder's own home. Exceptional details and master craftmanship define this multi-level Mediterranean-style home. Boasts 7, 767 square feet, 4-car garage, stone windows, barrel tile roof, 3 fireplaces, gourmet kitchen with butler pantry, mahogony paneled library with built in shelves stone columns, Italian Saturnia marble floors with insets, maid's quarters, security gate, fountain, pool, spa, cabana, dock and boat lift. Newly dug channel to the Banana River makes this a navigable waterfront property and a fisherman's paradise
  • Riptide31Riptide31 Posts: 478 Deckhand
    At the north end of that strip of land on the IR side of the lake, there's a house that I'd would have sworn was going to be a hotel. **** that thing is huge.
  • mclembassmclembass Posts: 22 Greenhorn
    I think this was discussed when the homeowners opened the access to the lake. I thought the FWC stated that once they opened it up the lake (water) became part of the Indian River and was open to everyone. I did take a cell phone picture of sign & I think the Statute they refer to is 813.09. I could not find it online maybe someaody else will have better luck.
  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    Could it be statute 810.09 Trespass on property other than structure or conveyance?
  • redjimredjim Posts: 774 Officer
    I saw the sign a couple weeks ago and the 810.09 rings a bell with me. I think that could be the one.
  • irlyriserirlyriser Posts: 95 Greenhorn
    They had a boom stretched across the entrance for a while.
  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    I was looking at google map and they were dredging the lake. Most likely the reason for the boom and the signs construction zone.
  • Catalina26Catalina26 Posts: 231 Officer
    They don't own the lake they own the land under the lake but the public has riparian rights with access thought the canal. Just stay off the dry land you have no right to be on the land with out permission. Fishing is good for me at the canal of the lake when there is some current.:fishing

    You couldn't be more wrong just saying.. They own both the water column and the land under it. You are not allowed inside the lake at all. You are not allowed passed that new sign they posted. That is the reason why they posted it there. They got with Fwc and asked what they could do and showed proper documents stating they own both and it's accurate.
  • Catalina26Catalina26 Posts: 231 Officer
    That is such a great debate, water versus land. I do recall a simlar thread here many years ago about the Eau Gallie yacht club and their exception to the law. So if you own the "land" under the water you must be paying taxes on that land but you dont own the water that flows across it so does that prevent any someone for floating across your land? Owning land does not prevent airplanes from flying across you property. I think that it is the exception and not norm to own the land under water and I think that Fins13 may be right that these two locations may have that exception.

    Fin is correct. What makes it the exception is that before the lake was ever there it was just a piece of land. When they sold the land to build they sold it in the long pieces like the picture someone posted. They used the land in the back if property which is now the lake to build their foundations up above water level. Creating the lake. They pulled a permit to dredge through to the river to allow water flow into the lake. This is how they own both water and land. The eau gallie yacht club same thing. And also a lake in Hawaii only three we could find in the US
  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    Yes I may be wrong there is very rare times like you have said above. Where can I view proper documents stating they own both water and land and the general public has no rights to the water.
  • Docked WagesDocked Wages Posts: 2,911 Admin
    Real time photo from on the water. The sign is made of granite stone and engraved.....pudytury.jpguvu8a7u7.jpg



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mark P. Wilson
    Marine Surveyor, SAMS-SA, ABYC
    Wilson Yacht Survey, Inc
    Old Bahama Bay (Owner / Board of Directors) 



  • Catalina26Catalina26 Posts: 231 Officer
    Yes I may be wrong there is very rare times like you have said above. Where can I view proper documents stating they own both water and land and the general public has no rights to the water.

    Feel free to knock on one of their doors they will be happy to show you the documents then they will slam the door in your face and say get off the property. They are about as ignorant and as stuck up as the house they live in. I wouldn't fish inside.
  • Catalina26Catalina26 Posts: 231 Officer
    Trust me biggest on going issue when it's duck season and the blue bills raft in there. Calls non stop all season.. Very annoying to deal with
  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    Looks like I am wrong. If I am reading the laws right any waterway dug after apx. the 1950's and is privately owned under the water can be closed off to the general public. This could be the start of a lot of closures to the general public for fishing access. If the home owners own the land under the water in the canal behind there house the home owners can get together and close that canal off to the general public. Been fishing honeymoon lake occasionally for the last 40 years just hate to see it closed off.:mad Just hope this is not the start of a lot of closers like the Manatee zones.
  • HookupAndGoHookupAndGo Posts: 201 Deckhand
    Catalina26 wrote: »
    ... They pulled a permit to dredge through to the river to allow water flow into the lake. ... US

    If I remember correctly, there was an article in FL Today or somewhere when they first dug this out. I don't think they pulled a permit and it created a big issue with some government powers that be.... But, I'm sure since they are who they are, if there was any issues, it got fixed and quietly we all lose out again.
  • HookupAndGoHookupAndGo Posts: 201 Deckhand
    Actually, here is the link: http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090103/NEWS01/901030316/Man-making-amends-dredge-work

    Unfortunately, you have to pay to see the full article, but read it and come to your own conclusion....
  • redjimredjim Posts: 774 Officer
    Catalina26, you seem to know a lot about what goes on in there.

    Lets just say me, or one of these other gentleman is in there snooping around,.... homeowner calls FWC.

    We going to get arrested for that or asked to leave?

    Thanks,....
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