An opinion on spaying and neutering dogs.

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  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    If you don't think the AMVA has an agenda here you're an idiot.

    More name calling without any data.... Lack of argument.


    And so everyone understands....

    I am not saying there are not more dogs and cats than available homes. It varies from place to place. But in many places in the US it is a serious problem. But the reality is.... We do not really know how many dogs are in the US and do not know shelter numbers. Some numbers were posted.... But at best those are guesses. There is NO centralized reporting criteria on pet dogs or cats beyond the county level. And aside from one place in the US there is NO accounting or reporting requirement of shelters and rescues. That place is Florida. The law went into effect last summer. It took us YEARS to get it passed. Countless hours and a TON of money. But it is an important law. How do you address a problem if you do not know how large or small the problem is. If you do not know the source of the problem.



    What I am saying is spay/neuter is not going to solve the problem or make a significant difference.

    And here is why.....
    1)Responsible people are going to be responsible. They are going to ensure that their dogs are not responsible for unwanted litters.
    a) Some will use spay neuter and that is fine..
    b) Others will use assorted management methods and that is fine as well.

    2) Irresponsible people are going to be irresponsible.
    If they are not responsible enough to keep their animals from producing unwanted litters, do you really expect them to alter their pets?

    Heck, merely registering dogs fails miserably. The best County in the state is believed to have less than a 30 percent compliance rate.

    Add that to the fact that data is GROWING day by day..... That altering dogs significantly affects their health and longevity in a negative manner... Makes it time to look to something else......

    In the end.... It is not going to be the JohnnyBandits or the Pupraisers, or the Joey Buttons..... OR the policy makers, voters or politicians that enact a great change in the spay and neuter drama....

    IT WILL BE THE LIABILITY Insurance companies.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Have you grown a pair and confronted your neighbor?

    Or just call the police if they fart up wind?
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • Triple Threat 33TTriple Threat 33T Posts: 18,669 Admin
    Hey guys let's focus on the topic and not each other
    "Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect us. Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us in our time of need. Amen."
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    How so?

    Are you really saying that if there are fewer dogs Vets will make more money?


    Please give me the math.

    Spaying is not going to create fewer dogs. We all agree the shelters are full of them. Craigslist, the papers, etc.
    And when we run low on dogs......we import them...

    Street dogs from Puerto Rico and Mexico.... Potcake Dogs from all over the islands... We ship them in all the time.....

    200 years from now your argument may be valid.... But at no time during modern history has there been a dog shortage.
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 Officer
    "But that does" PROVE once again JB remains in abject denial. Add HSUS to the growing list of entities JB knows better than.
    But that does NOT prove that speuter results in a reduction of dogs in shelters.

    All those figures represent are current statistical numbers how many dogs are altered.

    And if you look behind the research on those numbers you could drive the USS Ronald Reagan through the holes in it.

    The HSUS is not a rescue organization. It has NO association with any shelter.

    It is in fact a radical animal rights organization that collects funds under false pretenses and uses those funds for political lobbying against dog owners, hunters, ranchers and fishermen.

    Yup! "JB was peddling the idea nobody could ID a Pitbull? Not vets. Not Animal Services. Not LEO. Not reporters, photographers, or editors. He insisted that NOT even the dog's owners knew what kind of dog they had". Forgot, he'd also dismissed AKC.

    "And if you look behind the research" objectively, the reader very quickly realizes that JB must also think he knows better than ASPCA, AVMA, APPA, U.S. Pet Owner's Demographic Sourcebook & Dr. S. Cohen.

    Yes, estimates of how many dogs are in USA do vary & Google hits show 83.3 million as a high, but often repeated number. But I didn't look further after seeing 69.9 million, 73+ million & 78.2 million estimates, especially b/c it required comparing dates & defining if the number was just dogs in households, or included strays & those in shelters.

    But, no matter how JB tries to slice it, there are still easily 10's of millions of dogs that are 'fixed' & there's simply no way to deny it.

    Maybe JB wants to try to deny The Birds & The Bees for an encore?
  • Hickory DogHickory Dog Posts: 5,047 Officer
    If you want to talk about an agenda look no further than HSUS - they are PETA in sheep's clothing.
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    "But that does" PROVE once again JB remains in abject denial. Add HSUS to the growing list of entities JB knows better than.



    Yup! "JB was peddling the idea nobody could ID a Pitbull? Not vets. Not Animal Services. Not LEO. Not reporters, photographers, or editors. He insisted that NOT even the dog's owners knew what kind of dog they had". Forgot, he'd also dismissed AKC.

    "And if you look behind the research" objectively, the reader very quickly realizes that JB must also think he knows better than ASPCA, AVMA, APPA, U.S. Pet Owner's Demographic Sourcebook & Dr. S. Cohen.

    Yes, estimates of how many dogs are in USA do vary & Google hits show 83.3 million as a high, but often repeated number. But I didn't look further after seeing 69.9 million, 73+ million & 78.2 million estimates, especially b/c it required comparing dates & defining if the number was just dogs in households, or included strays & those in shelters.

    But, no matter how JB tries to slice it, there are still easily 10's of millions of dogs that are 'fixed' & there's simply no way to deny it.

    Maybe JB wants to try to deny The Birds & The Bees for an encore?

    Do you know anything about HSUS?

    The fact that you are using them as a source of proof on this forum is very funny.
    And very evident that you know nothing about them.

    The HSUS is NOT associated with your local humane societies. Nearly all the money they collect in donations goes to oppress the rights of animal owners HUNTERS and FISHERMEN....
    The HSUS is a politically involved Animal Rights organization. They are ANTI hunting, ANTI fishing, ANTI ranching, ANTI owning animals for any reason. They are larger, wealthier, and stronger than PETA.


    And of course the HSUS has the highest number. But it is a NUMBER THEY PULLED out of the air....And if you did the math before you posted you would know that number just does work. IF the number of dogs is correct, and the number that was altered was correct. OR even within 10 percent of their figure. The number of dogs in the United States would be dropping RAPIDLY.....

    The lower, ASPCA numbers, etc are no better. They are all guesses.....
    Because as I said, there is no accounting criteria on the number of pets beyond the county level anywhere in this country.... Even if the county has good data... There is NO PLACE to send it forward... .
    And the county level criteria is inaccurate because it depends on voluntary compliance.


    We in Florida are working on that... We just got the shelter reporting bill passed and made law... Other laws are to follow... But that is one state..

    Bottom line is.... There is no way to collect the data
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    Go reference HSUS is one of the regional sections... Or better yet, conservation or Hunting.... .

    They will stone you and then drag you behind a mule, run you over with a tractor before beheading you with a dull spoon.

    You have every right to disagree with me... But use HSUS? You might as well invite the good folks over on the anti hunting and vegan forums to join us.....

    As for the Pit Bull thing.... You keep wanting to drag that into it... We tried it live at the state fair... Five pedigreed dogs.... Less than 5 percent guessed the pit bull. Funniest thing is.... More people guessed the Boxer as the Pit Bull than the pit bull. This year we are filming it.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    As for the Pit Bull thing.... You keep wanting to drag that into it... We tried it live at the state fair... Five pedigreed dogs.... Less than 5 percent guessed the pit bull. Funniest thing is.... More people guessed the Boxer as the Pit Bull than the pit bull. This year we are filming it.


    And these are the idiots that shouldn't get their dogs spayed and neutered?

    Gotcha


    I'm sure there wouldn't be ANY unwanted litters.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    And these are the idiots that shouldn't get their dogs spayed and neutered?

    Its hard to do.....Unless APBTs are someone's breed or they have a lot of time with the breed, it is hard to pick one out of a lineup
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Not really.

    Anyone that knows anything about dogs could do it.


    People that buy dogs from puppy stores and back yard breeders are who will belive your load of crap.

    Then the shelters will be killing even more dogs.


    Face it. The average person is an idiot. Go to Walmart right now and there will be 100 of them walking around.

    They need to get their dogs fixed.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    Not really.

    Anyone that knows anything about dogs could do it.


    People that buy dogs from puppy stores and back yard breeders are who will belive your load of crap.

    Then the shelters will be killing even more dogs.


    Face it. The average person is an idiot. Go to Walmart right now and there will be 100 of them walking around.

    They need to get their dogs fixed.


    I could stump you.... Easily...
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Keep thinking that.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • onthefiftyonthefifty Posts: 4,072 Captain
    Its hard to do.....Unless APBTs are someone's breed or they have a lot of time with the breed, it is hard to pick one out of a lineup
    Agreed, I've known a few PBT's and all were nothing but nice. It's all about who raises them.

    Sorry for previous comments, JB, just kidding. No insult intended!!!

    And one of my new best friends is a boxer...obnoxious little ****! I love the little s***!
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    Keep thinking that.


    Care to back that up with cash?

    But it will be done in person and you will have to post a bond to a trusted third party.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Care to back that up with cash?

    But it will be done in person and you will have to post a bond to a trusted third party.


    To pry me away from my family time to prove you wrong would cost you 5 figures.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    To pry me away from my family time to prove you wrong would cost you 5 figures.

    All talk.... I thought so....
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    You got me.

    I can't pick a Pitt from a Yorkie.


    You got me.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • onthefiftyonthefifty Posts: 4,072 Captain
    You got me.

    I can't pick a Pitt from a Yorkie.


    You got me.

    Quit trying to pick pitts from your yorkie... it will start to hurt.
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    You got me.

    I can't pick a Pitt from a Yorkie.


    You got me.

    Nothing else to discuss here.... You stuck your neck out then popped with back like a box turtle once it got real...


    Back to spay and neuter....
  • onthefiftyonthefifty Posts: 4,072 Captain
    You stuck your neck out then popped with back like a box turtle once it got real...


    Huh?
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    You got me.

    I couldn't tell the difference between a springer spaniel and a giant schnauzer.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    onthefifty wrote: »
    Huh?

    He thinks if he says something it is real.

    Dude makes more stuff up than my 3 yr old.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • onthefiftyonthefifty Posts: 4,072 Captain
    I've always been fond of Chesapeake Retrievers...
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    onthefifty wrote: »
    I've always been fond of Chesapeake Retrievers...

    Some nights... .If the moon is just right... and I actually sleep... which does not happen that often any more.... I have nightmares about chessies.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    onthefifty wrote: »
    I've always been fond of Chesapeake Retrievers...

    He will be along shortly challenging you to a bet that you couldn't pick one out of a line up of sheep.
    FSU is the best football team of all time!
  • onthefiftyonthefifty Posts: 4,072 Captain
    Some nights... .If the moon is just right... and I actually sleep... which does not happen that often any more.... I have nightmares about chessies.

    What about Choc Labs?

    My #1 Fave...
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    onthefifty wrote: »
    What about Choc Labs?

    My #1 Fave...

    I like Labs.... Not my number one favorite. But my wife loves them. They are growing on me.

    Color does not really matter to me. I like Chocolates fine. We have a black and that is my wife's favorite.

    If I HAD to pick a favorite, I like Yellow especially the Dudly Yellows... Those are the yellows with the liver colored noses.
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    This is our Lab Girl at the Vet for her annual check up Saturday Morning...

    156263_10202342993249937_1779618364_n.jpg
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,301 Admiral
    Tecate's Fly Me To the Moon aka Keely..... 15 months old... and yes she is intact... No she will not produce a litter.
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