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Precedent?? How do you like the idea of Heavily armed officers?

NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,386 AG
You know how when you travel to certain countries you usually run into police officers walking around with long weapons.

Just curious as to your thoughts on this proposal in Boston. Do you want to see officers walking around with these Weapons?


Incoming Boston mayor, police clash over AR-15 proposal

Boston police are clashing with the city's incoming mayor over a proposal to arm some officers with AR-15 rifles.

Mayor-elect Martin Walsh reportedly came out against the plan over the weekend. The Boston Police Department had been pushing for a limited number of officers to carry the high-powered rifles, in light of recent mass shootings as well as the Boston Marathon bombing earlier this year.

But after the incoming mayor initially stayed mum on the idea, a spokeswoman for Walsh told the Boston Herald he's not on board -- not yet, anyway.

"Mayor-elect Walsh is opposed to the AR-15 rifles," she was quoted as saying. "Unless otherwise convinced by the Boston Police Department, he does not think they are necessary."

Police officials had pushed for the rifle purchases in response to mass shootings like the one in Newtown, Conn. The Boston Marathon bombing happened after the plan was already in the works but nevertheless fueled the proposal.

One unnamed officer told the Herald that "it gives you at least a fighting chance if you go into something where suspects have more firepower than you."

Under the plan, according to MyFoxBoston.com, the city would buy 33 AR-15 rifles, at $2,500 apiece. They would go to two trained officers in all 11 districts of Boston.

But the plan needs the mayor's sign-off, and a number of critics had spoken out against the idea, questioning whether giving officers such rifles would increase the chances of innocent people getting shot.

"I don't believe arming them with assault weapons is going to make them any safer," City Councilor Charles Yancey said, according to MyFoxBoston.com.

taken from: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/30/incoming-boston-mayor-police-clash-over-ar-15-proposal/
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Replies

  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 21,694 AG
    And the militarization of LEOs continues.
  • jamesfreddycjamesfreddyc Posts: 960 Officer
    And the militarization of LEOs continues.
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  • White DogWhite Dog Posts: 5,343 Officer
    I don't see giving them AR's as militarization. They should have what they face on the street.
    It's larger weapons, armored military vehicles, hollow points, and DHS backed military training that I see as a threat.
    The White Dog.........R.I.P..........1996 - June 2nd, 2011
  • capt louiecapt louie citrus countyPosts: 10,770 Moderator
    Our neighbors to the South do.
    "You'll get your weather"
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    I'm surprised Boston is just now thinking about police officers carrying AR-15s. I thought they already did, and I thought even Orlando police officers have that level of weapons in the trunks of their squad cars.

    As far back as the mid '90s, uniformed security carrying Uzis was a common sight at many European airports. I often wondered how long before we see that level of security forces in our airports.

    As for city police forces carrying Ar-15s, there are so many AR-15s in the hands of private citizens now I can't really blame them.

    But, why AR-15s? Is it because they're cheap and plentiful? Wouldn't police officers be better off with M-4s?
  • White DogWhite Dog Posts: 5,343 Officer
    phlatsphil wrote: »

    As far back as the mid '90s, uniformed security carrying Uzis was a common sight at many European airports. I often wondered how long before we see that level of security forces in our airports.

    I'd much rather have that at the airports then the TSA.
    The White Dog.........R.I.P..........1996 - June 2nd, 2011
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 7,045 Admiral
    White Dog wrote: »
    I don't see giving them AR's as militarization. They should have what they face on the street.
    It's larger weapons, armored military vehicles, hollow points, and DHS backed military training that I see as a threat.

    The police almost never face AR type weapons on the streets despite the hype of the media and control activists. The vast majority of shootings "on the street" are committed by thugs with really cheap hand guns.
    Deo Vindice
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,340 AG
    Ever travel in Mexico and go thru roadblocks with a half dozen pubescent kids with machine guns. Kinda creepy.
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,386 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    I'm surprised Boston is just now thinking about police officers carrying AR-15s. I thought they already did, and I thought even Orlando police officers have that level of weapons in the trunks of their squad cars.

    As far back as the mid '90s, uniformed security carrying Uzis was a common sight at many European airports. I often wondered how long before we see that level of security forces in our airports.

    As for city police forces carrying Ar-15s, there are so many AR-15s in the hands of private citizens now I can't really blame them.

    But, why AR-15s? Is it because they're cheap and plentiful? Wouldn't police officers be better off with M-4s?

    Wow....You walked right into that one....Sir, You are a study in Paradox-ism. See Below, posted less than 24 hrs ago.
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Anyone who can't hit the broad side of a barn should carry a weapon with a 16 round magazine.

    I know, I know, I know..... 2A, shall not infringe, yada yada yada...... but anyone, you know the drill, anyone with half a brain knows that in a self defense situation, it's over after 1 or 2 bullets have been fired. It ain't TV or the movies where you'll be ducking behind doors or firing out of a window at the indians as they circle the cabin.

    OKY DOKY, now we have something to discuss. Let the bashing begin.

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?140053-Good-Christmas-present-Good-for-Nikki
  • White DogWhite Dog Posts: 5,343 Officer
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Ever travel in Mexico and go thru roadblocks with a half dozen pubescent kids with machine guns. Kinda creepy.

    And that has what to do with the OP?
    The White Dog.........R.I.P..........1996 - June 2nd, 2011
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,340 AG
    White Dog wrote: »
    And that has what to do with the OP?

    Do we really want to be like Mexico?
  • White DogWhite Dog Posts: 5,343 Officer
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Do we really want to be like Mexico?

    What does that have to do with the OP?
    The White Dog.........R.I.P..........1996 - June 2nd, 2011
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,340 AG
    White Dog wrote: »
    What does that have to do with the OP?

    Who are you, the post police?
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 21,694 AG
    Wow....You walked right into that one....Sir, You are a study in Paradox-ism. See Below, posted less than 24 hrs ago.



    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?140053-Good-Christmas-present-Good-for-Nikki

    That will leave a mark....
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 21,694 AG
    White Dog wrote: »
    I don't see giving them AR's as militarization. They should have what they face on the street.
    It's larger weapons, armored military vehicles, hollow points, and DHS backed military training that I see as a threat.

    Sure it is. It's all incremental. Slowly you get used to it...started with SWAT teams, now even the DER has a SWAT team.
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    Anyone who can't hit the broad side of a barn should carry a weapon with a 16 round magazine.

    I know, I know, I know..... 2A, shall not infringe, yada yada yada...... but anyone, you know the drill, anyone with half a brain knows that in a self defense situation, it's over after 1 or 2 bullets have been fired. It ain't TV or the movies where you'll be ducking behind doors or firing out of a window at the indians as they circle the cabin.

    OKY DOKY, now we have something to discuss. Let the bashing begin.

    phlatsphil wrote: »
    I'm surprised Boston is just now thinking about police officers carrying AR-15s. I thought they already did, and I thought even Orlando police officers have that level of weapons in the trunks of their squad cars.

    As far back as the mid '90s, uniformed security carrying Uzis was a common sight at many European airports. I often wondered how long before we see that level of security forces in our airports.

    As for city police forces carrying Ar-15s, there are so many AR-15s in the hands of private citizens now I can't really blame them.

    But, why AR-15s? Is it because they're cheap and plentiful? Wouldn't police officers be better off with M-4s?
    Wow....You walked right into that one....Sir, You are a study in Paradox-ism. See Below, posted less than 24 hrs ago.
    That will leave a mark....

    No marks left... I meant what I said in both and I know what I mean. Sadly, you guys are 1 or 0, black or white, up or down type of guys. You know no middle ground.

    In response to Niki Haley getting a new firearm for Christmas, someone said "what a great carry weapon" it is.... and my response to that is for self defense purposes, you likely won't ever need 15 rounds. I carry with a 5-round magazine. It fits comfortably in my pocket. It's highly unlikely I will ever use it, and even more unlikely that I'll be in an extended gun battle where I need 15 rounds.

    In this thread about AR-15s, all I said is I don't blame them. Given the level of firepower in the streets, I don't blame them.... I don't necessarily approve or disapprove, I just don't blame them. I also said I thought they already did.

    So where is the paradox?
  • Ol MuckyOl Mucky Posts: 5,603 Admiral
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Ever travel in Mexico and go thru roadblocks with a half dozen pubescent kids with machine guns. Kinda creepy.

    Got off a train in Brussels one morning, early.
    Was met by two police type dudes with assault weapons asking me for my valid train pass.
    I have a much bigger and more powerful button
  • White DogWhite Dog Posts: 5,343 Officer
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Who are you, the post police?

    And once again, what does that have to do with the OP? Why don't you comment on it? "Mexico" sounds like another post you should start instead of trying for a derail.
    The White Dog.........R.I.P..........1996 - June 2nd, 2011
  • jamesfreddycjamesfreddyc Posts: 960 Officer
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    In response to Niki Haley getting a new firearm for Christmas, someone said "what a great carry weapon" it is.... and my response to that is for self defense purposes, you likely won't ever need 15 rounds. I carry with a 5-round magazine. It fits comfortably in my pocket. It's highly unlikely I will ever use it, and even more unlikely that I'll be in an extended gun battle where I need 15 rounds.

    My view is opposite. It appears to me that violent crime being committed by multiple assailants is on the rise.
    B2B/Direct Sales Opportunity for SaaS/Cloud Software.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?43261-B2B-Direct-Sales-Opportunity
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 40,379 AG
    And the militarization of LEOs continues.

    Why is it any different than Shotguns and other rifles they already carry.

    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • jamesfreddycjamesfreddyc Posts: 960 Officer
    phlatsphil wrote: »
    I carry with a 5-round magazine.

    It's highly likely that under stress your 5 shots might not be effective. Then what?

    http://www.c-ville.com/knock-out-victims-of-brutal-downtown-mall-assault-want-arrests-and-answers-from-police/#.UsHBivs2F4C
    B2B/Direct Sales Opportunity for SaaS/Cloud Software.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?43261-B2B-Direct-Sales-Opportunity
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,443 AG
    Just another step in making it us Vs. them in the militarization of the police, community policing is hard enough without our street cops looking like they are patrolling Afghanistan.
  • mississippi macmississippi mac Posts: 4,222 Captain
    i grew up in spain while franco was "the boss" and after the king resumed his powers...

    franco created the "guardia civil" which to this day are famous for their hats...but i digress...
    the guardia always traveled in pairs with what appeared to me as m-14's or something similar...
    they were never stationed in their home province...they walked a beat in town or they had the motorcycle guardia which were about the same difference as a state trooper...

    i met several guardia and got to know some as friends...
    they were/are peaceful men...
    the only time i ever saw the guardia get rough was while breaking up a bar room brawl or intervening in a domestic dispute...

    the guardia were the guardia and were just part of the background...most carried candies to hand out to children....

    they were a lot more polite than most american cops or state troopers despite the auto-rifle and semi-auto 9mm pistols...

    only the old men, old enough to have been around when franco came to power held them in contempt....

    as you were.......
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Real White Dog

    if you can't catch a fish...catch a buzz....
    #12976, joined 8-17-2002
  • sjm1582002sjm1582002 Posts: 4,364 Captain
    The mayor is correct.

    America is not a battleground with roving bands of heavily armed guerillas challenging the authority of local governments. Besides, didn't that great "conservative champion", Willard Romney, sign into law one of the most prohibitive laws regarding firearms during his regrettable one term as governor?

    Don't "assault weapons" require a "state permit" to own in Mass? How could the police there possibly be concerned?

    I bet 30-30 lever actions would be sufficient.

    2013: Fewest police deaths by firearms since 1887

    "....The annual report from the nonprofit National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund also found that deaths in the line of duty generally fell by 8 percent and were the fewest since 1959.........The number of firearms deaths fell 33 percent in 2013 and was the lowest since 1887...........Since 2011, officer fatalities across all categories have decreased by 34 percent, and firearms deaths have dropped by 54 percent.........."

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/30/2013--fewest-police-deaths-by-firearms-since-1887
  • phlatsphilphlatsphil Posts: 14,632 AG
    It's highly likely that under stress your 5 shots might not be effective. Then what?

    http://www.c-ville.com/knock-out-victims-of-brutal-downtown-mall-assault-want-arrests-and-answers-from-police/#.UsHBivs2F4C

    "They" usually turn out to be cowards. Unless "they" are armed, "they" will scatter like cockroaches when the first shot is fired.

    But you're right about the stress. Under duress, unless we've had LEO or tactical training, most of us may not perform very well. That "might" be a reason to carry a larger capacity magazine, but I like carrying a smaller one because it fits in my pocket, because I don't have to always have my shirt-tail out to conceal a holstered weapon clipped to my belt.

    Aim small, miss small. :)
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 21,694 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    Why is it any different than Shotguns and other rifles they already carry.

    What other rifles?
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,301 Admiral
    sjm1582002 wrote: »
    The mayor is correct.

    America is not a battleground with roving bands of heavily armed guerillas challenging the authority of local governments. Besides, didn't that great "conservative champion", Willard Romney, sign into law one of the most prohibitive laws regarding firearms during his regrettable one term as governor?

    Don't "assault weapons" require a "state permit" to own in Mass? How could the police there possibly be concerned?

    I bet 30-30 lever actions would be sufficient.

    2013: Fewest police deaths by firearms since 1887

    "....The annual report from the nonprofit National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund also found that deaths in the line of duty generally fell by 8 percent and were the fewest since 1959.........The number of firearms deaths fell 33 percent in 2013 and was the lowest since 1887...........Since 2011, officer fatalities across all categories have decreased by 34 percent, and firearms deaths have dropped by 54 percent.........."

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/30/2013--fewest-police-deaths-by-firearms-since-1887

    And in a city like Boston, a 12 gauge pump would be more effective and less of a danger to the public
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 40,379 AG
    What other rifles?

    It depends on the city. L.A and others carry a Urban police rifle similar to the AR. I think Miami allows the AR-15. I know some carry Remington 700s. I honestly could not list the varieties that might be out there in all the departments across the country.

    Do you not want them to have any rifles or is it the AR that upsets you is my question?

    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Team SabatageTeam Sabatage USA, USA, USAPosts: 13,014 AG
    Boston police should be able to do what the people of Boston want them to do. They elected the Mayor, now the mayor must weigh if this decision will effect his chances at re-election.
    Strap me in, tie me down and roll me a bone, I'm getting on an airplane and I'm flying home...
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 21,694 AG
    cadman wrote: »
    It depends on the city. L.A and others carry a Urban police rifle similar to the AR. I think Miami allows the AR-15. I know some carry Remington 700s. I honestly could not list the varieties that might be out there in all the departments across the country.

    Do you not want them to have any rifles or is it the AR that upsets you is my question?

    They should not have weapons that unavailable to local citizens.
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