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ORV destruction on public lands is not "heritage" or "tradition"

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  • davidfloridadavidflorida Posts: 1,141 Officer
    If you are too lazy to walk or paddle that far (or cant), there is usually a beautiful boardwalk at the visitor center for you to use.

    /QUOTE]
    If you want to come drag a deer in august and september let me know .will see how lazy you are.
    If you can't hear it your not listening.
  • TheSnookManTheSnookMan Posts: 430 Deckhand
    I have never seen anyone cleaning up the woods

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
  • oarknotoarknot Posts: 246 Deckhand
    Ive drug out moose through thicker stuff than yall got down here and you whine about a deer no bigger than a dog lmao.

    Ive also never seen a hiker waste space in his pack for a beer, but ive certainly carried out a few empties!
  • TheSnookManTheSnookMan Posts: 430 Deckhand
    OarKnot have you ever been to big cypress? And I don't mean you have drove by it or hiked one time. I mean actual experience.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,860 Captain
    oarknot wrote: »
    Ive drug out moose through thicker stuff than yall got down here and you whine about a deer no bigger than a dog lmao.

    Ive also never seen a hiker waste space in his pack for a beer, but ive certainly carried out a few empties!
    You are full of *****
  • rrbgttrrbgtt Posts: 6,758 Admiral
    Skunk Ape wrote: »
    You are full of *****

    I have to agree.
    From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned bobcat!
  • razorreilly09razorreilly09 Posts: 8,401 Admiral
    oarknot wrote: »

    Ive also never seen a hiker waste space in his pack for a beer, but ive certainly carried out a few empties!

    You search their packs?
  • oarknotoarknot Posts: 246 Deckhand
    Typical retort from a turn key woodsman!
  • TheSnookManTheSnookMan Posts: 430 Deckhand
    OarKnot have you ever been to big cypress? And I don't mean you have drove by it or hiked one time. I mean actual experience

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
  • ok
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • huntsfloridahuntsflorida Posts: 378 Deckhand
    oarknot wrote: »
    Ive drug out moose through thicker stuff than yall got down here and you whine about a deer no bigger than a dog lmao. Ive also never seen a hiker waste space in his pack for a beer, but ive certainly carried out a few empties!

    It's CRYSTAL CLEAR by this post you have NEVER been INTO the HEART of the CYPRESS!
    Capt. Mark Clemons
    Everglades Adventures Inc.
    Alligators Inc.
    Alligators International LLC.
    www.huntsflorida.com
    South Florida's Finest Hunting Safari's for over 25 years for:
    Osceola Turkey, Alligator and Whitetail on over
    75,000 acres of South Florida's most private pristine ranches.

    Alligator Processing in State Certified and Inspected Facility.
    Follow our clients results on Facebook:
    https://www.facebook.com/EvergladesAdventures
  • I can't let this Thread lie down.
    I've been in Big Cypress for bout 40 years. I've seen it all. From Camps at Quaken S Hollow to Joe Lord at Monroe Station.
    I've also worked for the Feds at Big Cypress for 7/8 Years. Been on the Helo Flights for Panther Data and flown Fire Watch.
    I know of what I speak.
    The Hunters are the reason Big Cypress is a Preserve and not a Park. That was Hunters up before Congress screaming for protection from development.
    In the last 15 years it went from a quiet place with folks who had respect for the land to a bunch of Morons that thought it was a Mud Bog area.
    My Hunting areas started looking like a Race Track. Nobody walked anywhere. They drove all day. I've seen Hardwood Hammocks crushed from 6 ft. tall Tractor tires. It was a mess.
    It needed controls of some kind.
    I had a Buggy. Sure was fun, but we parked and walked.
    I'm not against Buggys , it's the only way to access a lot of the area. It should be allowed..with restraint.
    Problem is the Enviormental Groups are using the ORV thing as a reason to shut everything down.
    During the open comment period the word went out to the Anti-Hunting crowd. They sent in Form Letters by the thousands.
    Local Folks sent in letters by the hundreds. Guess who the Feds listened too?
    People that had never been there were making ORV Policy...by mail.
    Never stop the Buggys, But the Old School Hunters are dieing off. Getting to old to do much anymore, or have moved on.
    My self, I have a Camp in Taylor County and go to Big Cypress maybe twice a year but I care about it a lot. That's my Childhood and young Man years your messin with.....

    PS. I've never seen a Hiker or Bird Watcher more than 500 ft. off the Road or Boardwalk. Them Folks don't have a clue about the Cypress unless it's on a Sign beside the road.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • TheSnookManTheSnookMan Posts: 430 Deckhand
    I'm thinking that's the case.... I have asked him twice and no response

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
  • Ex-GladeshunterEx-Gladeshunter Posts: 255 Deckhand
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Yeah, and they have 400 miles of roads, just not 20,000.

    You equating a bunch of drunken rednecks with our military?
    Something tells me you have never been around many orv users.at least not those in the cypress. You get drunk out there and not paying attention you could be setting out there a mighty long time before someone showed up to help. Course that was before shellrock!
  • huntsfloridahuntsflorida Posts: 378 Deckhand
    What's also CLEAR........is the posts by certain individuals on this thread is exactly the mentality of the individuals we are dealing with when it comes to issues in the Big Cypress. They are CLUELESS about the Big Cypress and the issues that surround it!
    Capt. Mark Clemons
    Everglades Adventures Inc.
    Alligators Inc.
    Alligators International LLC.
    www.huntsflorida.com
    South Florida's Finest Hunting Safari's for over 25 years for:
    Osceola Turkey, Alligator and Whitetail on over
    75,000 acres of South Florida's most private pristine ranches.

    Alligator Processing in State Certified and Inspected Facility.
    Follow our clients results on Facebook:
    https://www.facebook.com/EvergladesAdventures
  • I respect Cyclist's questions.
    He asked some good ones that Folks need to know about...But sometimes you can tell UPS delivered from his Cali Connection today...
    I'm good...mostly
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • wilburzwilburz Posts: 1,023 Officer
    I have never been inside it on a buggy or on foot but only drove through it on my motorcycle.

    The issue is people littering and tearing the place up, lighting fires, throwing stolen vehicles out there. Just like it was up in ONF. They shut that place down to less than a hundred miles of trails. All the locals hated it. They will do the same thing to Corbitt area in a few years too! It only takes a few idiots to ruin it for everyone! Where most sensible people have respect for the land there are always a few that like to driver over every 4 to 8 inch tree and smash it to the grown and do donuts until they flip there crap over. It sad but true!

    Happiness is a belt fed weapon!

  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,340 AG
    So anyone that uses an orv is a drunken redneck? You are an arrogant a$$hole.

    That I am too many.

    No, as Mr. Turner River indicates, there are respectful users and then there are not. Those that are not, appear to have ruined it for those that are.

    Cali connection. :rotflmao

    Naw, just ate up with **** sometimes.

    Serious question, there are 400 miles of roads legal. They get you in to where you need to be to hunt, or are they just window dressing?
  • oarknotoarknot Posts: 246 Deckhand
    Ive actually only been there a few times (6 or 7) and i did a lot more swimming than I did walking lol, but the atv trails are like varicose veins running every direction like a disease. Ive found the same thing at other wmas like corbett and three lakes too.

    I grew up in northern ontario and hunted terrain that is far more difficult that what you have here, and spent my childhood watching wealthy americans fly up in pontoon planes shooting the first moose they saw in 'my' woods, taking the head and cape and leaving the carcass to rot. When we took game, we ate every bit of it (even the nasty parts and organs you guys ditch) and brought it home in our canoes or on skiis- the hard way on our backs. We used nothing to aide us but our own strength and tough constitution. I was taught a different tradition than you and brought up on principals that foster apprecation and gratitude.

    Crushing every thing in your path in order to park next to your tree is neither traditional nor sensible, and should be seen as a testament to this horrible culture of wanton waste of 'our' natural resouces.

    I love the woods and I hope to enjoy them for a long time to come so I'm prepared to do anything I can to keep them accessible as well as preserved. Our woods have a hard enough time dealing with invasives and pollution, the last thing they need is to be rolled over and crushed by a lazy hunter in a jeep.
  • Skunk ApeSkunk Ape Posts: 3,860 Captain
    oarknot wrote: »
    Ive actually only been there a few times (6 or 7) and i did a lot more swimming than I did walking lol, but the atv trails are like varicose veins running every direction like a disease. Ive found the same thing at other wmas like corbett and three lakes too.

    I grew up in northern ontario and hunted terrain that is far more difficult that what you have here, and spent my childhood watching wealthy americans fly up in pontoon planes shooting the first moose they saw in 'my' woods, taking the head and cape and leaving the carcass to rot. When we took game, we ate every bit of it (even the nasty parts and organs you guys ditch) and brought it home in our canoes or on skiis- the hard way on our backs. We used nothing to aide us but our own strength and tough constitution. I was taught a different tradition than you and brought up on principals that foster apprecation and gratitude.

    Crushing every thing in your path in order to park next to your tree is neither traditional nor sensible, and should be seen as a testament to this horrible culture of wanton waste of 'our' natural resouces.

    I love the woods and I hope to enjoy them for a long time to come so I'm prepared to do anything I can to keep them accessible as well as preserved. Our woods have a hard enough time dealing with invasives and pollution, the last thing they need is to be rolled over and crushed by a lazy hunter in a jeep.
    I bet you drink your own **** to save water too,eh?
  • TheSnookManTheSnookMan Posts: 430 Deckhand
    oarknot wrote: »
    I agree, the only ORVs that should be allowed on public land or waters are HIKING BOOTS and PADDLES.

    I'm prepared to do anything I can to keep them accessible.

    You are doing the opposite of making it accessible

    Banning ORVs and only allowing hiking in the big cypress is not making it accessible. Again big cypress is 720,000 acres(2,400 square miles) how is hiking only making it accessible? Its not.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
  • [QUOTE=oarknot; i did a lot more swimming than I did walking lol, but the atv trails are like varicose veins running every direction like a disease. Ive found the same thing at other wmas like corbett and three lakes too.



    Crushing every thing in your path in order to park next to your tree is neither traditional nor sensible, and should be seen as a testament to this horrible culture of wanton waste of 'our' natural resouces.

    I love the woods and I hope to enjoy them for a long time to come so I'm prepared to do anything I can to keep them accessible as well as preserved. Our woods have a hard enough time dealing with invasives and pollution, the last thing they need is to be rolled over and crushed by a lazy hunter in a jeep.[/QUOTE]

    Well...Your Sorta right, Kinda.
    BUT, I gaurntee you've NEVER been swimming in Big Cypress, Unless you've got 1 arm and 1 leg cause the Gators ate the rest.
    I think you don't know what your talking about and you sent in a form Letter from up North.....
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • FLDXTFLDXT Posts: 2,521 Captain
    oarknot wrote: »
    Ive actually only been there a few times (6 or 7) and i did a lot more swimming than I did walking lol, but the atv trails are like varicose veins running every direction like a disease. Ive found the same thing at other wmas like corbett and three lakes too.

    I grew up in northern ontario and hunted terrain that is far more difficult that what you have here, and spent my childhood watching wealthy americans fly up in pontoon planes shooting the first moose they saw in 'my' woods, taking the head and cape and leaving the carcass to rot. When we took game, we ate every bit of it (even the nasty parts and organs you guys ditch) and brought it home in our canoes or on skiis- the hard way on our backs. We used nothing to aide us but our own strength and tough constitution. I was taught a different tradition than you and brought up on principals that foster apprecation and gratitude.

    Crushing every thing in your path in order to park next to your tree is neither traditional nor sensible, and should be seen as a testament to this horrible culture of wanton waste of 'our' natural resouces.

    I love the woods and I hope to enjoy them for a long time to come so I'm prepared to do anything I can to keep them accessible as well as preserved. Our woods have a hard enough time dealing with invasives and pollution, the last thing they need is to be rolled over and crushed by a lazy hunter in a jeep.

    Maybe you should return to "Your" woods and not worry about "our" woods down here. We have similar stories about know-it-all Yankees that come down here and try to tell us what and how to do something, never works out to well. I'm sure you are a wild boar hunter also...
  • oarknotoarknot Posts: 246 Deckhand
    Drinking **** does more harm than good and a couple iodine tablets prevents you from having to do that.

    Gators are pretty **** scary, but so is spending the night in a tree because wolves smelled your kill, or fending off a bear. It's still not a very strong supporting argument to allow the rampant orv destruction ive seen out there. If accessibility is an issue maybe you should plan on spending a night and roughing it and dragging it out in the morning. Give it a cool bath the meat will be fine.

    Instead of using a weak ad hominem attack to protect your coveted jeeps, use your brains and your strength to get the job done instead. What are you going to do when you blow out your oil pan? Cry to mommy? Call in the national guard to save you?

    Look, if you've got something I'm missing either invite me out to show me your perspective better, or use your internet prowess on a "sportsman" website.
  • Well..Waters low right now, And the Skeeters aren't real bad. Should be good Hiking.
    Come on down and we'll take a walk....As long as you agree to come back in August to take another one when the water is high and the Skeeters are out.
    Talk is cheap. Boots on the Ground is where you earn your money.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • oarknotoarknot Posts: 246 Deckhand
    I'm good for it. The mozzies are gone right now but they could lift you by your shirt in august.
  • oarknotoarknot Posts: 246 Deckhand
    Just heard something i never thought id hear in florida woods... *crickets*
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    I can't let this Thread lie down.
    I've been in Big Cypress for bout 40 years. I've seen it all. From Camps at Quaken S Hollow to Joe Lord at Monroe Station.
    I've also worked for the Feds at Big Cypress for 7/8 Years. Been on the Helo Flights for Panther Data and flown Fire Watch.
    I know of what I speak.
    The Hunters are the reason Big Cypress is a Preserve and not a Park. That was Hunters up before Congress screaming for protection from development.
    In the last 15 years it went from a quiet place with folks who had respect for the land to a bunch of Morons that thought it was a Mud Bog area.
    My Hunting areas started looking like a Race Track. Nobody walked anywhere. They drove all day. I've seen Hardwood Hammocks crushed from 6 ft. tall Tractor tires. It was a mess.
    It needed controls of some kind.
    I had a Buggy. Sure was fun, but we parked and walked.
    I'm not against Buggys , it's the only way to access a lot of the area. It should be allowed..with restraint.
    Problem is the Enviormental Groups are using the ORV thing as a reason to shut everything down.
    During the open comment period the word went out to the Anti-Hunting crowd. They sent in Form Letters by the thousands.
    Local Folks sent in letters by the hundreds. Guess who the Feds listened too?
    People that had never been there were making ORV Policy...by mail.
    Never stop the Buggys, But the Old School Hunters are dieing off. Getting to old to do much anymore, or have moved on.
    My self, I have a Camp in Taylor County and go to Big Cypress maybe twice a year but I care about it a lot. That's my Childhood and young Man years your messin with.....

    PS. I've never seen a Hiker or Bird Watcher more than 500 ft. off the Road or Boardwalk. Them Folks don't have a clue about the Cypress unless it's on a Sign beside the road.

    You make the most sense of all the posts on the other side of the issue from Cyclist. You said one thing in particular that is a key point.
    I'm not against Buggys , it's the only way to access a lot of the area. It should be allowed..with restraint.
    And here's the rub.... The "restraint" is just not there. Not at Webb...Corbett...or anywhere else. I'm not going to broad brush paint everyone as "Drunken Rednecks out tearing up the place"....but to say that it doesn't exist....regularly on all the WMA's that allow ORV use diminishes your credibility reducing it to
    " say anything to help our position" and anyone who spends time in the woods knows it.

    I don't know how you go about regulating this to be able to keep the destruction from happening...I'm thinking in a perfect world we would not even need to discuss this....Maybe a policy of confiscating all ORV's found operating off of legal trails and held in a secure compound till after hunting season....maybe the thought of not having their buggy to hunt out of will keep them in compliance......hard to know.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 21,265 AG
    FLDXT wrote: »
    We have similar stories about know-it-all Yankees that come down here and try to tell us what and how to do something, never works out to well. ..

    Yeah, Florida knows all it needs to about managing its woods....and running elections! :rotflmao
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • floridacrackrfloridacrackr Posts: 603 Officer
    oarknot wrote: »
    Ive actually only been there a few times (6 or 7) and i did a lot more swimming than I did walking lol, but the atv trails are like varicose veins running every direction like a disease. Ive found the same thing at other wmas like corbett and three lakes too.

    I love the woods and I hope to enjoy them for a long time to come so I'm prepared to do anything I can to keep them accessible as well as preserved. Our woods have a hard enough time dealing with invasives and pollution, the last thing they need is to be rolled over and crushed by a lazy hunter in a jeep.

    No offense but there is no possible way you saw a fraction of the Big Cypress in 6 or 7 trips unless you flew it.

    If this is the case then i would encourage you to join the cause and help support Lyle and the Big Cypress Sportsman Alliance.
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