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Well it's starting - we are getting sector separation shoved down our throat,

Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 5,258 Moderator
one piece at a time

SOUTHEAST FISHERY BULLETIN

(Gulf of Mexico)

FB13-071

727-824-5305

August 26, 2013

NOAA Announces Approval of an Exempted Fishing Permit for a Pilot Study by Gulf of Mexico Headboats Evaluating an Allocation-Based Management System

NOAA Fisheries has issued an exempted fishing permit (EFP) to the Gulf of Mexico Headboat Cooperative (Cooperative). The Cooperative consists of headboat owners/captains. The Cooperative intends to evaluate the efficiency of an allocation-based management system, using a limited number of headboats in a two-year pilot study.

This study, to be conducted in the Gulf of Mexico, is intended to (1) assess whether such a system can better achieve conservation goals established in the Fishery Management Plan for the Reef Fish Resources of the Gulf of Mexico, (2) evaluate the effectiveness of a more timely electronic data reporting system, and (3) evaluate the potential social and economic benefits of an alternative management strategy for the headboat segment of the recreational fishing sector within the Gulf of Mexico reef fish fishery.

The Cooperative requested an EFP that authorizes their members to harvest a specific amount of red snapper and gag at any time during the 2014 and 2015 fishing years. Their allocation is based on the Cooperative participants' 2011 aggregate landings of red snapper and gag as a percentage of the total landings in that year for each species. Those percentages were applied to the expected red snapper and gag recreational catches allowed for 2014 and 2015.

The Cooperative was allocated 148,089 pounds whole weight (ww) for red snapper, based on the proposed red snapper recreational catch of 5.39 million pounds ww. The Cooperative was also allocated 42,114 pounds gutted weight (gw) of gag, based on the current gag recreational catch of 1.519 mp gw. These weights will be translated into numbers of fish.

NOAA Fisheries has authorized a maximum of 20 headboats to participate in the Cooperative. The Cooperative currently consists of 11 headboats, and it may add additional vessels before the 2014 fishing year begins.

All vessels in the program will be required to purchase, install, activate, and maintain a Vessel Monitoring System. A participating captain will "hail out" as the vessel leaves the dock, and "hail in" at least one hour prior to landing, alerting law enforcement and port agents to his/her return. Landings will be reported at the end of the trip using electronic reporting software approved by NOAA Fisheries, and allocations will be monitored through the NOAA Fisheries Southeast Regional Office's Catch Share Program Web site.

Academic researchers, in collaboration with the Cooperative, intend to conduct a socio-economic study of the anticipated effects of the change in headboat cooperative management using currently available data sources. Simultaneously, they will develop additional survey instruments to gather economic data for an analysis of the effects of the pilot project on Cooperative vessels after its first and second years. Data collection will emphasize impacts of the pilot project.
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Replies

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,286 AG
    Not being a smart ***, but what do you perceive as the downside to this? Their catch is already in the rec share, what is wrong with good data(yes I am well aware of the mistrust of our federal agencies).

    They have X amount of #'s to be caught and maybe will show that CPUE isn't as high as thought...

    Or maybe higher..

    Just my .02
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,589 Captain
    The Gulf Council tabled the issue of Sector Separation about this time last year, deferring it until after the assessment. Well, the assessment has come and gone, yet they still have not picked it back up to address the overwhelming rejection of the concept by Gulf recreational anglers. Instead, they slide it into this regionalization document as "suballocation between for-hire and private recs", carefully avoiding the term SECTOR SEPARATION.

    Now this headboat IFQ program is moving forward. Since the MSA requires a referendum on these types of things, they will probably find a loop hole to avoid the referendum like they did up in the NE a few years back.

    Gifting exclusive access to our Public Trust Resource to a select few individuals/corporations is just plain wrong ANUMBER1, any which way you slice and dice it, especially when they refuse to improve the data as mandated by Congress. I would bet that if they used viable, accurate data, that all of this catch share justification would melt away when the light of day was shown upon it.

    Capt. Thomas J. Hilton
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    seems to me if we were to put a real good bunch of camera crews out there on head boats, Commercial boats and some private boats we could get some facts about the snapper industry and interviews with the Captains.. we have to have management and we have to have limits.. just wish we could get a balance.. just a fun fish to catch and eat.. I hope you guys do all you can to make the best of it.
  • Al_hmsAl_hms Posts: 200 Officer
    This has potential to be really bad for recreational anglers. There are really logical applications for transferrable quota systems in the commercial fishery where you can price out the market value of a pound of fish. In the rec sector you're pricing out the value of recreational anglers. This can't do anything but make fishing more expensive and less accessible to the regular joe rec fisherman. I support good fisheries management, but this is a tragically bad idea.
  • Lets face it, these are the same people who spend two or three years talking about a general category swordfish permit then have a Florida allowable landing of zero fish!! Also brought to you by the guys who almost shut down shark fishing because someone caught one Dusky shark a few years ago and maybe , yes maybe landed it! They then put the catch at 3500 fish!

    This system is broke and needs a major overhaul.

    The only reason for the zero fish limit was to protect the inflated value of a handgear swordfish permit.
    When did NMFS start protecting the value of a commercial permit that was inflated by the market conditions? They didn't inflate it, they don't have to protect it.

    Broke, I tell you the system is flat broken!
  • DI 310DI 310 Posts: 40 Deckhand
    Maybe I am missing something but I really cannot see why this this would be so great for the headboat guys. IF the 20 boats got only about 145,000 lbs that would seem to me that would be a lot less than they are catching in the shortened seasons anyway. The only advantage would be to fish whenever they wanted. Now if these boats were dual permitted and inter sector trading is allowed , that is a different story.
  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 12,086 AG
    That's who started pushing this.
    I was at the Sector separation meeting in Tampa when this started and the duel permit guys were the ones pushing it(with their EDF backers)
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • DI 310DI 310 Posts: 40 Deckhand
    Hopefully the council will not approve the inter sector trading side of this. As I said with only 145,000 lbs to catch and inter sector trading not allowed , it seems to me they could have shot themselves in the foot. On the other side if it is approved makes you wonder if all the restaurant lobby will raise hell when a good portion of the commercial quota will be used on the recreational side because more money can be made by trading/ selling and there are no fish to buy.
  • Last ChanceLast Chance Posts: 116 Officer
    Inter-sector Trading is about the worst idea I have seen the council start talking about. I read the information book on it the Council released. When you start talking about winners and losers in a plan something is very wrong. Commercial fisher decided who they will lease too and who they will not lease too. The shares will be leased at market prices. This will run charter prices high and the dual-permitted will have a huge advantage by not having to lease shares their prices can stay down. Just another way to drive fishermen off the water.
  • Got TA GoGot TA Go Posts: 2,608 Captain
    When you start talking about winners and losers in a plan something is very wrong. Commercial fisher decided who they will lease too and who they will not lease too. The shares will be leased at market prices. This will run charter prices high and the dual-permitted will have a huge advantage by not having to lease shares their prices can stay down. Just another way to drive fishermen off the water.

    Not to mention the Share holders that have boats that Charter and that Comm fish. They will be double dipping since they will lease themselves shares of what they already "own". And of course they will jack the price of the charter up to "offset" the expense of having to lease the shares...from themselves.....OR they will low-ball the charter price to drive the other charter boats off the water by pricing them out of the market.

    Either way....for the current share-holders.... it's win/win.

    Rob
    www.gottagofishinginkeywest.com


    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.
  • Last ChanceLast Chance Posts: 116 Officer
    you are right Rob just another unfair tool.

    In testimony at the Gulf Council meeting even some of the commercial fishermen are even speaking against Inter-sector trading, Even one of the big IFQ holders does not like it.

    One thing that has council and fishermen rattled at this meeting is the new MRIP data collection shows that Gulf fishermen overfished the quota by 3 million lbs. MRIP says that part of the reason for this better estimate on landings is that they now have started taking data later in the afternoons and now stay 6 hrs at ramps instead of 4 like they were doing before. We are now waiting on Council to decide to use this data or not to say if they will set a fall season. That will be decided in full council tomorrow.

    The only good thing I have heard out of this meeting so far is that, Tom Adams-RFA and myself were appointed to the Ad Hoc Red Snapper IFQ Advisory Panel. Now at least the recreational fishery has someone to represent them instead of all commercial fishermen on the AP.

    JoinRFA.org
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 393 Deckhand
    The solution is quite simple actually.

    There are ~2.5 million licensed rec anglers in FL. We just don't obey. Let the LEO and bureaucrats sort that one out. Overwhelmed. Time for us to take a stand - and yes, stupid laws are just that - stupid.

    Throw spears my way - don't care. But deep down you all know this is the only way we can stop the insanity occurring on daily basis in OUR fisheries.

    BTW...FU crabtree.
  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    The fines are now large enough to fund more enforcement... They would love mass revolt... They will use that info to spend 10X (or 100X if needed) the current budget on enforcement (& it will be a money maker). Crime & Punishment are now Big Business... & Business is GOOD...
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 393 Deckhand
    Ah, no.

    Your are making an invalid assumption that they have enough LEOs to enforce to begin with - they don't. Some would refer to it as being behind the power curve. No way they make up for it as the shear mass - and laws of large numbers - are in OUR favor. We need to stop being good little serfs. What I mean is that the regulations are derived from data that is nothing short than that taken from a Ouija board. Unless you/we make a stand, it is going to be gone - all of it.

    Need I remind you:



    No one is going to have the $$$ to pay anyway.
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    Add to this that they are estimatong we caught 7 million pounds of snapper in just 28 days, I am done with them.

    We have never caught 7 miillion pounds of snapper...in fact you have to add a few ywars together to get to 7 million pounds

    It is obvious that NMFS does not care about the recreational fishermen...
    It is time we stopped caring about them...

    Go fish...be responsible but screw them..
    And refuse to answer any question from anyone who is going to give the data to NMFS......

    This is not only wring it is near criminal.....

    They are inventing data to rame catch shares down our throats...

    I am officially a civil disobeident poacher....

    SCREW NMFS and SCREW the COUNCIL...I will no longer participate in the process and will resign my advisory post as soo as I can.
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    Typiclese wrote: »
    Ah, no.

    Your are making an invalid assumption that they have enough LEOs to enforce to begin with - they don't. Some would refer to it as being behind the power curve. No way they make up for it as the shear mass - and laws of large numbers - are in OUR favor. We need to stop being good little serfs. What I mean is that the regulations are derived from data that is nothing short than that taken from a Ouija board. Unless you/we make a stand, it is going to be gone - all of it.

    Need I remind you:



    No one is going to have the $$$ to pay anyway.

    I am with you and will challenge every citation in court.
    Tie them up on the wster and in court and their enforcement goes down even more
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 393 Deckhand
    Capt Bob,

    So good to see you again. I miss your rock solid statistical analysis.

    Just for fun, here are some examples of stupid laws, still on the books, I doubt no one follows, yet alone enforces:

    Florida: Penalty of death by hangin' for stealing a horse.

    FL, again: If an elephant is parked at or tied to a parking meter, the parking fee must be paid just as if a car had parked there (must be something to do with Ringling circus in Sarasota??)

    FL, again: Having sexual relations with a porcupine is illegal

    FL, again: It is considered an offense to shower naked

    CT: In order for a pickle to officially be considered a pickle, it must bounce

    CT, again: No one may use a white cane, unless they are blind

    CT, again: You can be stopped by the police for biking (bicycle) over 65 miles per hour

    Alabama: putting salt on a railroad track may be punishable by death

    Alabama, again: illegal to wear a funny fake mustache to church

    Michigan: Beavers could be fined up to $10,000 per day for building unlicensed dams

    Ohio: it is illegal to get a fish drunk

    Cali: No vehicle without a driver may exceed 60 miles per hour

    Arkansas: a man can legally beat his wife, but not more than once a month

    Arizona: donkeys cannot sleep in bathtubs

    (Crazy Laws; Hyman D.)
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    You know I have been working behind the scene and trying to keep a low profile...but these last 2 issue clearly show that the council process is broke and NMFS is hell bent on ramming catch shares down our throats...

    What their arrogant assez fail to realize...
    They are only sucessful with our cooperation and blind compliance...

    there are 6 million anglers across the gulf and less than 1000 LEO (not counting the USCG).....that is 6000 anglers per LEO....not to mention the adde stress on their resources for safety at sea issues...
    National Association of Recreational Anglers - Add Your Voice
    https://www.facebook.com/RecAnglers?notif_t=page_new_likes
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 393 Deckhand
    This is where we need to be...where we belong....it is our right, it is our resource



    But they are fighting against us every step of the way - with no course for redress within *their* system.
    Tis a sad time.
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 393 Deckhand
    They've got us outgunned on K-street, that's for certain.

    Was wondering where you went. It goes to show that presenting a solid, cogent, well researched argument with solid analysis to support goes nowhere simply because they wish to not let it go anywhere. See Capt Tom's comment about the meeting in TX where he got the "So when is the punchline" comment again. These fools think its a joke, a game. If this repeated demonstration of their utter contempt for the citizens does not garner more outrage from us, then we deserve what we are eventually going to get.
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 393 Deckhand
    Dbl post. apologies
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,589 Captain
    OK - I am back from the dog and pony show.

    EDF has recently hired and appointed a handler for the CFA front men - her name is Kristen McConnell, and you can see more here; http://www.edf.org/people/kristen-mcconnell

    Ms. McConnell accompanied her EDF/CFA subordinates to the League City meeting a couple of weeks ago, the TPWD Commissioners meeting last week, and of course the Gulf Council meeting this week.

    Her job is to fulfill the EDF mission as stated on their progress report;

    "The work we are doing with a core group of for-hire recreational fishermen, whose movement we helped develop and continue to support, called SOS (Save Our Sector/CFA), will be important to continue to move catch shares forward in the for-hire sector of the recreational red snapper fishery.
    SOS now has over 200 supporters across all five Gulf states. This membership, which includes boat owners and crew members, reflects a significant portion of the 1,100 licenses in the for-hire fleet. The group's work was a key factor in the Gulf Council's October decision to consider separation of the recreational sector into for-hire and private angler sectors in the generic Annual Catch Limit/Accountability Measures amendment, which will be subject to public hearings in either December or January and likely voted on next summer. The amendment will form the foundation for a for-hire IFQ and harvest tags for private anglers."

    I am sorry to report that my good friend Mike Jennings' conversion to the dark side is complete - Darth Cowboy has the hate flowing freely and draws upon this hate to increase his power as President of the CFA. He no longer denies that Sector Separation was about implementing IFQs in the Gulf recreational Fisheries, and in fact announced to the Council that The Charter Fisherman's Association is planning on presenting their plan for a Charter IFQ Cooperative at the next GC meeting. So long, dear friend.

    Of course, Scott Hickman was there - you know, the same Hickman who several years ago claimed that "sector separation has NOTHING to do with catch shares, all we want is "accountability". Well, of course that statement has been proven to be totally false, as has most of the CFA claims, and is why you will notice they no longer post up on forums such as this.

    It is also **** that these EDF-funded subcontractors (CFA) , while supporting the NMFS' Regionalization Plan, ignore the data that shows that the entire Texas CFH fleet supposedly landed enough snapper for 16 CFH vessels in 2012 and previous years. What about the other 180 or so federally-permitted charter vessels in Texas?

    If this regionalization plan goes into effect, then the % of allocation that Texas CFH captains would be based on this egregiously flawed historical data. They couldn't care less, as long as they, as stated in item #1 of the SOS Plan - "SECURE THEIR ALLOCATION".

    There was an Alabama CFH IFQ Cooperative proposal on the agenda, which by the way listed Dr. Greg Stunz as a Research Partner. When I contacted Dr. Stunz about this, he didn't know what I was talking about. They also listed the State of Alabama as a research partner. I find it appalling that any state agency endorses a plan that privatizes our Public Trust Resources, as IFQs/Catch Shares certainly do.

    Inter-sector trading was also on the docket - you know, the concept of allowing the commercial red snapper barons to lease some of their quota to the Gulf recreational for-hire captains for their clients to catch.

    Why would recreational anglers be required to pay for quota from the commercial sector when these same commercial operators were not required to purchase this same quota? That violates National Standard 4, which states: If it becomes necessary to allocate or assign fishing privileges among various United States fishermen, such allocation shall be (A) fair and equitable to ALL such fishermen. Looks to me that this concept is ILLEGAL.

    How is it “fair and equitable” to gift access to our fish to a select few commercial fishermen FOR FREE, yet provide mechanisms to charge recreational fishermen for these same fish, with the monies going to commercial fishermen for their personal profit? If the commercial red snapper IFQ fat cats were paying resource rent to the nation, that would be a much different story, but they aren't.

    Amendment 28 which deals with changing the allocation % from 49% rec/51% comm is on the table. I support the idea of increasing the commercial red snapper quota to their original amount (51% of 9.12 mp) then giving any future increases to the recreational sector. Of note, is that the CFA is on record as being AGAINST increasing the recreational % - extremely strange, since it would be in the best interests of THEIR CLIENTS, the Gulf recreational fishermen to do so. Just shows that they are simply following the script laid out by their EDF handlers, and they couldn't care less how it affects the other Gulf recreational fishermen.

    The states need to take control of the data as Louisiana has done - that is our only way to salvation.

    Capt. Thomas J. Hilton
  • Last ChanceLast Chance Posts: 116 Officer
    Capt Tom,

    That was a good testimony you gave yesterday afternoon. I just hope they paid a little attention to it.

    I have been listening to the show and sounds like once again not much is getting done.They have but Regional Management off until the Oct. meeting because of action 3. They did not give a preferred before the final hearing of the way to set state quota and they still are not sure how to set quota for the states. This afternoon, the meeting starts back at 20 minutes to 3. Inter- Sector Trading and Allocation are still on the agenda.
  • Last ChanceLast Chance Posts: 116 Officer
    This afternoon the Council put sector-separation on the agenda for the Oct meeting and some Council members are even pushing it before the discussion starts back. Harlon Pearce even tried to put an alterative in the Allocation document He wanted any quota over 9.12mp would be split 50% commercial 50% Charter For-Hire boats.This was voted down but shows which way he is going. Johnny Greene stated he wants to hold a meeting with the "fish barons" to see if they would help the charter fleet by giving some quota to them for the Days at Sea program that will push sector separation and IFQs into the charter fleet. Scoping papers on Allocation and Inter-sector trading will be moving forward. Seems like the battle is getting bigger for recreational fishermen to keep our fishing rights.

    JoinRFA.org
  • DI 310DI 310 Posts: 40 Deckhand
    Yea , Johnny Greene is really representing the recreational anglers for Alabama isn't he. What a joke. I really don't think the "fish barons" will give any of their quota up, but they will sell / lease to the highest bidder.
  • TypicleseTypiclese Posts: 393 Deckhand
    It will not end until they reduce the Rec share to <20% and then for that you will be forced to pay for it. Another tax.

    It's noble some are trying to fight these guys on their turf and in their arena. However, they are too well organized, funded and have too many pols in their back pocket. I'm struggling to figure out why this is such a difficult concept to comprehend. You will not have redress in their world - ever. Time to change the axis of the assault and move the fight elsewhere. This must be asymmetric. They're throwing in their snakes, time for us to throw ours in as well.
  • Al_hmsAl_hms Posts: 200 Officer
    DI 310 wrote: »
    Maybe I am missing something but I really cannot see why this this would be so great for the headboat guys. IF the 20 boats got only about 145,000 lbs that would seem to me that would be a lot less than they are catching in the shortened seasons anyway. The only advantage would be to fish whenever they wanted. Now if these boats were dual permitted and inter sector trading is allowed , that is a different story.

    It isn't about where it starts, it is about where it goes. The pilot starts with 145k lbs, but once it exands that is an organized part of the rec sector with the capacity to lobby better than most individual fishermen.
  • Last ChanceLast Chance Posts: 116 Officer
    The 11 headboats in the EFP will receive 148,089lbs of Red Snapper and 42,114lbs of Gags. It's odd how everything I heard about this permit, gags were never mentioned. Did anyone notice that on the NOAA news release it says that this project will be monitored by NOAA Fisheries SE Regional Office Catch Share Program Web Site? I guess they are back to spending money on catch shares that Congress told them they could not do.
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    "Asking Congress or Fisheries to decide anything is like asking Miley Cyrus to keep her tongue in her mouth.. " .. just saying the truth...
  • Riptide31Riptide31 Posts: 478 Deckhand
    We need to start an advertising campaign to boycott those head boats.
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