19 fire fighters confirmed dead in Arizona

2»

Replies

  • FirmanjaxFirmanjax Posts: 382 Deckhand
    Im sorry, i just get sick and tired of when folks get killed how the media grandizes them. To call these hot shot elite fireman seems to demean the real fire fighters. Elite is crash and salvage at the airport or at the 1000 mega watt power plant. Just because they jump to me means absolutely nothing. To thing that those shelters will save in a mass conflag is ****. To call a fire fighter equiped with a shovel or axe elite is like calling the salvation army an army. They died, it happens....what are all you people, druids?


    You show your ignorance with every word you speak on here. You could not hang 5 min with those guys doing what they do. These guys put their lives on the line everyday they go to work to help save people and property for those like you. This is the thanks they get for giving their lives in that effort. Sorry it doesn't meet your expectation for news worthiness. I have fought woods fires here in florida. They are completely different than out west. Either way its one of the toughest types of firefighting there is. There is not enough money to make me want to go do that out there. As a firefighter I have a lot of respect for what those guys do. To say it demeans other firefighters just goes to show you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Thats the problem these days. The general public has no idea what firefighters actually do. They listen to the media and think we suck up all the resouces and its our fault that the city has no money. At least thats how it is in this town. They b*tch and gripe about a pension I might get but they dont give a crap about the fact someone could get killed any day trying to save their life or even their home. Dont even get me started on the politicians. These guys died doing their job. Was it preventable? Probably but only if we are willing to give up saving millions in property damage. The mentallity towards wildland fires needs to change. Tree huggers get all up in arms when a forest catches fire and they think it should be put out ASAP. The problem with that is that fire is natures way of keeping itself clean. You can either burn a little bit now or burn a whole lot later on. Either way its gonna burn at some point. The longer you wait the more devistating it will be.

    Give these guys the credit they deserve. They died WORKING FOR YOU. The taxpayer. Sorry for the rant.
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    We are talking about people that were burned alive attempting to serve the greater good. Try to keep that in mind.

    Where they burned alive of did they suffocate?

    IMHO forest fires are normal and good, trying to stop them in a manner goes against the "greater good".
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    Firmanjax wrote: »
    You show your ignorance with every word you speak on here. You could not hang 5 min with those guys doing what they do. These guys put their lives on the line everyday they go to work to help save people and property for those like you. This is the thanks they get for giving their lives in that effort. Sorry it doesn't meet your expectation for news worthiness. I have fought woods fires here in florida. They are completely different than out west. Either way its one of the toughest types of firefighting there is. There is not enough money to make me want to go do that out there. As a firefighter I have a lot of respect for what those guys do. To say it demeans other firefighters just goes to show you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Thats the problem these days. The general public has no idea what firefighters actually do. They listen to the media and think we suck up all the resouces and its our fault that the city has no money. At least thats how it is in this town. They b*tch and gripe about a pension I might get but they dont give a crap about the fact someone could get killed any day trying to save their life or even their home. Dont even get me started on the politicians. These guys died doing their job. Was it preventable? Probably but only if we are willing to give up saving millions in property damage. The mentallity towards wildland fires needs to change. Tree huggers get all up in arms when a forest catches fire and they think it should be put out ASAP. The problem with that is that fire is natures way of keeping itself clean. You can either burn a little bit now or burn a whole lot later on. Either way its gonna burn at some point. The longer you wait the more devistating it will be.

    Give these guys the credit they deserve. They died WORKING FOR YOU. The taxpayer. Sorry for the rant.

    If you aint got water and if you aint got D4s, D5s, D6s.....you aint an elite firefighter, your a fool.

    You want to be elite and jump, be a Ranger....Not a punk park ranger.

    I think they were tree huggers too.... So maybe I am ignorant, but I think tree huggers suck.
  • MadScientistMadScientist Posts: 3,402 Officer
    Where they burned alive of did they suffocate?

    IMHO forest fires are normal and good, trying to stop them in a manner goes against the "greater good".

    Being surrounded by raging wildfire, I'd guess if any suffocated on super-hot smoke, they were the lucky ones.

    Your argument is weak.
  • FirmanjaxFirmanjax Posts: 382 Deckhand
    If you aint got water and if you aint got D4s, D5s, D6s.....you aint an elite firefighter, your a fool.

    You want to be elite and jump, be a Ranger....Not a punk park ranger.

    I think they were tree huggers too.... So maybe I am ignorant, but I think tree huggers suck.


    So you think you have to have water to fight fire. You are one those idiots I've been to with 3 guys watching a 2 ft patch of grass smoldering from a ciggarette waiting for us to get there and put water on it. They are astonished when we just stomp it out.
    You are completely missing the point. The point is 19 people died in the line of duty and you are making a mockery of it. How about we just come **** on your grave when you die.
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,124 AG
    300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    Druids.
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    Firmanjax wrote: »
    So you think you have to have water to fight fire. You are one those idiots I've been to with 3 guys watching a 2 ft patch of grass smoldering from a ciggarette waiting for us to get there and put water on it. They are astonished when we just stomp it out.
    You are completely missing the point. The point is 19 people died in the line of duty and you are making a mockery of it. How about we just come **** on your grave when you die.

    You can remove any side of the triangle you care to with any equipment you care to use.

    I like moving earth by the thousands of yards, I like dozers over hand tools. If somebody starts a fire and you cant get water on it you will lose, have you forgot the lessons of 9/11?
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    I point is there is too much... Oh they were heros.

    Too much dude and not enough Sir. Hardcore Dude! lets ride bikes!
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    Some times we kill people to save them, or in this case should have removed the forest to save it.

    Silly hippys.
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    All this BS aside, my issue isnt with the departed, although I feel they were poorly led. My issue is with the media that jumps to lable people elite when they died, yet wont write one article about how crappy BHO is or how poorly he leads our once great country.
  • Larry MacLarry Mac Posts: 5,465 Admiral
    Where they burned alive of did they suffocate? .
    GMAFB --- one of the most ridiculous statements-- if not THE most-- I have read on this forum. Certainly the most insensitive.
  • Salty GatorSalty Gator Posts: 1,814 Captain
    It is truly sad that these 19 men lost their lives.

    RIP
  • RockhaulersRockhaulers Posts: 250 Officer
    I like to know where the failure point was, I know they do not use scott packs or other standard equipment. I think they falsely belive those tents will protect them in during a flash over. I want to know as a point of science if they just gasses up and out of if they were cooked....If they were cooked off they of course would have wasted their lungs anyways first, but is they just choked out they may not have cooked.

    Its bad stuff....Sometimes dying is hard.
  • hooknlinehooknline Posts: 5,301 Admiral
    I know the area really well, i know someone there and he lost his house, and was friends with one of the jumpers.
    The area is rugged, with a lot of short but steep draws that run alot of different directions. There's not been a burn there in at least 10 years that I know of. It wouldnt take much wind for a fire to get behind them, circle up and run up a ridge line to them unnoticed. None of the other political bs matter. Fight the fire, don't fight the fire. If they don't stop natural fires in that area, and use prescribed burns, then they burn uncontrolled for hundred and hundreds of square miles.
    These guys were doing what they do best and what they love to do. and died trying to protect the houses and families in that small town. A town that when I was there was nothing more that a small trading post.
    Have some respect and keep the bs out of this for a few days. Thanks
    If I say something that offends you, please let me know so I can say it again later

    1322773200_30_1_USD_3.50_default.png
  • Grady-ladyGrady-lady Posts: 5,277 Admiral
    Firmanjax wrote: »
    ...These guys died doing their job. Was it preventable? Probably but only if we are willing to give up saving millions in property damage. The mentallity towards wildland fires needs to change. Tree huggers get all up in arms when a forest catches fire and they think it should be put out ASAP. The problem with that is that fire is natures way of keeping itself clean. You can either burn a little bit now or burn a whole lot later on. Either way its gonna burn at some point. The longer you wait the more devistating it will be.


    The whole idea is to put out a little fire before it becomes a big fire. Controlled burns are not popular but necessary in places, especially in Fl where the 'green' will burn, unlike much of the west. What the tree-huggers have done is handicap the firefighters by sectioning off whole areas as 'wilderness' with severe restrictions on the way fires can be fought there.

    Mr gl is a retired wildland firefighter with the USFS. He is still called out on details when things get bad, and he's out there now, in Phoenix. Thankfully he fights fires with a radio these days. Our youngest son is a firefighter near DC. Fighting structure fires is a dangerous job. Fighting a wildfire in mountainous terrain can be especially dangerous.

    This is a terrrible tragedy.

    I don't know the details but I do know the scenario, as a firefighter no doubt you know it far better than me. They could have done everything right except been in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are several other hotshot crews working fires in the area who did not die yesterday.

    Some have the impression that these guys are 'cowboys', ya hoo, gung ho, march to the head of the fire. For the most part they are young, strong, well-trained and do this on a seasonal basis...there are hotshot crews that are all Indian, and some have females on them. It's mostly hot, dirty, grungy work, and they do have aircraft support. They work the 'cool side' (meaning not a direct attack at the head) of the fire, building firebreaks, sometimes along the flanks, sometimes well out ahead of the fire. The firebreaks are not necessarily intended to stop the flames, their purpose is to provide a secure line along which to set a backfire that will creep up the ridge against the wind and meet the head or flank, so that starved of fuel and/or oxygen the fire will burn itself out. With a dramatic and sudden wind switch, such as a thunderstorm collapsing, the main fire can top the ridge or the backfire itself can turn into a headfire. No one can outrun a wind driven fire on a hill. No lungs can survive a massive blast of superheated air that can carry sparks and flames for long distances, jump rivers and superhighways, spawn fire tornadoes...no man made firebreaks alone will even slow it down. You hope you can pinch it off, and pray for rain.

    I know you know all this, and any errors are mine alone because mr gl is not here to correct or edit.

    Firmanjax wrote: »
    Give these guys the credit they deserve. They died WORKING FOR YOU. The taxpayer. Sorry for the rant.

    That's well said, and you've earned the rant. We bought a metal sign for our youngest son, the structure firefighter, that shows a fireman in full gear, with a child in his arms, a burning building in the background...and it says, "Real heroes don't need capes." Those nineteen young men may not have rescued any children but they went in to do the job they've trained for, they've done many times, and they loved...heroes, they are.:USA
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Grady-lady wrote: »
    The whole idea is to put out a little fire before it becomes a big fire. Controlled burns are not popular but necessary in places, especially in Fl where the 'green' will burn, unlike much of the west. What the tree-huggers have done is handicap the firefighters by sectioning off whole areas as 'wilderness' with severe restrictions on the way fires can be fought there.

    Mr gl is a retired wildland firefighter with the USFS. He is still called out on details when things get bad, and he's out there now, in Phoenix. Thankfully he fights fires with a radio these days. Our youngest son is a firefighter near DC. Fighting structure fires is a dangerous job. Fighting a wildfire in mountainous terrain can be especially dangerous.

    This is a terrrible tragedy.

    I don't know the details but I do know the scenario, as a firefighter no doubt you know it far better than me. They could have done everything right except been in the wrong place at the wrong time. There are several other hotshot crews working fires in the area who did not die yesterday.

    Some have the impression that these guys are 'cowboys', ya hoo, gung ho, march to the head of the fire. For the most part they are young, strong, well-trained and do this on a seasonal basis...there are hotshot crews that are all Indian, and some have females on them. It's mostly hot, dirty, grungy work, and they do have aircraft support. They work the 'cool side' (meaning not a direct attack at the head) of the fire, building firebreaks, sometimes along the flanks, sometimes well out ahead of the fire. The firebreaks are not necessarily intended to stop the flames, their purpose is to provide a secure line along which to set a backfire that will creep up the ridge against the wind and meet the head or flank, so that starved of fuel and/or oxygen the fire will burn itself out. With a dramatic and sudden wind switch, such as a thunderstorm collapsing, the main fire can top the ridge or the backfire itself can turn into a headfire. No one can outrun a wind driven fire on a hill. No lungs can survive a massive blast of superheated air that can carry sparks and flames for long distances, jump rivers and superhighways, spawn fire tornadoes...no man made firebreaks alone will even slow it down. You hope you can pinch it off, and pray for rain.

    I know you know all this, and any errors are mine alone because mr gl is not here to correct or edit.




    That's well said, and you've earned the rant. We bought a metal sign for our youngest son, the structure firefighter, that shows a fireman in full gear, with a child in his arms, a burning building in the background...and it says, "Real heroes don't need capes." Those nineteen young men may not have rescued any children but they went in to do the job they've trained for, they've done many times, and they loved...heroes, they are.:USA

    Thanks for writing this Grady Lady.

    Good blog on wildland firefighting.

    http://wildfiretoday.com/

    http://wildfiretoday.com/2013/06/30/arizona-yarnell-fire/
    133cbf2b243368b1ddb2f591a1988076--beach-posters-florida-travel.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.